Not All Christian Marriages are Happily Ever After

[kpmom]

I posted on FJ a few weeks back about this woman's situation here;

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=626

She posts on a Christan homeschooling forum I lurk on. She has had a nightmare of a life the last few years with a hubby who won't provide for his family. They live in a freezing cold barn (in rural Pa.) as their house is not livable, he mocks her in front of the kids, he refuses to sell some land or livestock (he's a farmer) to try to improve their living conditions. On and on.

She met with a couple from her church a few weeks back to discuss her situation. They were to discuss, research, pray, and get back to her. I have a feeling they have not done so, based on her very sad post she made today about losing her faith in the Christian community.

Here is her most recent post;

chfweb.net/index.php?t=msg&th=75941&start=0&S=6b623dfe98de7bd0f0d5e6c6aad5895f

[fundiefan]

I DO agree that the woman needs to change her thinking. But, she needs to change it in the direction of self preservation and survival mode, not in the direction of any religion or stupid patriarchy crap.

I feel bad for her - I do. It makes me sick and there is a part of me that wants to make it all better for her. At the same time, how did it get this far without action in the first place? Because she adheres to dangerous, destructive beliefs and has not acted outside of them, regardless of the cost. She won't go outside a pre-determined, controlled world. Her 'eternal soul' is, apparently, more important than the safety and health of herself and her children in the here and now. Holding to beliefs and people who do not have her best interest in mind at all, much less that of her kids.

I hope she loses her faith. Not because I want her to have the emotional pain that goes with that, but because it appears that is the only way she is going to save herself and her kids.

Her husband needs to be taken out to the back forty and have the crap beat out of him. Then he needs to be stuck in a shack with nothing and forced to fend for himself. Since that will never happen, she needs a major, all encompassing mind shift.

[Childless]

I know that weak people can be brainwashed into believing this lifestyle is good. However, I still hold her responsible for what is happening to her children right now. When is she going to pull her head out of her ass and realize that she is basically abusing her children by letting this continue? Why has she allowed it to get this bad? She needs to show some strength of character and leave the man. She needs to do what is best for her children, which is her job as a parent.

I would never allow my child to live like this. Even if it meant that I had to work 3 jobs. Even if it meant I had to give up custody of him. I would do whatever it took to ensure he was healthy and educated. I have very little compassion for people who refuse to do everything in their power to provide for their children. What I want to do is go there and take those children and bring them home where they could have a square meal and a warm bed. I would leave her to fend for herself. It's her fault she is still in this situation. Why is she wasting time talking to idiot church members? Take your stuff and your children and leave lady!

[browngrl]

Thanks for the update.

I feel sorry for this woman. I know that many abused women have a very tough time leaving an abusive relationship. I know that this woman may have few if any resources. However, I think that once you have children, you become responsible for their wellbeing. No matter how hard it is and even if you have to sacrifice a lot to do it. I hope she finds the strength or if she can't find the strength - I hope she finds someone else who can care for her children.

[masagoroll]

She needs to realize that her children will probably grow up and THANK HER if she leaves him. My mom is fundie-lite, and she is still grateful as hell that her mother divorced her (cheating, alcoholic, wife-beating) father! She knows that her mother did the right thing!

ETA: I just read the post and I can't believe that people say "Are you sure you are filling up DH's love tank?" OMG. Like that will solve all their problems. I feel really bad for her.

[fundiefan]

Thanks for the update.

I feel sorry for this woman. I know that many abused women have a very tough time leaving an abusive relationship. I know that this woman may have few if any resources. However, I think that once you have children, you become responsible for their wellbeing. No matter how hard it is and even if you have to sacrifice a lot to do it. I hope she finds the strength or if she can't find the strength - I hope she finds someone else who can care for her children.

There is a slight difference between the 'average' (for lack of a better word) abused woman and women of patriarchy. In most cases, abused women don't walk in with their eyes wide open. The abuse comes after the man 'has' her. It isn't a mutual decision to live that way. It's a process of abuse, humiliation, turning yourself off, etc...

With patriarchy and 'biblical' marriages, or religious marriages or whatever they are called by whatever group, the women agree to be second class and submissive. They choose it. They promote and perpetuate their own position as a lesser person who has to do whatever the man says. Granted, I'm sure they do it without even imagining their so-called godly husband would ever screw them over, but they make the choice none the less. They say it in their marriage vows. They say it on their blogs, to their friends, to anyone who will listen - WOMEN SUBMIT TO YOUR HEADSHIP, no matter what he does or says; no matter his willingness or ability to take care of you and your kids; no matter his complete disregard for your well being. Kiss his ass all the more and god will fix him, but leave it up to god; you sit there and take whatever the hell he says, does or wants and submit more and leave it up to god to fix him. While YOU suffer, god is in control and you cannot wrench that control from god or your husband.

