Fundy, fundy-lite, evangelical, mainstream Christian

[Austin]

I still believe in a lot of things I used to. I'm still Christian. I have no idea what I want to be. My parents rarely if ever asked,a nd if they had I wouldn't have known what to tell them. Living like I have no future doesn't encourage me to plan for t,you know? And I dare not hope for anything beyond minimum-wage-slave part time. Even those places hire everyone else before me.

Every last one of my siblings lives at home. Only my older sister has a job, and I think she's the only one with any real hope of having one. She has a dream of living in a converted vehicle, but I doubt it will ever actually happen.

I really appreciate everyone's caring and trying to get me to do form-type things and having hope for me that I haven't had in almost as long as I can remember. I am truly sorry but I can't talk about that aspect anymore. It upsets me too much. I'm crying right now. It's bringing back feelings of total failure as a person and making me feel scolded for it, though I'm sure that's not your intentions. I'm, er, not emotionally stable. I may have a disorder but I do not have the money for a diagnosis. Please, please, let's not talk about this.

I'd far prefer to talk about the guy, daring to go outside waht I was taught, and whether or not my family is fundy, and how fundy they are. I like talking about that--I had to keep it secret for so many years, contributing to my sense of shame.

I cross-posted with you, and thought about erasing it, but I decided against it because I don't think indulging you in this is helpful at all. I understand that you have issues, but I also understand - from your many, many posts on the subject - that you are unhappy in your situation and would like to have a better future. It will not just happen. You have to put one foot in front of the other, whether that's on the front of getting help for your emotional instability issues or getting an education or anything else. There are resources, but they won't come to you. Others can only help you so much. You've got to do some of the lifting yourself. Many, many people have overcome great obstacles, and you sound like you have more advantages than some of them, so I think you can do it, too.

Now if I'm upsetting you, then I apologize, as it is not my intent. But I also will not pretend that you should just sit around pining for some guy when your life is passing you by while you waste your life under your parents' roof. I will stop responding to you at all, if that's what you want, but I won't indulge your fantasies. Feel free to put me on "ignore".

[Rosa]

Having problems in coursework and not being able to find a job, those would cause just about anyone to get depressed. If you're crying over not being able to take the next step forward, maybe your actual next step is finding a counselor to talk to - the school probably has them (and if you're failing, your academic advisor is pretty likely to recommend one for you anyway).

[masagoroll]

What do your parents treat you like now? Would they kick you out for any reason? Do they still tell you what to do? Do you think that THEY want you (and their other grown children) to move out?

Don't blow up "becoming a grownup" in your mind and make it big and scary. You will learn along the way. That's how everyone does it!

[Guest Anonymous]

I still believe in a lot of things I used to. I'm still Christian. I have no idea what I want to be. My parents rarely if ever asked,a nd if they had I wouldn't have known what to tell them. Living like I have no future doesn't encourage me to plan for t,you know? And I dare not hope for anything beyond minimum-wage-slave part time. Even those places hire everyone else before me.

Every last one of my siblings lives at home. Only my older sister has a job, and I think she's the only one with any real hope of having one. She has a dream of living in a converted vehicle, but I doubt it will ever actually happen.

I really appreciate everyone's caring and trying to get me to do form-type things and having hope for me that I haven't had in almost as long as I can remember. I am truly sorry but I can't talk about that aspect anymore. It upsets me too much. I'm crying right now. It's bringing back feelings of total failure as a person and making me feel scolded for it, though I'm sure that's not your intentions. I'm, er, not emotionally stable. I may have a disorder but I do not have the money for a diagnosis. Please, please, let's not talk about this.

I'd far prefer to talk about the guy, daring to go outside waht I was taught, and whether or not my family is fundy, and how fundy they are. I like talking about that--I had to keep it secret for so many years, contributing to my sense of shame.

You have a bad habit of bringing things up and then saying you don't want to talk about them. That doesn't go over well here. Here's the thing - either you need to do this stuff or you need to not whine about it anymore. Your parents fucked up and that's on them. What happens next is up to you.

Hell, I will put my money where my mouth is. You want out of there? You need somewhere to go? You can stay with me. You will need to work enough where you are now to pay your parents for your car and insurance so you can take it with you, but do that and then throw your stuff in it and come on over. I've got a spare bedroom with its own bathroom on its own level of the house, even.

