Churches Must Not Be Forced To Recognize Gay Marriages

[Ralar]

I guess Overstock.com is another company to add to the "Don't Do Business With" list.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/20/overstock-vice-chairman-gay-marriage_n_4631596.Churches%20Must%20Not%20Be%20Forced%20To%20Recognize%20Gay%20Marriages

I like Utah Sen. James Dabakis (who is openly gay) comment. He said he didn't see anything wrong with the measure. “No sane person I know of wants to coerce or force any religion to perform any ceremony that they are not comfortable with.â€

[Vex]

I totally agree with him. Nobody wants to be married by people who clearly object to the marriage. There are no shortage of ministers and churches who are happy to conduct same sex marriages.

It's bigotry, but I don't think the gay rights movement will accomplish anything by forcing people to marry them against their will.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that churches should be allowed to choose whether they perform gay marriages. I don't think it matters if some dont, as theres loads of secular places that will allow gay weddings, as well as more liberal churches who support marriage equality. I don't think most gay people would want to be married in or even attend a church that doesn't like gay people.

Churches do have rules about who can get married there that don't apply to other venues, like requiring the couple to both practice the same religion, or attend the church, or want people to keep to a modest dress code when marrying there, or not want to marry a couple who have previously been divorced, or have kissed or had sex before marriage...and that's okay.

As long as theyre not forcing it to be banned altogether, let them have their rules in their church.

I think if we forced them to marry gay people, they would cry persecution, but if we let them keep to their rules, most will be happy with that, and may eventually accept it and start allowing gay marriages in the future.

[formergothardite]

Churches can still refuse to marry people because of the color of their skin what makes these people think that they will be forced to marry gay couples?

[Trynn]

I agree with the other posters, I am uncomfortable with the idea of churches being forced to recognize it. Separation of church and state

[formergothardite]

I haven't read all the laws but are there Utah laws being presented that are saying that all churches must marry gay couples? This is a common argument that I've seen used by anti-gay marriage people to "prove" that marriage equality will trample on their religious rights. And unless there are laws being passed that say that no church can turn away a gay couple(and I would not support such laws) it makes as much sense as the toaster marriage argument.

I've mentioned here before that my husband was married before he married me. There was a ton of churches that would not allow us to get married there because of his divorce. There was a person I went to college with who found a church she loved but the church would not allow anyone to use their church unless they had been a member for two years. Churches deny people all the time when it comes to weddings, what makes people think that they would suddenly have to marry a gay couple?

[MamaJunebug]

I agree with the other posters, I am uncomfortable with the idea of churches being forced to recognize it. Separation of church and state

Neither should the government force recognition by mosques, nor synagogues, nor temples, nor societies recognized as religious while not identifying a deity (Ethical Society, for instance).

My church membership is in a congregation that supports only "traditional" marriage. My heart's not in my church! But as it's been explained to me, the law of the land seeks to prevent government from establishing a state religion, and to prevent a religion from establishing itself as a civil governing entity.

We love who we love. If a club won't have us as we are, we find another club. For those of us who see nothing wrong with gay marriage to try to beat others into submission to our beliefs - especially if we attempt to use the legal system to do so - means that we are sinking lower than they already are (in our humble opinions, of course).

It also means that we are setting hideously dangerous precedents for extremists to use to their advantages against their "enemies."

I'm glad this topic is being discussed!

[MissA]

Who exactly is proposing to legally compel churches to perform or recognize gay marriages?

The Catholic church, which I was baptized into, does not recognize my marriage since my husband is a divorced man. Most churches (unless they are extremely ecumenical) don't perform marriages for people who aren't members of their own particular sect so I couldn't have gotten married in an ELCA church or whatever, had I wished to. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that people who are not in good standing with a particular religious organization can't have a valid marriage.

In my state, the actual legal component of a marriage requires you go to the DMV and fill out a form. This is true even if you have a hippie do-as-you-please wedding like we did or if you are an actual devout Catholic who did your pre-Cana classes and had the whole excruciating mass in your ceremony. I am LEGALLY married even if the Catholic church thinks I'm living in sin, and that's what people are asking for. The people currently performing same-sex marriages in Utah are state clerks, not acting as representatives of a faith.

This Overstock dude seems like a twerp with a persecution complex, basically.

[formergothardite]

I don't think that this is a topic that needs to be discussed or worried about anymore than toaster marriage because it isn't actually a real issue. Can anyone provide any proof that laws are being seriously considered that would make all churches perform gay marriages.?

[ADoyle90815]

I haven't heard anything about such laws, except as fear mongering from the anti-gay marriage side. I'm opposed to churches being forced to perform gay marriages or other marriages they don't agree with as it's a violation of the First Amendment and separation of church and state. As I'm divorced, my fiancee and I are going to have to get married in a church that will perform a second marriage, and there are several of those available. I'm not Catholic, so the fact that I could never get married there due to my divorce isn't an issue since there's no way I would have had that type of wedding.

Back to the topic of gay marriages, there are several churches that do perform those types of ceremonies, so if gay couples really want a church wedding, they can easily get married in one of those more welcoming churches. At least one gay couple that I know who is legally married had their ceremony in an Episcopal church.

[RachelB]

I haven't heard anything about such laws, except as fear mongering from the anti-gay marriage side. I'm opposed to churches being forced to perform gay marriages or other marriages they don't agree with as it's a violation of the First Amendment and separation of church and state. As I'm divorced, my fiancee and I are going to have to get married in a church that will perform a second marriage, and there are several of those available. I'm not Catholic, so the fact that I could never get married there due to my divorce isn't an issue since there's no way I would have had that type of wedding.

Back to the topic of gay marriages, there are several churches that do perform those types of ceremonies, so if gay couples really want a church wedding, they can easily get married in one of those more welcoming churches. At least one gay couple that I know who is legally married had their ceremony in an Episcopal church.

Yup. I grew up in one of those more welcoming churches, and it gets on my last nerve to hear conservative churches arguing against legal recognition for same-sex couples because "it would lead to us having to perform marriages we don't approve of." No, it would not. It would just mean that the denominations that are already performing marriages for same-sex couples would be filing the same paperwork with the state that they currently file for the other couples they marry.

The Catholic church isn't going to perform a wedding for me whether I marry a man or a woman, because I'm not Catholic. The establishment clause allows them that freedom, and the establishment clause is not going anywhere.

[Cleopatra7]

I think we (Americans, that is) should just make everyone, gay or straight, get married at the court house and people could have a ceremony on their own time that has religious but not legal meaning.

[Coconut Flan]

My daughter has been advocating for that for over ten years.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Well, if anything, a Constitutional amendment protecting clergy and religious institutions would stop anyone from arguing against marriage equality by screaming "it will violate my religious rights".

[Arete]

Well, if anything, a Constitutional amendment protecting clergy and religious institutions would stop anyone from arguing against marriage equality by screaming "it will violate my religious rights".

They are already protected. There is absolutely zero chance of religious institutions being "forced" to marry anyone. Not going to happen. This is a false flag argument to rile the base up because of all the setbacks (states that legalized gay marriage) in 2013.