They sell it to themselves and everyone else.

[kpmom]

ETA: I just read the post and I can't believe that people say "Are you sure you are filling up DH's love tank?" OMG. Like that will solve all their problems. I feel really bad for her.

Wasn't that remark just awful? It's always, *always* the woman's fault. Painful as I'm sure this is for her, if it helps her awaken from this patriarchy b.s., maybe it could end up being the best thing that could happen to her.

[Cran]

Hasn't it been touted by all this women who luuuuuuuuuuuuuuurve their lifestyle that it is a kind of trade of, the women is submissive, does the housework and the children and in turn, the man provides for them?

I remember reading, unfortunately I do not know where, obnly that it was on the site or blog of one of those patriarchy-loving women, that a woman can and should leave her husband if he constantly fails to keep his part of the bargain.

That poor woman should change her way of thinking indeed. Self-worth should have a far greater part in it.

Oh, sh*/, forgot, self-worth means not giving God glory because you want to achieve something for yourself! :naughty:

[bicyclecat]

I wonder if this is a misguided idea that things will somehow get better, or whether this poor woman really has nowhere to go. If she doesn't have anyone who can physically help her, she may very well be stuck there, as it sounds like she has no money, no alternative shelter to go to or any help at all. I'm not a huge fan of CPS calls, but it may be the only way to help her and, more importantly, her children.

[browngrl]

There is a slight difference between the 'average' (for lack of a better word) abused woman and women of patriarchy. In most cases, abused women don't walk in with their eyes wide open. The abuse comes after the man 'has' her. It isn't a mutual decision to live that way. It's a process of abuse, humiliation, turning yourself off, etc...

With patriarchy and 'biblical' marriages, or religious marriages or whatever they are called by whatever group, the women agree to be second class and submissive. They choose it. They promote and perpetuate their own position as a lesser person who has to do whatever the man says. Granted, I'm sure they do it without even imagining their so-called godly husband would ever screw them over, but they make the choice none the less. They say it in their marriage vows. They say it on their blogs, to their friends, to anyone who will listen - WOMEN SUBMIT TO YOUR HEADSHIP, no matter what he does or says; no matter his willingness or ability to take care of you and your kids; no matter his complete disregard for your well being. Kiss his ass all the more and god will fix him, but leave it up to god; you sit there and take whatever the hell he says, does or wants and submit more and leave it up to god to fix him. While YOU suffer, god is in control and you cannot wrench that control from god or your husband.

They sell it to themselves and everyone else.

You make a good point. I find the whole submission thing is the root of much of what I find appalling about fundamentalism.

However, I think the "average" abused woman also has a faulty mind set. In many cases abusive women have come from an abusive childhood. I am not sure what is so very different with seeing your mother get beaten up/getting abused yourself is from growing up being told every day you are LESS and that you must submit. Both are very very wrong. At some point every abused woman needs to stop and think about why she got where she is and what she can do to avoid it in the future.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I wonder if this is a misguided idea that things will somehow get better, or whether this poor woman really has nowhere to go. If she doesn't have anyone who can physically help her, she may very well be stuck there, as it sounds like she has no money, no alternative shelter to go to or any help at all. I'm not a huge fan of CPS calls, but it may be the only way to help her and, more importantly, her children.

I agree. I'd hate to see the mom lose custody of her children, but if she loses temporary custody, then it may make it easier for her to leave her crappy husband and get a job. In the meantime, her children would be warm and well fed

[bicyclecat]

I agree. I'd hate to see the mom lose custody of her children, but if she loses temporary custody, then it may make it easier for her to leave her crappy husband and get a job. In the meantime, her children would be warm and well fed

Exactly. The welfare of those children is #1 here and if they're living in a freezing cold barn... they need some help and now.

I've had to rescue a friend many years ago from an abusive spouse. He had such a stranglehold on her that she had no money, no transportation and he refused to file for her immigration papers (she's Canadian,) so she couldn't get a job.

Without getting into details, it took a LOT of us and a lot of resources to get her out of there, back to her home country and away from the douchebag. It was NOT easy or cheap and I can't imagine that many people are willing to "intrude" into a situation like this. With my friend, there were obvious signs that he was beating her and, when she asked for help, there were a lot of us there for her. She was lucky. MANY women don't have this support network in place. MANY women don't have the financial resources that we were able to pool together for her.

