new study Stress in the womb causes gay children

[doggie]

This is an interesting idea who knows?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... essor.html

Women who suffer stress during pregnancy increase the chance of their child being gay, according to a controversial new book.

The lifestyle of pregnant mothers affects the sexuality of their unborn child, altering their hormones and the formation of their brains, it claims.

Smoking or taking drugs can also result in a child who grows up to be gay, according to the book by Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab, which is yet another chapter in the debate about the origins and causes of homosexuality.

[NurseNell]

I remember about 25 years ago or so reading an article that said women who were pregnant in Europe during WWII had a higher risk of having gay children. Stress and malnutrition were thought to be the causes. I don't know if anything further was ever published.

[lexiloumarie]

Not a new idea or thought process. Always came across as very "its all mom's fault/trying to assign blame" which I have problems with for obvious reasons. Oh you smoked? You get "punished" with a gay child. Not to mention the human brain is so complex that I can't imagine that it is nearly as simple as straight people try and make it by trying to connect causation versus correlation.

However on the other hand, considering I was conceived as my parents divorced.....

[artdecades]

I am officially a 10 year old boy because I laughed out loud at then name Dick Swaab

[DomWackTroll]

I am officially a 10 year old boy because I laughed out loud at then name Dick Swaab

I heard Beall made Doug get one of those.

[acheronbeach]

I'm sure that this will make right-wingers get on board with socialized medicine and other programs to reduce maternal stress, right?

/endsarcasm

[gezykah]

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that. Even if all the correlations he's drawing are true where's the proof of causation? Has he taken into account questions such as how parents who wrongly feel guilty over having gay children may be experiencing hindsight bias? When he notes the increase in lesbians during certain time period or the chance of men being gay based on the number of older brothers they have is he taking into account factors such as social movements or if birth order may effect not just sexual orientation but the chances somebody is willing to come out of the closet. I know of numerous cultures and families where there is far more pressure on the first born child especially if it is a boy to tow the family line in ways younger siblings are not. I get the impression when it comes to his "research" his heart is in the right place but he's recklessly throwing data into a book as if they're facts without showing proof of anything.

[snarktastic]

The original article is in the Daily Mail so his findings may not be reported with 100% accuracy :D

I imagine that right now Dr Swaab is banging his head on his desk and crying "It's.a.bit.more.complicated.than.that".

Still, makes a nice change from the daily Wail article about what causes / prevents cancer.

[doggie]

There was another study in the US about that something happens in the womb that causes gayness. though he did not know what it was it was a pretty well written study.

[acheronbeach]

Oh and I just want to add a disclaimer - I don't necessarily believe this is true, nor do I think anyone should particularly care beyond the fact that expectant mothers should have as much support for a stress-free pregnancy as possible.

[Full enough quiver]

Studies like this seem to imply that having a gay child is bad, something to be avoided. I'm all for stress free pregnancy, though I fail to see the child being gay as a negative outcome. I wouldn't be upset if my kid was left handed or red headed, why would gay be any different?

[latraviata]

Studies like this seem to imply that having a gay child is bad, something to be avoided. I'm all for stress free pregnancy, though I fail to see the child being gay as a negative outcome. I wouldn't be upset if my kid was left handed or red headed, why would gay be any different?

Prof. Swaab doens't imply anything other than there are indications that it might be that stress is an increased chance of......which is not the same as 'presenting facts'.

I have the book in it's original language (Dutch) and the professor is a well know and prestigieus brain researcher and founder of 'Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience'.

http://www.nin.knaw.nl/

[amster]

i just find the idea that there would be a study on what 'causes' homosexuality ridiculous. Who cares? Some people are gay, some are straight, some are bisexual, some are asexual, some are transgendered. Who says there has to be a 'cause'?

[doggie]

The only way to fight lgbt hate and ignorance is education and knowledge.

[lexiloumarie]

The only way to fight lgbt hate and ignorance is education and knowledge.

I agree with that. Unfortunately studies like this are taken more as how to prevent/cure then to help promote tolerance

[doggie]

I agree with that. Unfortunately studies like this are taken more as how to prevent/cure then to help promote tolerance

You can't run your life worrying how someone will use your info. No matter what the study would say someone would be able to use it in the wrong way. The same argument could be used about medicine or any since that could be used the wrong way by a fundy.

