Re-raising that Allosaur: Lest we forget DP's MO

[MamaJunebug]

In 2007, the dust settled - but still stank - on the conflict between DP and several parties w/r/t "Raising The Allosaur," a documentary film; and on years of legal wrangling and the near-destruction of a man's life work (his privately owned museum).

From a website documenting the chicanery comes evidence not only that Doug Phillips Is A Tool VF but that he has mastered the copy/ paste tool.

The website reported at the time that

"...[Vision Forum] has issued a private letter suspending all dealings with Creation Adventures-as well as the sale of the film- 'pending a season of self-examination, re-evaluation, repentance and accountability.' One can only hope (but don’t hold your breath) that Doug Phillips will partake of such a season himself."

Oh how eloquent: "a season of self-examination, re-evaluation, repentance and accountability." Sounds like part of the original post-affair "confession," doesn't it?

The main reason for this thread is to never let the lesson of the Allosaur be forgotten, for what it teaches us a of Vision Forum's operations. Here's the website mentioned above. Link broken though I doubt they'd mind us looking it over.

Raisingthetruth.com/villainy-behind-the-mask-of-virtue-written-by-mary-gavin-terry-beh/

[MamaJunebug]

A website started to help the museum owner has a journal of what went on.

helpajoe.blogspot.com/2008/01/urgent-need.html?m=1

Again, DP's nothing if not predictable. Just like recently , he gets into trouble and is so sowwy...

2/18/03 email from Norris: “ ...Doug is in a heap of trouble.â€

2/21/03 Norris email: “Phillips .., is concerned about his license and (at least through Don) is expressing profound remorse..."

Keep reading for the per-person cost for the Allosaur dig. Some wealthy VF'ers were out there, then. R

[nelliebelle1197]

MamaJune, what does that mean about Doug being concerned about his license?

[MamaJunebug]

MamaJune, what does that mean about Doug being concerned about his license?

Nell's Bells (I love your handle!), apparently DP had mishandled thing so rudely that he was close to breaking several ethics rules. The details are at the website, which is a pretty quick read.

The man's modus operandi is bold and he appears to have used it well before this current situation.

[debrand]

So, at one point Vision Forum was in the red for over a million dollars before the allosaurus film.

In short, the controversy surrounds the excavation of an allosaurus discovered in northwest Colorado by landowner, Dana Forbes. Forbes, who originally found the allosaur in October 2000 and is featured in the beginning of Phillips’ film, was not given credit for the discovery. The Forbes abandoned both their land and their dream of blessing the creation community through tours and scientific studies on the land through the deceitful actions of Doug Phillips

I am confused. Doug did not credit the Forbes for their discovery and stole their work; however, I don't understand how someone can use such an important find to promote creationism either.

By the time the Vision Forum group (composed primarily of homeschool families that paid $999.00 per person) had departed, the skull had not yet been found.

My goodness, how does Phillips get people to keep giving him so much money?

Subsequently, legal demands and threats were made against Taylor to surrender the bones. Under threat of a lawsuit, and believing it wrong to sue a brother, Taylor reluctantly let them have it. The bones were taken to a makeshift “lab†owned by Doug Phillips.

Doug threatened to sue Taylor and so was breaking whatever religious rules the group had about suing one another. Apparently, Doug has a habit of not obeying the rules that he expects others to follow.

It is difficult for me to feel pity for Taylor. Yes, I know that his beliefs are that he should not sue a fellow Christian; however, Phillips was not acting very Christian like. By not counter suing, he allowed Phillips to get away with deceit and fool/hurt innocent people. The way that Vision Forum is set up, it appears to be a potential haven for abusers. Loyal people won't sue because it goes against their faith which means that abusers can take advantage of more people.

[MamaJunebug]

debrand wrote:

Doug threatened to sue Taylor and so was breaking whatever religious rules the group had about suing one another. Apparently, Doug has a habit of not obeying the rules that he expects others to follow.

It is difficult for me to feel pity for Taylor. Yes, I know that his beliefs are that he should not sue a fellow Christian; however, Phillips was not acting very Christian like. By not counter suing, he allowed Phillips to get away with deceit and fool/hurt innocent people. The way that Vision Forum is set up, it appears to be a potential haven for abusers. Loyal people won't sue because it goes against their faith which means that abusers can take advantage of more people.

Thank you for summarizing - this is the point I wanted to get across and only partly did so (I'll blame the awkwardity of working on an iphone): a guy like Doug will bilk anybody who's willing to be bilked, will intimidate anybody he can. I wouldn't expect the leopard to change his spots, not even after a fall of the epic proportions of what DP's experiencing.

He bears further watching and further exposure.

[DomWackTroll]

In 2007, the dust settled - but still stank - on the conflict between DP and several parties w/r/t "Raising The Allosaur," a documentary film; and on years of legal wrangling and the near-destruction of a man's life work (his privately owned museum).

From a website documenting the chicanery comes evidence not only that Doug Phillips Is A Tool VF but that he has mastered the copy/ paste tool.

The website reported at the time that

"...[Vision Forum] has issued a private letter suspending all dealings with Creation Adventures-as well as the sale of the film- 'pending a season of self-examination, re-evaluation, repentance and accountability.' One can only hope (but don’t hold your breath) that Doug Phillips will partake of such a season himself."

Oh how eloquent: "a season of self-examination, re-evaluation, repentance and accountability." Sounds like part of the original post-affair "confession," doesn't it?

The main reason for this thread is to never let the lesson of the Allosaur be forgotten, for what it teaches us a of Vision Forum's operations. Here's the website mentioned above. Link broken though I doubt they'd mind us looking it over.