It sounds like this woman is extremely isolated, both geographically and socially. There's nobody around to help her. She needs what my wonderful friend needed. Someone needs to find her some shelter, pool some funds together and physically remove her and her children from the situation. Other churches, even though she doesn't belong to the congregation, may be willing to help. The YWCA, Goodwill, the Salvation Army and other organizations may be able to help. CPS needs to be called and called and called, until they do something.

If I had more info about this poor woman and wasn't leaving for Europe in two days, I'd be all over this. But the time for platitudes and useless advice (fill up his love tank? I'd prefer to kick him in his f*** love tank!) is over. This woman needs an intervention and she needs one before someone dies of starvation or freezes to death.

[apple1]

I pretty much agree with most of the responses.

I do have one comment, however. If this is in the US, I doubt it is "freezing cold". The problem with living in a barn right now is more likely heat stroke.

[bicyclecat]

I pretty much agree with most of the responses.

I do have one comment, however. If this is in the US, I doubt it is "freezing cold". The problem with living in a barn right now is more likely heat stroke.

Right now, yes, but give it a few months. PA winters are mighty cold.

The situation just sucks all around and things like this get me VERY riled up. I'm sorry if I'm getting overly upset about it all.

[apple1]

Right now, yes, but give it a few months. PA winters are mighty cold.

The situation just sucks all around and things like this get me VERY riled up. I'm sorry if I'm getting overly upset about it all.

Don't apologize. This kind of thing makes me very upset, too.

BTW Heat stroke can kill, too. It's not just a matter of comfort or not.

[fundifugee]

If, per the previous thread on MIchelleB states, they have an income but the Headship doesn't spend it on looking after the home and kids, what DOES he spend it on?

[SunnyAndrsn]

If, per the previous thread on MIchelleB states, they have an income but the Headship doesn't spend it on looking after the home and kids, what DOES he spend it on?

a girlfriend?

[SunnyAndrsn]

I guess the million dollar question then, Free Jingerites, is this: Is there anything that we can do to help this woman and her children? If so what?

Transport her to a shelter for women?

Offer money?

Offer food (in the form of gift cards perhaps?)

Offer?????

The problem with the lack of meaningful assistance thus far is the magnitude involved. As a previous poster said, it was hard to come up with the resources to help ONE person, and we are talking about a mom and 7 children. She needs a job, a decent place to live, food, shelter, and child care. That's a freakin' lot of big problems.

If anyone has anything brilliant that will help, I'm in.

[forever ago]

I guess the million dollar question then, Free Jingerites, is this: Is there anything that we can do to help this woman and her children? If so what?

Transport her to a shelter for women?

Offer money?

Offer food (in the form of gift cards perhaps?)

Offer?????

The problem with the lack of meaningful assistance thus far is the magnitude involved. As a previous poster said, it was hard to come up with the resources to help ONE person, and we are talking about a mom and 7 children. She needs a job, a decent place to live, food, shelter, and child care. That's a freakin' lot of big problems.

If anyone has anything brilliant that will help, I'm in.

If any PA Jingerites can somehow contact her, that would be an important first step. We definitely should offer her a job and transportation out of there.

[jaelh]

4 children, not 7.

the money goes into the farm.

am in contact with her.

she'll take money - pm me if you want her paypal.

if you can find her work/housing etc. that would be great. i think she has a possible house lined up in her community, she needs to make rent though to secure it.

[auntdoc]

I worked at a shelter for a couple of years. It isn't the greatest alternative but they will help you get on your feet, let you know what resources are available in the community so moving away from the abusive behavior can really stop. Often the moms go back because they can't see any longterm solutions. They'll also have her work with a victim's advocate so no matter what he tells her, she'll have someone who really knows legally what can or will happen. The shelter can also provide services without the mom going into the shelter if she has some place safe to stay.

[kpmom]

I believe she posted she looked into women's shelters in her area, but they were for physically abused women only.

Does that sound correct to those of you who know about shelters?

[jaelh]

I believe she posted she looked into women's shelters in her area, but they were for physically abused women only.

Does that sound correct to those of you who know about shelters?

it is correct.

[Witsec1]

Has she looked for an agency that provides emergency rent assistance? Quick google turned up this list for PA:

http://www.rentassistance.us/st/pennsylvania

[Childless]

I wouldn't be adverse to helping out if I knew she would definitely leave the idiot. I'm not giving her money that he will just take because she decided to stay. If I'm going to help her, she has to be willing to help herself also.