Jezebel warns against Mark Driscoll & Mars Hill

[Katydid]

hjezebel.com/worst-guy-ever-alert-beware-of-horrible-hipster-pastor-1477472909?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

I'm not breaking the link because it's Jezebel. What do y'all think of the article?

[DomWackTroll]

Well, there isn't much new there for us, but I'm glad that more mainstream sites are shining a spotlight on him.

[Katydid]

I didn't see much new there, but I was glad to see that it hit a gawker site. They have a fairly wide readership.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Just finished reading the post at Jezebel. To read so many of Mark Driscoll's awful rants, opinions and screeds makes me want to fucking vomit. What a horrible human being.

[splork]

Loved this comment; it's happened to me so many times:

"Cool Christians ™ are the absolute WORST. It's so incredibly cynical. I was inundated with these people in college. Some 20-year-old with an unusual haircut would be really nice to you, it would seem a bit much, you would start getting a creepy feeling that they weren't genuine, and then they would invite you to church. There's no dress code! It's just a cool place to hang, man! Really!!!! The next step, after you declined, is that they would shun and glare at you from that point on."

I went to high school with proto-Cool Christians back before fauxhawks were invented. It's so confusing to be 14 and find yourself in the middle of a 20 minute long prayer at a waterslide. "This waterpark is so rad! Oh, you're praying for someone to get saved today? Who are you talking about, guys?! ...Oh."

[bettertomarry]

Has anyone read "Righteous" by Lauren Sandler? The chapter on Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill is fascinating, although now that I've read more about him, I wish she would have gone a little deeper into his insane theology. The man is unhinged.

[ThisOlGirl]

Mark Driscoll mostly grosses me out because of his beliefs, but his whole image is just really off putting to me. I've said this before, but he reminds me of those middle aged, possibly recently divorced guys you see in a bar. They're dressed like a frat boy and they're trying to pick up women half their age. They don't realize that they're coming off as real creepers. If Mark wasn't so "godly", I could totally see him as The Old Dude In The Club, or a PUA.

[bettertomarry]

Anyone know anything about his wife, Grace Driscoll? Anyone ready their book on marriage? I just requested it through our library system.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Mark Driscoll mostly grosses me out because of his beliefs, but his whole image is just really off putting to me. I've said this before, but he reminds me of those middle aged, possibly recently divorced guys you see in a bar. They're dressed like a frat boy and they're trying to pick up women half their age. They don't realize that they're coming off as real creepers. If Mark wasn't so "godly", I could totally see him as The Old Dude In The Club, or a PUA.

And he's be wearing an Ed Hardy T-shirt and reeking of Axe body spray.

[lilwriter85]

Loved this comment; it's happened to me so many times:

"Cool Christians ™ are the absolute WORST. It's so incredibly cynical. I was inundated with these people in college. Some 20-year-old with an unusual haircut would be really nice to you, it would seem a bit much, you would start getting a creepy feeling that they weren't genuine, and then they would invite you to church. There's no dress code! It's just a cool place to hang, man! Really!!!! The next step, after you declined, is that they would shun and glare at you from that point on."

I went to high school with proto-Cool Christians back before fauxhawks were invented. It's so confusing to be 14 and find yourself in the middle of a 20 minute long prayer at a waterslide. "This waterpark is so rad! Oh, you're praying for someone to get saved today? Who are you talking about, guys?! ...Oh."

I knew some Cool Christians in high school and college. Cool Christians are always going to be around on college campuses in groups/organizations like Campus Crusade, Baptist or other blank Student Union groups.

[Trynn]

Anyone know anything about his wife, Grace Driscoll? Anyone ready their book on marriage? I just requested it through our library system.

I've read parts of it, but I honestly couldn't get through the first 3 chapters because of the anti-feminism. My friend really loves this book because it's the only one out there that he's been able to find that talks a lot about your wife being your best friend. He's quite liberal, so I was sad to see that he sorta believes the whole male leadership/submissive wife in marriage thing largely due to this book. I can see him moving away from it, though, as mostly he wants an egalitarian marriage.

In the book, in the first few chapters, Mark talks about how he treated Grace unfairly for a good decade or so after they were married because... I can't remember the exact details, but she did something with a boy while she and mark were still dating, and never told him about it because she was afraid he wouldn't want to marry her if she did.

Mark sates that Grace was right, that if he'd known what she did, he wouldn't have married her. Because of this, he distanced himself from her for like, a decade, maybe 2. And I just though, wow, what a dick. He can't get past something his wife did? Jeez!

But kept reading.

Grace actually writes a chapter (3, I think?) on wifely submission. It was a lot of circle talk, and even though I believed Christianity at the time, the anti-feminism was getting to be a bit much for me. I couldn't finish the book, and returned it unfinished because reading it gave me a stomach ache.