Raisingthetruth.com/villainy-behind-the-mask-of-virtue-written-by-mary-gavin-terry-beh/

Doug sure does need a lot of seasons. And someone should tell him that his apologies make him sound like he's in a Midol commercial, inhaling the sweet smell of herbal tea and snuggling in an oversized sweater. Having "me time."

[MamaJunebug]

I had an article in front of me about yet another lawsuit by Doug against a hrch member bu cantfid it.

Heres a placeholder about a Ligonier Ministries similar suit

http://mininstrywatchman.wordpress.com/page/2/

I shall find that other story, I shall!!!

[MamaJunebug]

Not a legal situation - but more testimony to Doug's ... shall we say "cynical" attitude, which one would not expect to see from a "Godly" entrepreneur : the winner of the first of Doug's film festivals got rid of her (yes, a female won!) trophy and comments on the dishonesty:

.christiannatureofmusic.com/reflections/2012/6/13/saying-goodbye-to-the-saicff.html#.Upk71Zm9LCR

[debrand]

I had an article in front of me about yet another lawsuit by Doug against a hrch member bu cantfid it.

Heres a placeholder about a Ligonier Ministries similar suit

http://mininstrywatchman.wordpress.com/page/2/

I shall find that other story, I shall!!!

As Cleopatra wrote on another thread, Vision Forum appears to be a type of white fertility cult so it doesn't surprise me that some people are beginning to realize that Phillips and his gang have links to racists.

One thing that is beginning to frustrate me is the fact that so many people want to take the high road when dealing with Doug but don't want to protect his victims. The writer of the first letter states that he has information connecting Doug to racists.

I’ve talked this over with Frank Vance. Neither one of us are enthusiastic at this time about going down this path. I don’t want to say that what you’ve assembled is gossip, or that it’s factually wrong. You seem to have really done your homework, but it still just doesn’t seem right to us, even in spite of what Phillips is doing to us and the Epsteins. To me it seems like hitting below the belt. Just because Doug Phillips, through his “former interns†and Matt Chancey, are all hitting below the belt, it doesn’t give us the right to respond in kind.

What!? For goodness sakes, don't think about his potential victims or the people he will scam if you don't share the information. Protect Doug so that you won't feel bad about 'hitting beneath the belt." Why protect a racist?

Doug Phillips’ use of “former interns†and close personal friends masquerading as “independent investigators,†who in reality are nothing but political hatchet men, is malicious and vindictive. In my view Doug Phillips has accomplished nothing but to prove what the Epsteins were saying all along — Doug Phillips refuses to be held accountable, and anyone who attempts to do so will receive a “You’ll pay for this!†response.

Interesting. I wonder which of his former interns were used as 'independent investigators.' It is fascinating the information that we are able to glean about the internal workings of Vision Forum.

Ministry Watchman suspected that Vision Forum tried to hack the site.

I am surprised that Phillips never threatened to sue our site.

[MamaJunebug]

If I had access to more than an Iphone more frequently!!!

In one of the sites, someone writes that part of Doug's MO has been to threaten a lawsuit, and when the opponent shows signs of fear, to offer a settlement instead.

The viciousness. This from a man who doubtless rattled on at length about the calamity of Christians suing one another.

[RachelB]

Doug sure does need a lot of seasons. And someone should tell him that his apologies make him sound like he's in a Midol commercial, inhaling the sweet smell of herbal tea and snuggling in an oversized sweater. Having "me time."

My goodness, has he ever had time that is not "me time"? Dude does not need help with the self-love, so far as I can tell.

[Palimpsest]

If I had access to more than an Iphone more frequently!!!

In one of the sites, someone writes that part of Doug's MO has been to threaten a lawsuit, and when the opponent shows signs of fear, to offer a settlement instead.

The viciousness. This from a man who doubtless rattled on at length about the calamity of Christians suing one another.

I'm sure this is true and I'm sure many other people would be coming forward with similar stories, except Doug undoubtedly includes a gag order in any settlement.

I can't say I can summon up much sympathy here for Joe Taylor. The real victims seem to be the Forbes family. Joe comes over as a bumbling charlatan who can't be bothered to get contracts signed, and a self-described "scientist" with no real qualifications except 20 years disturbing fossil sites. Creationist paleonologist seems an oxymoron. :lol:

On a lighter note, I was delighted to find this gem. My emphases:

As the web promotions continued to flow from Vision Forum, Taylor and his team became concerned not only by the slant the articles were taking but also by the faulty science being promoted. On July 29th Taylor e-mailed Bob Renaud at Vision Forum and respectfully tried to correct Phillips. Joe aware of the criticism one can receive for misinformation, warned Vision Forum that they might be denounced by others in the creation community if they continued to promote mistakes. Joe made a list of some of the items that he knew were wrong. Several issues Taylor brought up were; “to say that Allosaurus are believed to be a “close relative of T-rex†is an evolutionary position. They are Allosaurids, T-rexes are Tayrannosaurids. Als have three fingers. Rex has two. Their heads are constructed differently, cranial capacity notwithstanding.

Oh horrors! Faulty "science" not supporting creationism and Doug actually took an evolutionary position! :pink-shock:

That same day Bob Renaud responded to Taylor’s email. “Doug is rushing around from state to state and asked me to respond to your letter…Doug wanted me to respectfully disagree with points 1 through 4 in your note, given the fact that it is Doug’s belief that the Allosaurus is most likely the same “kind†as the T-Rex, and thus under biblical taxonomy it is correct to say that they are relatives because they represent variations within a kind.â€

And Doug is the authority on fossils as on everything else. :roll: