Oregon bakers were NOT fined for refusing to bake cake

[Black Aliss]

Turns out the story is really quite different. For all the crying and complaining that they were being persecuted for following their convictions, by refusing to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding, the fine was actually for having published the complaint against them, along with the couple's home address, subjecting them to death threats and the potential loss of their foster children.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/oregon- ... e-address/

[Four is Enough]

B-I-I-I-G Difference! More Lying Liars who Lie.

[FundieFarmer]

That's quite a big difference. They should've known not to publish that information, but apparently not. People these days. :snooty:

[sparkles]

But the Kleins are still persecuted Christians and it's still the lesbians' fault because this never would have happened IF THEY WEREN'T LESBIANS IN THE FIRST PLACE. So there. Fundie logic. :pull-hair:

[Wingnut]

They put innocent children at risk by publishing the couple's names and address. I am glad they had to close. It isn't like they can't live off their GFM account. smh

[doggie]

The Christians that want to refuse gay people can do so legally all they have to do is say I won't want to help you and keep their mouths shut about their religion. but we know some Christians cant do that. Of course they may pay price in bad feedback but it is better then breaking the law.

[Black Aliss]

I'm not sure they are out of business. Their website, heavily sprinkled with Jebus and making clear their version of what constitutes a marriage, is still alive.

We here at Sweet Cakes strongly believe that when a man and woman come together to be joined as one, it is truly one of the most special days of their lives, we feel truely honored when we are chosen to do the cake for your special day.

ETA: according to oregonlive.com:

Photographers and florists severed ties with the company, eventually forcing Sweet Cakes to close the Gresham shop in September 2013. The business now operates out of the couple's home in Sandy.

[DowntownAbbey]

I guess I missed the Levitical law on the appropriate times to doxx people. :angry-banghead:

[jjmennonite]

Oh how the media can distort things. Putting minor children in danger does not equal refusing to bake a cake for lesbians based on (twisted Christian) principles, EVER!

Edited: I actually know the dif between principle and principal.

[chosenone]

Not to worry,, there gofundme page collected well in excess of the fines levied

[ADoyle90815]

Oh how the media can distort things. Putting minor children in danger does not equal refusing to bake a cake for lesbians based on (twisted Christian) principles, EVER!

Edited: I actually know the dif between principle and principal.

Exactly. This isn't the same as refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding, this is putting minor children in danger which is far worse.

[DGayle]

The fines should be a lot higher.

[doggie]

So they lied to get money huh? Lying for jesus is not as sin of corse

[Emkay]

Also, had they set up their bakery as an LLC, they wouldn't be facing losing their home (aka their 'personal assets') to cover the fines they received for their 'revenge' after having the complaint filed against them. I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who goes into business without knowing (or following) their state's laws or taking care to cover their asses in case of an issue like this.

*those more well-versed in law and who have self-owned businesses, please correct me if I'm wrong on the LLC aspect.

[Snarkylark]

It's hard to know which way is up when there are conflicting opinions.

washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/07/10/no-the-oregon-bakers-werent-fined-for-publishing-the-complainants-home-address-or-for-otherwise-publicizing-the-complaint-against-them/

[Firiel]

It's hard to know which way is up when there are conflicting opinions.

washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/07/10/no-the-oregon-bakers-werent-fined-for-publishing-the-complainants-home-address-or-for-otherwise-publicizing-the-complaint-against-them/

Well, if you want to read for yourself, you can read the actual ruling here: http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/p ... s%20FO.pdf

[Snarkylark]

122 pages?? In legal speak. Yeah, I'll pass. Anyone here care to give it a shot?

[Maggie Mae]

I got a 404 error.

[Petrel]

122 pages?? In legal speak. Yeah, I'll pass. Anyone here care to give it a shot?

Come on, it's not that hard.

The upshot is that they broke the law and were told to stop doing that in future. If they had broken the law but no harm resulted, they would have just been ordered to desist doing so in future and there would be no monetary punishment because the agency is not authorized to levy fines. The money was awarded as damages to the victims because the bakers' actions caused their family considerable emotional distress. The purpose of the money awarded them was to make them whole from the damages that the bakers' caused.

In short, yes, it is true that they have to pay damages for causing emotional distress, and not just because they did not bake a cake.

If they had responded more charitably in their initial refusal and had not hounded this couple after they made the complaint, they would probably just have been slapped with a cease and desist order and not have to pay damages at all.

[Firiel]

122 pages?? In legal speak. Yeah, I'll pass. Anyone here care to give it a shot?

Well, you said it was tough to know what to believe. So I offered you the link so you can make the judgement for yourself. More research is always a great idea.

But if you want to know the 'truth' and don't want to read the source documents yourself, I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

[Firiel]

I got a 404 error.

Weird... browser issue, maybe?

It's working for me.

[Snarkylark]

Well, you said it was tough to know what to believe. So I offered you the link so you can make the judgement for yourself. More research is always a great idea.

But if you want to know the 'truth' and don't want to read the source documents yourself, I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

I know. Lol, thanks for that. I just can't

[nelliebelle1197]

Well, you said it was tough to know what to believe. So I offered you the link so you can make the judgement for yourself. More research is always a great idea.

But if you want to know the 'truth' and don't want to read the source documents yourself, I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

Somehow the response you got does not surprise me.

[Petrel]

I know. Lol, thanks for that. I just can't

Fortunately I could. Summary is on page 1.

[sockinshoe]

If anyone's a danger to children/families, it's these ridiculous Klein people. How dare they threaten a child's safety and home due to their own bigotry and hatred. I'm so disgusted by this kind of behaviour. If you don't want to bake a cake for gay people, and the law tries to force you to do it, we can have a discussion. If you want to be a bigot, I guess you can be a bigot. But you cannot, CANNOT, act on your hatred/bigotry. It's basic JS Mills: Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Never mind my partner, my child, or my address.