Jobs aren't super easy to come by where I live but if you have a car and are willing to work a cash register you can get one. In the mean time I will friend you with my real facebook account so that you know I'm not an axe-murderer and I know you're not a 55 year old male troll. I'll give you my cell number, too. We'll draw up some kind of agreement to cover both of our asses and when you find a job you can pay your part of the utilities and a little rent. You can continue to stay here if you and me get along or look for your own digs when you get established. I will neither baby you nor get all up in your business. I hope you're not allergic to dogs.

No drugs or smoking allowed in my house, don't steal my shit or be mean to my dogs, and I don't care if you drink as long as it's not to excess. Clean up after yourself and help out if I decide to go on a cupboard polishing spree. (Never happened so far, but I suppose it could.)

So, you have at least one option that isn't staying where you are. You can PM me if you want. I understand if you choose not to. Moving to another state might not be what you want - but maybe knowing you don't have to stay where you are will help you move forward with the stuff you need to do.

[AnnoDomini]

Oh my goodness. PMing you.

[Austin]

Lissar, you are my hero.

[AnnoDomini]

Having problems in coursework and not being able to find a job, those would cause just about anyone to get depressed. If you're crying over not being able to take the next step forward, maybe your actual next step is finding a counselor to talk to - the school probably has them (and if you're failing, your academic advisor is pretty likely to recommend one for you anyway).

I have tutors and I talk to the school counselor (though I don't know what an advisor is), who mostly seems to tell me to stop doing things but not telling me how except that one time she said to replace negative thoughts with thoughts of good things about me, but that's another thing--I was brought up in the doctrine that anything good comes from God, the Spirit working in me, and I can't take credit for it. But anything bad comes from my sinful nature and I have to take responsibility for that. So her method suggested taps into yet nother issue needing work.

[AnnoDomini]

What do your parents treat you like now? Would they kick you out for any reason? Do they still tell you what to do? Do you think that THEY want you (and their other grown children) to move out?

Don't blow up "becoming a grownup" in your mind and make it big and scary. You will learn along the way. That's how everyone does it!

Um, they try to treat me like an adult. My mother threatened to kick me out once, for something utterlly subjective and impossible-to-predict like 'making her feel like a bad parent'. I can tll when they're disapproving of my wardrobechoices, and sometimes my mother 'suggests' I wear something more 'modest' to be a 'good example to the little girls' who are already modesty-obsessed, and are allowed to wear things I'm not. I don't think they want any of their children to move out. I don't think they are trying to keep us at home though.

[Rosa]

An advisor is usually what a college calls the person you go to for academic help - planning, getting tested for a learning disability, "How do I add this class I want that i don't have the prereqs for?" The counselor sounds like what I was thinking of - a psychologist or therapist. I'm sorry the sessions aren't helping - If the one you have isn't helping enough, maybe she can refer you to someone who can? Or someone who can prescribe medication? Sometimes that's the kickstart people need to get going.

It is really poisonous to live with someone you have friction with and have to pretend there's no friction. The absolute best thing I ever saw happen for my little brother was how rowdy he & my mom's (verbal) fights got, after my dad finally moved out - I never got to be that way as a teen because my dad would have violent temper tantrums if we riled him up, so I had to learn to express anger without damage through other relationships that weren't as safe or resilient as the one between my brother and my mom.

There's two ways to do this: you can stay and wring whatever resources you're able to out of them, until you have a degree and a job and can get the hell out in one step. You have to do it dispassionately as you can, without feeling emotional indebtedness or getting more enmeshed in their drama. Or, if being there is so draining that you can't progress in that atmosphere, you've got to get out and do it on your own, without the resources they can offer but also without the cost.

[Guest Anonymous]

Lissar, you are my hero.

I'm not that cool, unfortunately. I jumped the gun. I thought my partner would be on board, but he requested time to think about it. Totally reasonable of him, totally not cool of me to offer without making 100% sure we were on the same page.

I apologize AD, we'll keep PMing while we sort it out if that's okay with you.

[AnnoDomini]

The willingness to offer still counts as much as ever, and for that I thank you. We'll see if this works out and if not, it's not like I could have up and left right away anyway. Gotta make some money, finish my course, maybe talk to my parents about it.

[AnnoDomini]

What characterizes a fundy? A fundy-lite? An evangelical? A mainstream Christian? Like, what tips a fundy-lite to a fundy, an evangelical to a fundy-lite, a mainstream Christian to an evangelical? And which category seems to have the most followers in the US?

ETA: Yes, there's no 'one' set of beliefs/actions that make a fundy, fundy lite, etc, but specific examples would really help.