In later chapters, he goes through sexual acts and talks about what's ok and not ok (between married hetero couples only, of course.) I don't remember a lot of it, because I'm asexual and I don't care, so I only skimmed through it. I just know he talks about it.

[sunshine]

I've read parts of it, but I honestly couldn't get through the first 3 chapters because of the anti-feminism. My friend really loves this book because it's the only one out there that he's been able to find that talks a lot about your wife being your best friend. He's quite liberal, so I was sad to see that he sorta believes the whole male leadership/submissive wife in marriage thing largely due to this book. I can see him moving away from it, though, as mostly he wants an egalitarian marriage.

In the book, in the first few chapters, Mark talks about how he treated Grace unfairly for a good decade or so after they were married because... I can't remember the exact details, but she did something with a boy while she and mark were still dating, and never told him about it because she was afraid he wouldn't want to marry her if she did.

Mark sates that Grace was right, that if he'd known what she did, he wouldn't have married her. Because of this, he distanced himself from her for like, a decade, maybe 2. And I just though, wow, what a dick. He can't get past something his wife did? Jeez!

But kept reading.

Grace actually writes a chapter (3, I think?) on wifely submission. It was a lot of circle talk, and even though I believed Christianity at the time, the anti-feminism was getting to be a bit much for me. I couldn't finish the book, and returned it unfinished because reading it gave me a stomach ache.

In later chapters, he goes through sexual acts and talks about what's ok and not ok (between married hetero couples only, of course.) I don't remember a lot of it, because I'm asexual and I don't care, so I only skimmed through it. I just know he talks about it.

(1) This is typical for men and it doesn't matter if they are christian or not. Same with women. To get over something like that is hard but it is do able. I'm glad he forgave Grace and got over his pride.

(2) what is asexual?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Asexuals are people who are not interested in sex.

[formergothardite]

(1) This is typical for men and it doesn't matter if they are christian or not. Same with women. To get over something like that is hard but it is do able. I'm glad he forgave Grace and got over his pride.

(2) what is asexual?

I'm not sure he ever got over his pride and treating her like crap. His marriage and sex advice shows he cares very little for his wife. Like the time he reduced her to tears over a hair cut because she was pregnant, needed an easier hair style and he felt like she was selfish. And the fact that he feels like she owes it to him to always be skinny and sexy who is always willing to be a stripper in the bedroom and have wild sex no matter how tired she is.

[debrand]

Mark Driscoll mostly grosses me out because of his beliefs, but his whole image is just really off putting to me. I've said this before, but he reminds me of those middle aged, possibly recently divorced guys you see in a bar. They're dressed like a frat boy and they're trying to pick up women half their age. They don't realize that they're coming off as real creepers. If Mark wasn't so "godly", I could totally see him as The Old Dude In The Club, or a PUA.

I agree. Mark's coolness comes off as contrived and his falseness annoys me. He seems to think that he is being manly and young in reality, he seems like an old guy who is really insecure.

Mark also thinks that he has a video playing in his head to tell him when people have sinned. :wtf:

[Emme]

(1) This is typical for men and it doesn't matter if they are christian or not. Same with women. To get over something like that is hard but it is do able. I'm glad he forgave Grace and got over his pride.

(2) what is asexual?

http://www.upworthy.com/free-sex-did-yo ... you?c=ufb1

Not breaking the link cuz it's upworthy. I thought this definition of asexuality was good.

[formergothardite]

I agree. Mark's coolness comes off as contrived and his falseness annoys me. He seems to think that he is being manly and young in reality, he seems like an old guy who is really insecure.

Mark also thinks that he has a video playing in his head to tell him when people have sinned. :wtf:

That is how he knew his wife had messed around with another guy when they were in high school. :roll: He saw it in a vision, went and confronted her while she was nine months pregnant, she admitted that while they were in high school and a couple of weeks after they had started dating she had done something with another guy, then he was all "I wish I had never married you." and then he proceeded to spend a decade making her pay for something she did in high school a couple of weeks after they had started to date. I honestly don't think that my husband would have reacted that way.

[Trynn]

Wait, really? I thought this came out when they were doing some marital counseling, after which he stopped going. Is that really what he said? In the book? Did I like, totally read over that sentence in the book and just... not absorb it? Because that's not something I would've forgotten.

Wow. Apparently I am really good at blocking stuff out when I need to. This could explain how I survived childhoold without being brain washed.

Thank you all for explaining asexuality. I really just don't feel up to it most of the time.

I agree that something like that could be difficult, but at the same time, to "make someone pay" for it for ten freakin' years? That's not normal. That's not a normal reaction at all. The Christian thing to do is to forgive her *before* the end of the decade, and I don't mean 9 years and 364 days later.

Frankly, if he wasn't willing to marry her at all just for having some experience.... eh, I dunno, it just seemed like a dick move.

