Tullian Tchividjian

[Jezzable]

I believe OPC is Kevin Swanson's denomination. More conservative is probably not the word - more whacked.

[Howl]

On 3/19/2016 at 6:48 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

I think when it comes to "ministry," there's nothing that can keep you out of the limelight permanently. Ted Haggard, who was caught using meth and consorting with male prostitutes, has a new church, which means that homosexuality isn't the nuclear bomb one would think it is. If a minister goes to prison for whatever reason, he can just start a prison ministry.

Ted Haggard is interesting.  He has come out and said that basically, he's bisexual, but has chosen to (now) stay faithful to his wife.  Who knows if he'll continue to do that, but yes, he's got another church going.  He now supports gay marriage as civil law, although he says the church is still one man/one woman. 

Quote

...Haggard sees a distinction between biblical law and civil law, and says "we need to be careful not to inculcate [biblical law] into civil law."

Moving on to Tullian.  One article had a FB photo of him with his mom and holding someone's baby.  He had on a T shirt, and I must say, he looked ripped (at least his arms).  Yup, he was rocking some some seriously tatted up guns that you only get from hours in the gym.  This conveyed an element of body consciousness that made me think he's not unaware of how he comes across to women. 

[Jezzable]

Quote

This conveyed an element of body consciousness that made me think he's not unaware of how he comes across to women. 

It's more than an element. He's obsessed with how he comes across to everyone, not just women.  He hired a Crisis Management firm to help clean up his recently tarnished image: 

[GenerationCedarchip]

On 3/19/2016 at 7:58 PM, Mothership said:

This church is full of all kinds of hypocrisy.  

I'm wondering what the parishioners who did not consider Tillian conservative enough wanted.  Coral Ridge is a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America), which is the most conservative presbyterian denomination.  They split with the majority of Presbyterians about 50 years ago over the ordination of women (and though they would never admit to it, in some cases likely the integration of the church as well).

They are the fundie (I wouldn't even say fundie-lite) brand of Presbyterians.  Women cannot serve in any capacity other than supporting secretarial staff and some music staff.  They can only teach sunday school to children under the age of 5.

The PCA is kind of an interesting patchwork because you do have some churches that are very fundie and much like you describe, but there's a wide variety in practice. I'd say PCA runs fundie-lite to fundie with a fair amount of variety among presbyteries and even among individual churches. OPC, RPCUS and some of the other smaller Presby denominations run way more conservative overall than PCA.  PCA doesn't ordain women or let them serve as elders, but they are allowed to be deacons(not all churches allow female deacons) and to teach Sunday school to children. Women can teach women-only Sunday school, but not mixed adult classes in most PCA churches, but with the kids, you can definitely teach children over age 5. I once taught 12 year olds in a PCA church and no one batted an eye.

 

[Howl]

10 hours ago, Jezzable said:

It's more than an element. He's obsessed with how he comes across to everyone, not just women.  He hired a Crisis Management firm to help clean up his recently tarnished image: 

So where's the money coming from for THAT?  Wouldn't a higher use be to pay child support?  I'm sure the PR team is telling him to lay low for now while they lay out the timeline for his come-back strategy.  Gosh, in the meantime, maybe he'll have to work for a living.  

If there are even more sexual improprieties waiting to bubble up, he'll have to go the prayhab/rehab route and admit himself somewhere for sex addiction treatment and comeback all chastened - faux humbled and faux repentant. 

[FundieFarmer]

1 hour ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

The PCA is kind of an interesting patchwork because you do have some churches that are very fundie and much like you describe, but there's a wide variety in practice. I'd say PCA runs fundie-lite to fundie with a fair amount of variety among presbyteries and even among individual churches. OPC, RPCUS and some of the other smaller Presby denominations run way more conservative overall than PCA.  PCA doesn't ordain women or let them serve as elders, but they are allowed to be deacons(not all churches allow female deacons) and to teach Sunday school to children. Women can teach women-only Sunday school, but not mixed adult classes in most PCA churches, but with the kids, you can definitely teach children over age 5. I once taught 12 year olds in a PCA church and no one batted an eye.

 

Yup. You've also got the straight up independent Reformed "Presbyterian" churches, that aren't under a denomination because they want the freedom to be more Reformed, and then the actual RPCNA, ARP, etc. PCA looks wild and fun compared to some of the more Orthodox and Reformed churches I've run across...not to mention EPC, and PCUSA being on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Presbyterian governance in terms of denominational differences is a very interesting tree.

Here's a denominational family tree from the ARDA if you're interested. It has flaws, but it's a good overview. And here's another that incorporates the relationships with the smaller, more conservative Reformed denominations. 

[Coconut Flan]

In the good to know category I found out our local Presbyterian Church is Orthodox Presbyterian.  I would  have always guessed it was the more liberal branch.  I've never attended and now I never will.

[formerlegalist]

There's a whole hell of a lot more

 

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/11/29/survivor-of-tullian-tchividjians-alleged-clergy-sexual-abuse-goes-public-with-her-story-part-1/

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/11/29/survivor-of-tullian-tchividjians-alleged-clergy-sexual-abuse-goes-public-with-her-story-part-2/

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/11/29/survivor-of-tullian-tchividjians-alleged-clergy-sexual-abuse-goes-public-with-her-story-part-3/

 

About 10-12 years ago, I quit Gothardism only to get in beliefs-wise with these guys - Tullian and his enabler, Brown.

Sick.

[Howl]

Tullian has remarried, but now a third woman has contacted Julie Anne at SpiritualSoundingBoard.com about a sexual relationship she had with Tchividjian while he was still married to now ex-wife Kim.  Julie Anne opened a can of whoop-ass and contacted one of Tullian's publishers (David C Cook), a non-profit Christian publishing house, to ask why they are still carrying his books and trying to confirm if he is currently under contract to write another book for them.   She's also wondering if Tullian signed moral turpitude clauses with his Christian publishers. Besides multiple extra-marital affairs, Tullian also has a history of sexual/emotional grooming with multiple women.   Like many men in this situation (Doug Phillips, Mark Driscoll et al.) he has not bothered with a long restitution process overseen by elders, but has tried to jump right back into the ministry.  Apparently undergoing a restitution process is for chumps. 

Julie Anne has covered the Tullian Tchividjian situation in four parts, this is Part 4: 

4. An Appeal to Publisher David C Cook, and Others Promoting Tullian Tchividjian

I like Julie Anne for her dogged* determination at ferreting* out the truth, for being completely transparent and ethical about what she is doing, where she's going with her information, and laying that out for her readers.  

*Dogs, ferrets, I know, I know.