[finleeport]

I like to know that myself as well. Glad you brought this up.

[valsa]

My definition of fundie is pretty in-line with the one from FSTDT:

A usually religious person or entity characterized by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses instead of valid argument.

It should be noted that one can be religious--even a fundamentalist--but not actually attain the vaunted status of "fundie," which needs that special touch only people fitting stereotypical caricatures can provide. Additionally, religion is technically not even a pre-requisite for this, although blind adherence to its ideologies (and those of politics) is perhaps the #1 source of fundies in the universe. Rigid, arrogant, "know-it-all-and-confidently-force-it-on-everyone-else" authoritarian strains of both amplify the propensity to fundyism, while more moderate, "this-seems-like-a-good-idea-but-might-be-wrong, so-let's-not-be-total-jackasses-about-it" varieties can keep it in check or even undermine it.

It's important to note with this definition that Christians, even Evangelical Christians, may not be fundies. Also, someone can be a fundie without being religious at all (there are atheist fundies, environmentalist fundies, etc)

Frankly, I don't think there's such a thing as "fundie-lite". To me, that's like trying to say someone is "racist-lite" or "homophobic-lite" or "puppy kicker-lite"

[QAF_Rocks]

I tend to conflate fundamentalists and evangelicals. I know someone can be evangelical and not fundamentalist, but I have a hard time seeing differences between conservative evangelicals and fundies.

[debrand]

It is hard sometimes to know the difference. I have friends who believe that women should go to college, wear pants and have jobs. They also believe that homosexuality is a sin, creationism should be taught in school and wives should be submissive to husbands. Many of them think that feminism is bad. Courtship is often discussed as is virginity before marriage. I call them fundie lite because they aren't as extreme as The Duggars but they are just as dangerous.

[holierthanyou]

AnnoDomini: You already asked that question (and received 4 pages of answers, including links) on the thread YOU started back here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3196

[AnnoDomini]

That was about me, not the definition of fundyism and related levels of practicing Christianity. Though I am curious if you still feel I was brought up fundy.

[FloraDoraDolly]

It's subjective, but you can tell a lot by the womenfolk...

I. Clothing/Appearance:

A. Fundie woman= Long dress, skirt, or jumper. Long hair, which may or may not be permed. Headscarf optional. Bonus points if she and her daughters are wearing matching jumpers. She equates pants and short hair with crossdressing.

B. Fundie lite woman= Probably wears a dress or skirt to church, but for the most part she looks like any soccer mom you might see at the mall. Under closer inspection, you'll notice she doesn't wear "immodest" clothing, such as low rise jeans or tank tops.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might wear a dress to church, but then again she might wear jeans.

II. Family Size:

A. Fundie woman= She has a full quiver, or at least she aspires to birth a full quiver. She does not believe in any kind of birth control. Even natural family planning is a no-no.

B. Fundie lite woman= Anti-abortion, but is OK with at least some forms of birth control. She may have higher than the average number of kids, but rarely more than six.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= May be pro-life or pro-choice. The maximum number of kids is 3-4.

III. Educational Views:

A. Fundie woman= Homeschooling is the only acceptable way to educate children; even Christian schools are too worldly. Some of the more liberal fundies might attend a very strict Christian college such as Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian College, but in general higher education of any kind is considered worldly and unnecessary.

B. Fundie lite woman= She might homeschool her children or she might send them to a Christian school. If she lives in a conservative community, she might even send her kids to the local public schools. But if so, she'll be forever on the lookout for evil influences such as Halloween pumpkins or Judy Blume books in the library. And if you're a teacher and her kid is in your class, watch out when you get to that unit about dinosaurs in the science book! Higher education is encouraged because Christians need to take over and turn the country back to its original family values!

C. Maintream Christian woman= Her kids go to public school or perhaps a very liberal Christian school. Their views on higher education are indistinguishable from the general, secular population.

III. Careers and Work:

A. Fundie woman= Does not work outside the home, but might have a home-based business. Her husband might also be working at home since he isn't supposed to have a boss or authority figure whose views are different from his own.

B. Fundie lite woman= Believes a mom should be at home with her children but will work if she absolutely has to.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might stay at home with her children while they're small, but otherwise has a job or career.

IV. Music:

A. Fundie woman= Listens to hymns and classical music only. Any music with drums is forbidden, even if it's gospel or contemporary worship music.

B. Fundie lite woman= Lets her teenagers listen to Christian rock and even some mainstream music, but will turn it off if she finds the lyrics objectionable.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= They play U2 songs at her church.

