New Duggar radio interview.

[tabitha2]

Fairly lengthy and I don't know that much is new because I just started listening but have at it :)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hiaradio/2 ... he-duggars

[xDreamerx]

Ew. I'm listening to it now and it bothers me. I mean, I'm only about half way through but so far Michelle has spent all kinds of time talking about how you shouldn't yell at your kids and you should talk softly. But then, she talks about when one of her kids spilled some pineapple and she didn't yell at them instead she told them to wait for her and "corrected" the child. Does this mean she took them into the room and hit the kid? Yelling is bad but hitting is just dandy?!

It bothers me that she says her children are all needed because when they leave chores don't get done. They all have their jurisdictions so they're all important for example ___ (can't remember which) takes out the trash. How telling. Her children really are like little factory workers to her.

[marmalade]

Canned crap we've heard a thousand times before, but the emphasis on "correction," "training" and how Michelle acquired her baby voice are bothersome. So is her application of grace. The new blogs make some very clear delineations regarding how Gothard defines it vs. the Bible and Michelle is applying Gothard's law, although they are careful never to mention his name outright in these videos (although ATI, the seminars, Jim Sammons and the website all get shoutouts).

They are really fucking up the spiritual hearts of their children.

[xDreamerx]

How does Gothard define grace?

[debrand]

I agree that yelling is probably counterproductive. Kids learn to tune it out. But you can talk firmly to your child without raising your voice much. All you have to do is drop your voice a notch and sound like you're serious. Of course, you wouldn't sound ultra feminine and cutesy, which is Michelle's goal.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Ew. I'm listening to it now and it bothers me. I mean, I'm only about half way through but so far Michelle has spent all kinds of time talking about how you shouldn't yell at your kids and you should talk softly. But then, she talks about when one of her kids spilled some pineapple and she didn't yell at them instead she told them to wait for her and "corrected" the child. Does this mean she took them into the room and hit the kid? Yelling is bad but hitting is just dandy?!

It bothers me that she says her children are all needed because when they leave chores don't get done. They all have their jurisdictions so they're all important for example ___ (can't remember which) takes out the trash. How telling. Her children really are like little factory workers to her.

I also don't really understand punishing kids for having accidents. Everyone spills stuff, drops stuff, etc. But that's neither here nor there...

[marmalade]

Here is a pretty good article from the new Recovering Grace site that articulates the differences between biblical grace and Gothard's "grace." Hint: the latter is not freely given, but something earned by good works.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/07/ ... ing-grace/

[tabitha2]

I also don't really understand punishing kids for having accidents. Everyone spills stuff, drops stuff, etc. But that's neither here nor there...

the 'correction' was for not obeying not for spilling.In their dogma obedience should be cheerful,unquestioning and done the first time when it comes to parents and husbands (for females).Anything less is sin.

[bananacat]

I think that when spanking is done in a cold, calculated way, or especially with a cutesy baby voice, that just makes it even worse.

I think the best "correction" for accidental spills is to teach the child how to clean it up, if they are old enough to learn. It takes extra time and effort in the beginning but once they know how to do it they can clean up future spills on their own without any fuss or embarrassment, and it's also a skill that they need to learn eventually. It's also not really a punishment but just teaching them the responsible way to handle their mistakes.

[xDreamerx]

Here is a pretty good article from the new Recovering Grace site that articulates the differences between biblical grace and Gothard's "grace." Hint: the latter is not freely given, but something earned by good works.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/07/ ... ing-grace/

I might be misunderstanding but isn't this approach typical of Calvinist theology?

[marmalade]

That's what I'm thinking too, but then you throw the legalism from the Wisdom Booklets (7 rules for this, 4 tenets of that for a godly life) on top of it and you have Gothard. They basically guilt you into feeling you have not attained all the tenets to attain real grace. If you read more of the articles there and on iblpdetox.com (the blog by Anna Duggar's BIL - his most recent article covers the topic), you'll have a clearer picture.

It doesn't help that he shortens the main definition of grace in Ephesians 2 to suit his needs. Google the quote in the detox article and compare it to what's in the bible. HUGE difference, but that's how Gothard operates.

[mythoughtis]

The 'grace' thing.... their interpretation pretty much wipes out the entire New testament, and also pretty much marks them as Non-Christian, actually as being Jewish. Having to do good works to be saved is a lot like having to follow Jewish laws to be saved.... and belittles Christ's death on the cross.

Pretty amazing for folks who wander around singing of the blood of Christ

[GeoBQn]

I'd love to see what would happen if JimBob and Michelle took that quiz on BeliefNet where it calculates what religion matches the best with their actual beliefs. I remember when it first came out, the Chicago Sun-Times got a lot of religious leaders to take it. An imam tested 100% for Orthodox Judaism.

[acheronbeach]

Of course, you wouldn't sound ultra feminine and cutesy, which is Michelle's goal.

I always think she sounds like she has some kind of mental lag.

If I think of a feminine, all-woman voice, I think of someone like Helen Mirren.

[Kitty]

I think that when spanking is done in a cold, calculated way, or especially with a cutesy baby voice, that just makes it even worse.

:shock: :o you just made be think of Dolores Umbridge. Yeah yeah Harry Potter nerd but the similarities between Michelle Duggar and Umbridge are terrifying when you put it like that.