[Full enough quiver]

It's an interesting theory, and I don't mean to imply that Dr. Swaab is in any way homophobic. The pathologizing of homosexuality bugs me. (not that Dr. Swaab is doing that, just in general) Those FJers who are lgbt, would you change it if you could? If they found a "cure" for homosexuality, would you take it?

[SamuraiKatz]

i just find the idea that there would be a study on what 'causes' homosexuality ridiculous. Who cares? Some people are gay, some are straight, some are bisexual, some are asexual, some are transgendered. Who says there has to be a 'cause'?

A biological cause is preferable to being cast as evil and told you can over come the gay if you just pray enough......

[SamuraiKatz]

It's an interesting theory, and I don't mean to imply that Dr. Swaab is in any way homophobic. The pathologizing of homosexuality bugs me. (not that Dr. Swaab is doing that, just in general) Those FJers who are lgbt, would you change it if you could? If they found a "cure" for homosexuality, would you take it?

I am perfect just the way I am. No need for a cure..no need for religion either.:)

[ADoyle90815]

I agree with that. Unfortunately studies like this are taken more as how to prevent/cure then to help promote tolerance

I agree, in fact it's why I think that if there were a prenatal test for homosexuality, the anti abortion movement would run out of steam as many of those people would demand an abortion for a gay fetus. That's just my opinion as many fundies who are anti-abortion are also extremely homophobic.

[Vex]

That's why I hate this research into why gay people are born gay. If they manage to isolate the reason it will inevitably turn into yet another thing that you can take drugs or abort to prevent and ultimately all it can be used to do is prevent gay people from being born.

I'm sure the pro-lifers would respond by saying the baby should still be born, but should be adopted out to gay parents because then the gays get kids and the babies get parents and then all the gayness in the would would be self contained and nice Christian parents would never have to deal with the nasty surprise that one of their dozen little arrows is bent.

I've never resented abortion as a choice. I don't judge parents who abort babies with down syndrome or CF or other medical problems even though I don't think I could ever abort for any reason unless the child had something like Tay-Sachs and would only live to suffer a short, pain-filled life (and even then I don't know that I could have the strength do it).

So is it hypocritical of me to be upset about this because I'm gay? Health problems seem different because to me because sometimes people aren't financially equipped to deal with those and it's so hard to adopt out children with serious medical issues, but a gay child is perfectly normal. I don't judge people for aborting healthy fetuses for any reason either though, so this shouldn't bother me.

I feel like a massive hypocrite. I keep thinking 'well this is different!', only it's not really. They only way it's perhaps different is that people don't abort or give children up for adoption due to prejudice, and preventing a child from being gay or aborting it because it's gay would exclusively be done by people out of prejudice.

[Trynn]

As an asexual, sometimes I want a "cure." Preferably toward the Hetero end of the spectrum, but at least if I was gay mainstream is beginning to accept that, but asexuality not so much.

But you know what? No. Asexuality is me. If I wasn't asexual, I wouldn't be me, I'd be someone else. And I'm not sure I like the idea of not being me.

(At least, in that aspect.)

[Vex]

Asexuals must have a hard time. A lot of people refuse to believe it's real, and that the person just has a low sex drive or can be cured by having sex with a magical 'right person'. At least being gay is straightforward to me. I am sexually attracted to women, and only women. End of story.

[doggie]

As an asexual, sometimes I want a "cure." Preferably toward the Hetero end of the spectrum, but at least if I was gay mainstream is beginning to accept that, but asexuality not so much.

But you know what? No. Asexuality is me. If I wasn't asexual, I wouldn't be me, I'd be someone else. And I'm not sure I like the idea of not being me.

(At least, in that aspect.)

I think if there was a cure it could really mess you up. Most people have a lifetime to try to deal with their sexuality and it is still pretty hard to manage it well. to town into that with no practice would be so hard. my wife has been blind since birth and she says that yes it would be good but to try to get used to a whole other world all at once could be very hard.

[lexiloumarie]

Those FJers who are lgbt, would you change it if you could? If they found a "cure" for homosexuality, would you take it?

No way at all. I love my partner and my kids. I love the community that I have, and the way its shaped my view of differentness. I was never Christian so that never factored into my coming out processes.

That's why I hate this research into why gay people are born gay. If they manage to isolate the reason it will inevitably turn into yet another thing that you can take drugs or abort to prevent and ultimately all it can be used to do is prevent gay people from being born.

That's exactly my issue with this. It sounds like someone looking to fix what I love about myself. I understand why they do it from a scientific point of view but I hate the way it would be used by others.