V. Politics:

A. Fundie woman= Votes according to her husband's instructions because she isn't sure that women should even be allowed to vote. And of course, they never vote for female candidates because there are no woman presidents in the Bible. If the Republican candidate is too moderate (i.e. Mitt Romney, John McCain), then they support the Constitution Party or some other fringe candidate.

B. Fundie lite woman= She's in her front yard right now as we speak, taking down her Michele Bachmann signs.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= She cares more about other issues than a candidate's religious beliefs. She and her husband do not always agree on the issues and each one votes for the candidate of their own choice.

Note: In most of the above categories, evangelical is akin to fundie lite.

[holierthanyou]

You already got your answer. Here is a direct quote on someone answering you from the old thread:

There is a spectrum of practice in fundamentalism. There are a LOT of fundamentalists who aren't quiverfull or patriarchal, and families will often take on some aspects of a movement and not others. This blog post at Love, Joy, Feminism gives a good overview of the differences

http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/201 ... stian.html

Check out the link they gave you (again). It answers your question. Stop trolling here. Take a look at how your last thread ended (in particular page 4 where everyone is on to your bullshit), take a minimum six month vacation from FJ and really look at yourself deeply in real life, and then decide whether it is wise to keep posting for more attention. You have a pattern. Break it.

Edited to Add:

Though I am curious if you still feel I was brought up fundy.

Wow, I'm shocked you are demanding to bring the attention more directly to you and your family.

I don't give a rat's ass about you or your upbringing. Quit fucking talking.

[ladypuglover]

It's subjective, but you can tell a lot by the womenfolk...

I. Clothing/Appearance:

A. Fundie woman= Long dress, skirt, or jumper. Long hair, which may or may not be permed. Headscarf optional. Bonus points if she and her daughters are wearing matching jumpers. She equates pants and short hair with crossdressing.

B. Fundie lite woman= Probably wears a dress or skirt to church, but for the most part she looks like any soccer mom you might see at the mall. Under closer inspection, you'll notice she doesn't wear "immodest" clothing, such as low rise jeans or tank tops.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might wear a dress to church, but then again she might wear jeans.

Yea! I'm C.

II. Family Size:

A. Fundie woman= She has a full quiver, or at least she aspires to birth a full quiver. She does not believe in any kind of birth control. Even natural family planning is a no-no.

B. Fundie lite woman= Anti-abortion, but is OK with at least some forms of birth control. She may have higher than the average number of kids, but rarely more than six.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= May be pro-life or pro-choice. The maximum number of kids is 3-4.

C again but I wanted 6 and only had 5 but not for religious reasons. I just like kids.

III. Educational Views:

A. Fundie woman= Homeschooling is the only acceptable way to educate children; even Christian schools are too worldly. Some of the more liberal fundies might attend a very strict Christian college such as Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian College, but in general higher education of any kind is considered worldly and unnecessary.

B. Fundie lite woman= She might homeschool her children or she might send them to a Christian school. If she lives in a conservative community, she might even send her kids to the local public schools. But if so, she'll be forever on the lookout for evil influences such as Halloween pumpkins or Judy Blume books in the library. And if you're a teacher and her kid is in your class, watch out when you get to that unit about dinosaurs in the science book! Higher education is encouraged because Christians need to take over and turn the country back to its original family values!

C. Maintream Christian woman= Her kids go to public school or perhaps a very liberal Christian school. Their views on higher education are indistinguishable from the general, secular population.

C again.

III. Careers and Work:

A. Fundie woman= Does not work outside the home, but might have a home-based business. Her husband might also be working at home since he isn't supposed to have a boss or authority figure whose views are different from his own.

B. Fundie lite woman= Believes a mom should be at home with her children but will work if she absolutely has to.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might stay at home with her children while they're small, but otherwise has a job or career.

Uh-oh I'm a B but not really as my choice is for me only and not reflected onto other women. So maybe a C-.

IV. Music:

A. Fundie woman= Listens to hymns and classical music only. Any music with drums is forbidden, even if it's gospel or contemporary worship music.

B. Fundie lite woman= Lets her teenagers listen to Christian rock and even some mainstream music, but will turn it off if she finds the lyrics objectionable.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= They play U2 songs at her church.

Can't find me in there as they play hymns at church and I don't care what my teens listen too as long as it is not too loud or pisses me off. So a little bit of B but not too much.

