Jezebel warns against Mark Driscoll & Mars Hill

[fatcat]

Like others here, Mark Driscoll bothers me because he seems so normal. The people who follow him and similar leaders (of the 'cool Christian' variety) don't dress in unusual clothing, don't keep to themselves, and do 'normal' things. It's easy for people to get sucked in. I think a lot of people, esp. around college age, are looking for something, or just are really scared of going out into the world alone, having to grow up, etc. That said, he can't be that normal if he has those visions :shifty-kitty:

As a side note, the notion of rock or popular music in church really bothers me. I know it's just a personal preference, and because I have always been to 'traditional' churches, but that just ain't right :naughty:

[VodouDoll]

(1) This is typical for men and it doesn't matter if they are christian or not. Same with women. To get over something like that is hard but it is do able. I'm glad he forgave Grace and got over his pride.

I hope that's not typical. Forgive your spouse if you want to and can, leave if you don't want to forgive or can't. But don't punish your spouse for a solid decade for hooking up with someone else one time years before you were even married. How cruel of him. I don't think that's typical of men at all, unless we're only discussing the subset of men who are vindictive and bad at marriage.

[Trynn]

Wait, "sexually sinning?" That's pretty vague... What'd she do, masturbate?

[Talitha Cumi]

Like others here, Mark Driscoll bothers me because he seems so normal. The people who follow him and similar leaders (of the 'cool Christian' variety) don't dress in unusual clothing, don't keep to themselves, and do 'normal' things. It's easy for people to get sucked in. I think a lot of people, esp. around college age, are looking for something, or just are really scared of going out into the world alone, having to grow up, etc. That said, he can't be that normal if he has those visions :shifty-kitty:

As a side note, the notion of rock or popular music in church really bothers me. I know it's just a personal preference, and because I have always been to 'traditional' churches, but that just ain't right :naughty:

I'm so with you there. Nothing after 1940, please!

Also, this:

However, any man who does so without his wife in the room is bordering on homosexuality activity, particularly if he's watching himself in a mirror and being turned on by his own male body.

SO SPECIFIC.

:gay-color: :gay-rainbow:

[ILoveJellybeans]

However, any man who does so without his wife in the room is bordering on homosexuality activity, particularly if he's watching himself in a mirror and being turned on by his own male body.

It says a lot about whoever wrote this. It takes a real narcissist to get turned on by looking at their own body.

I imagine its something Doug The Tool would do.

[alchemy]

Evange-douche. I love it. :lol:

They just expanded into my family's neighborhood in the general vicinity of my uncle's church. Unc was very professional about it. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 9357096912

[Rainytown]

I'm not breaking the link because it's Jezebel. What do y'all think of the article?

I'd like to print it off and hand it out to every female attending Mars Hill's next service. I'd also like to ask those women why they are attending a church led by a man who hates women with every fiber of his being.

We have a friend who's currently undergoing "church discipline" at Mars Hill, aided and abetted by her husband. (He'd like a leadership position. Mars Hill is more important to him than his marriage or his family.) She is in crisis, to put it mildly. Watching a group of grown men bullying and tormenting a woman who has NO advocate in this situation re-confirms every horrible thing I have ever heard or read about Mars Hill and their leadership.

While I'm at it, Grace Driscoll, you should have left his ass a long time ago. Why are you allowing your children to live with a man who thinks it appropriate to hold a grudge against you for NINE YEARS for an unspecified "sexual sin"? Does he treat your children the same when they displease him? Life as a single parent would be a walk in the park in comparison to any time at all spent with a man I believe is unhinged at best.

[wild little fox]

I've read parts of it, but I honestly couldn't get through the first 3 chapters because of the anti-feminism. My friend really loves this book because it's the only one out there that he's been able to find that talks a lot about your wife being your best friend. He's quite liberal, so I was sad to see that he sorta believes the whole male leadership/submissive wife in marriage thing largely due to this book. I can see him moving away from it, though, as mostly he wants an egalitarian marriage.

In the book, in the first few chapters, Mark talks about how he treated Grace unfairly for a good decade or so after they were married because... I can't remember the exact details, but she did something with a boy while she and mark were still dating, and never told him about it because she was afraid he wouldn't want to marry her if she did.

Mark sates that Grace was right, that if he'd known what she did, he wouldn't have married her. Because of this, he distanced himself from her for like, a decade, maybe 2. And I just though, wow, what a dick. He can't get past something his wife did? Jeez!