[mockingbird]

I agree that something like that could be difficult, but at the same time, to "make someone pay" for it for ten freakin' years? That's not normal. That's not a normal reaction at all. The Christian thing to do is to forgive her *before* the end of the decade, and I don't mean 9 years and 364 days later.

Frankly, if he wasn't willing to marry her at all just for having some experience.... eh, I dunno, it just seemed like a dick move.

FG makes it sound like she possibly cheated on him if it happened a few weeks after they started dating? (In the regular world though I think a lot of people might not consider it an exclusive relationship that early on.)

In any case, holding a grudge for 9 years is not healthy for either party.

[Trynn]

Right. I mean, depending on the situation he's allowed to be hurt by it, but his behavior towards his wife for ten years was inexcusable. You either forgive or divorce, in that situation. Not make life miserable.

[lilwriter85]

I agree. Mark's coolness comes off as contrived and his falseness annoys me. He seems to think that he is being manly and young in reality, he seems like an old guy who is really insecure.

Mark also thinks that he has a video playing in his head to tell him when people have sinned. :wtf:

I also think Mark is insecure. I think the coolness is contrived in part so he can get and keep followers. Some people will fall for something that looks nice and fun on the outside, but is dangerous on the inside.

[formergothardite]

This is what he said happened:

I saw in painful detail Grace sinning sexually during a senior trip she took after high school when we had just started dating. It was so clear it was like watching a film — something I cannot really explain but the kind of revelation I sometimes receive. I awoke, threw up, and spent the rest of the night sitting on our couch, praying, hoping it was untrue, and waiting for her to wake up so I could ask her. I asked her if it was true, fearing the answer. Yes, she confessed, it was. Grace started weeping and trying to apologize for lying to me, but I honestly don’t remember the details of the conversation, as I was shell-shocked. Had I known about this sin, I would not have married her

This was right before the birth of their first child and she told him he could leave but since she was about to have his baby he felt stuck so he didn't. Yes, I can see being hurt, but no, his reaction of a decade of getting revenge for this wasn't normal.

[apple1]

This is what he said happened:

I saw in painful detail Grace sinning sexually during a senior trip she took after high school when we had just started dating. It was so clear it was like watching a film — something I cannot really explain but the kind of revelation I sometimes receive. I awoke, threw up, and spent the rest of the night sitting on our couch, praying, hoping it was untrue, and waiting for her to wake up so I could ask her. I asked her if it was true, fearing the answer. Yes, she confessed, it was. Grace started weeping and trying to apologize for lying to me, but I honestly don’t remember the details of the conversation, as I was shell-shocked. Had I known about this sin, I would not have married her

This was right before the birth of their first child and she told him he could leave but since she was about to have his baby he felt stuck so he didn't. Yes, I can see being hurt, but no, his reaction of a decade of getting revenge for this wasn't normal.

I don't believe it - the part about it being a "divine revelation". I'm not much of an expert on dreams, but IMO, we dream in various ways, about many things. I think that some dreams are just the information stored in our brain getting mixed up when we don't have our conscious minds awake and keeping it in order. Other dreams are our subconscious playing out our fears. I believe that is what this "revelation" actually was. Add in a large helping of guilt in the wife's mind, and she admits to what his worst fear type of dream was.

What a d*****b**.

[snuggles911]

Anyone know anything about his wife, Grace Driscoll? Anyone ready their book on marriage? I just requested it through our library system.

I read the marriage book. On a positive note, he's as hard on men as he is on women. On a not-so-positive note, he puts a lot of pressure on wives to be physically appealing and sexually pleasing to their husbands. Not that there's anything wrong with that; he just seems to take it to extremes.

There's a sad part where he freaks out b/c Grace cut her hair into a "mom haircut" without asking his permission first. He is also very hard on her for having sex before marriage with another guy although he fesses up to having premarital sex, too.

[AnywhereButHere]

This is what he said happened:

I saw in painful detail Grace sinning sexually during a senior trip she took after high school when we had just started dating. It was so clear it was like watching a film — something I cannot really explain but the kind of revelation I sometimes receive. I awoke, threw up, and spent the rest of the night sitting on our couch, praying, hoping it was untrue, and waiting for her to wake up so I could ask her. I asked her if it was true, fearing the answer. Yes, she confessed, it was. Grace started weeping and trying to apologize for lying to me, but I honestly don’t remember the details of the conversation, as I was shell-shocked. Had I known about this sin, I would not have married her

This was right before the birth of their first child and she told him he could leave but since she was about to have his baby he felt stuck so he didn't. Yes, I can see being hurt, but no, his reaction of a decade of getting revenge for this wasn't normal.

Not for nothing, but with his seemingly overpowering belief in and reaction to his “visionâ€, what were the chances he would have believed her if she’d said it wasn’t true? I can see him hounding her forever, trying to get her to confess to something she hadn’t done and never believing her. Poor woman was screwed either way.