V. Politics:

A. Fundie woman= Votes according to her husband's instructions because she isn't sure that women should even be allowed to vote. And of course, they never vote for female candidates because there are no woman presidents in the Bible. If the Republican candidate is too moderate (i.e. Mitt Romney, John McCain), then they support the Constitution Party or some other fringe candidate.

B. Fundie lite woman= She's in her front yard right now as we speak, taking down her Michele Bachmann signs.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= She cares more about other issues than a candidate's religious beliefs. She and her husband do not always agree on the issues and each one votes for the candidate of their own choice.

C again.

Hmmm.

[Buzzard]

See, I dont know. I think about Michelle Bachman and she's not "mainstream" anything. She has to be fundie lite but she doesnt fit the mold above.

[pixydust]

It's subjective, but you can tell a lot by the womenfolk...

I. Clothing/Appearance:

A. Fundie woman= Long dress, skirt, or jumper. Long hair, which may or may not be permed. Headscarf optional. Bonus points if she and her daughters are wearing matching jumpers. She equates pants and short hair with crossdressing.

B. Fundie lite woman= Probably wears a dress or skirt to church, but for the most part she looks like any soccer mom you might see at the mall. Under closer inspection, you'll notice she doesn't wear "immodest" clothing, such as low rise jeans or tank tops.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might wear a dress to church, but then again she might wear jeans.

II. Family Size:

A. Fundie woman= She has a full quiver, or at least she aspires to birth a full quiver. She does not believe in any kind of birth control. Even natural family planning is a no-no.

B. Fundie lite woman= Anti-abortion, but is OK with at least some forms of birth control. She may have higher than the average number of kids, but rarely more than six.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= May be pro-life or pro-choice. The maximum number of kids is 3-4.

III. Educational Views:

A. Fundie woman= Homeschooling is the only acceptable way to educate children; even Christian schools are too worldly. Some of the more liberal fundies might attend a very strict Christian college such as Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian College, but in general higher education of any kind is considered worldly and unnecessary.

B. Fundie lite woman= She might homeschool her children or she might send them to a Christian school. If she lives in a conservative community, she might even send her kids to the local public schools. But if so, she'll be forever on the lookout for evil influences such as Halloween pumpkins or Judy Blume books in the library. And if you're a teacher and her kid is in your class, watch out when you get to that unit about dinosaurs in the science book! Higher education is encouraged because Christians need to take over and turn the country back to its original family values!

C. Maintream Christian woman= Her kids go to public school or perhaps a very liberal Christian school. Their views on higher education are indistinguishable from the general, secular population.

III. Careers and Work:

A. Fundie woman= Does not work outside the home, but might have a home-based business. Her husband might also be working at home since he isn't supposed to have a boss or authority figure whose views are different from his own.

B. Fundie lite woman= Believes a mom should be at home with her children but will work if she absolutely has to.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= Might stay at home with her children while they're small, but otherwise has a job or career.

IV. Music:

A. Fundie woman= Listens to hymns and classical music only. Any music with drums is forbidden, even if it's gospel or contemporary worship music.

B. Fundie lite woman= Lets her teenagers listen to Christian rock and even some mainstream music, but will turn it off if she finds the lyrics objectionable.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= They play U2 songs at her church.

V. Politics:

A. Fundie woman= Votes according to her husband's instructions because she isn't sure that women should even be allowed to vote. And of course, they never vote for female candidates because there are no woman presidents in the Bible. If the Republican candidate is too moderate (i.e. Mitt Romney, John McCain), then they support the Constitution Party or some other fringe candidate.

B. Fundie lite woman= She's in her front yard right now as we speak, taking down her Michele Bachmann signs.

C. Mainstream Christian woman= She cares more about other issues than a candidate's religious beliefs. She and her husband do not always agree on the issues and each one votes for the candidate of their own choice.

Note: In most of the above categories, evangelical is akin to fundie lite.

Thanks Flora! Interesting, the way that I was raised is Fundie lite on everything that you have! (we did have our own brand of freaking crazy going on!)

[AnnoDomini]

Let's see where my family lies...

Clothing/appearance: B, fundy-lite.

Family size: A, fundy.

Educational views: A, fundy.

Careers and work: A, fundy (though no reservations about the husband working for a nonChristian).

Music: B turning into the A it's been for most of my life, and even condemning hymns as 'horribly apostate', and now it's closer to C though worldly music isn't often played in 'common areas' of the house.

Politics: B, fundy-lite

[Austin]

Merging. . .