But kept reading.

Grace actually writes a chapter (3, I think?) on wifely submission. It was a lot of circle talk, and even though I believed Christianity at the time, the anti-feminism was getting to be a bit much for me. I couldn't finish the book, and returned it unfinished because reading it gave me a stomach ache.

In later chapters, he goes through sexual acts and talks about what's ok and not ok (between married hetero couples only, of course.) I don't remember a lot of it, because I'm asexual and I don't care, so I only skimmed through it. I just know he talks about it.

My ex fundie friends figured out Grace must have had a "homosexual experience" because both Mark and Grace are open about having sex with others before marriage. Then Mark goes on to say he wouldn't have married her if he knew beforehand. He is so emotionally abuseive! He had this "revealed" to him in a dream and then he confronts his almost due to deliver pregnant wife!

I also have a HUGE problem with the "teaching" that women are not to refuse sex for any reason and then Mark giving the advice that couples should have anal intercourse! He makes me SICK!!!! *

*i have NO bias towards someone's sexuality if they are okay with it. That includes having same sex experiences or anal intercourse. I am objecting to Driscoll's abusive teachings and how he treats his wife.

[nokidsmom]

I hope that's not typical. Forgive your spouse if you want to and can, leave if you don't want to forgive or can't. But don't punish your spouse for a solid decade for hooking up with someone else one time years before you were even married. How cruel of him. I don't think that's typical of men at all, unless we're only discussing the subset of men who are vindictive and bad at marriage.

A male friend of mine was mad at his wife for a long time over the fact that she slept with someone she went on a date with while they were broken up. They had started dating, broke up, she briefly saw another guy, then they got back together. This was probably 15 years after the fact and he was still mad at her for doing this. He still referred to her as damaged goods. No kidding. I actually asked him, "you are still mad over this?" He struck me as very insecure and one way to make sure his wife didn't leave him was by making her insecure. It wasn't a matter of religion, they were not churchgoers but he did come from a fundie-lite background as a kid.

Incidentally, they are still married and it's probably going on 35 years by now.

[GolightlyGrrl]

A male friend of mine was mad at his wife for a long time over the fact that she slept with someone she went on a date with while they were broken up. They had started dating, broke up, she briefly saw another guy, then they got back together. This was probably 15 years after the fact and he was still mad at her for doing this. He still referred to her as damaged goods. No kidding. I actually asked him, "you are still mad over this?" He struck me as very insecure and one way to make sure his wife didn't leave him was by making her insecure. It wasn't a matter of religion, they were not churchgoers but he did come from a fundie-lite background as a kid.

Incidentally, they are still married and it's probably going on 35 years by now.

Ross Geller might have something to say about this:

[formergothardite]

A male friend of mine was mad at his wife for a long time over the fact that she slept with someone she went on a date with while they were broken up. They had started dating, broke up, she briefly saw another guy, then they got back together. This was probably 15 years after the fact and he was still mad at her for doing this. He still referred to her as damaged goods. No kidding. I actually asked him, "you are still mad over this?" He struck me as very insecure and one way to make sure his wife didn't leave him was by making her insecure. It wasn't a matter of religion, they were not churchgoers but he did come from a fundie-lite background as a kid.

Incidentally, they are still married and it's probably going on 35 years by now.

He sounds like a jerk. "Damaged good." :pull-hair: I don't think this is typical behavior though. If the men Sunshine is hanging around act like this guy and Mark Driscoll then she should find some new guy friends.

[gustava]

Driscoll plagiarism and threatens accuser?

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fait ... astor.html

[Rainytown]

I realize this topic has been discussed at FJ before. I hope this is okay to re-post. It seems that Mark Driscoll is winning friends and influencing people (and industries!) everywhere you look!

I work with someone who goes to Mars Hill Church. She and her husband had a meeting with one of the associate pastors over Driscoll's recent gaming of the New York Times bestseller list with his latest tome. They were told by a PASTOR that the church "only spent" $25,000 on the contract with the company that places books on the NYT for a fee and he claimed the books ordered and paid for to accomplish this feat were "paid for" by those ordering them -- no church funds were used for that purpose. Uh, no. The church spent $210,000. It seems the pastor lied, too, according to none other than Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovi ... alth-mode/

Pastors have been asked to resign for less. I'm wondering how the IRS is not interested in this little incident as well!