Atheists and a cross

[slh12280]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/athei ... eum-52837/

 

Thoughts?

[Alecto]

I have to disagree, because this is a memorial AND museum, and that "cross" is a part of the 9/11 experience and lore. But then again, I am looking at it from an academic and historical perspective. I think it would be different if it was just a memorial.

[emmiedahl]

I dunno. Some people find the idea of a cross over the grave of a loved one very offensive. Not just atheists, but Mormons, Jews, Muslims, there has to be others.

9/11 was not about Islam vs. Christianity. It was about Terrorists vs. America. Having a cross there kinda gives the wrong impression.

[O Latin]

I dunno. Some people find the idea of a cross over the grave of a loved one very offensive. Not just atheists, but Mormons, Jews, Muslims, there has to be others.

9/11 was not about Islam vs. Christianity. It was about Terrorists vs. America. Having a cross there kinda gives the wrong impression.

Interesting point. The article seemed kind of vague. I couldn't tell if the two beams were found already in the shape of a cross or if the cross was made out of two beams that were found separately, but either way it seems like it could be viewed more as a piece of art than a religious symbol.

[valsa]

As an atheist, I disagree with the group trying to stop the cross from being displayed. This wasn't a cross that was made to be displayed in the memorial/museum, it's actually part of the building itself and has meaning within the experience of 9/11 (I know I'm wording that poorly...)

However, if there are any other religious symbols foreign to the 9/11 site itself, I'd agree with them either blocking it or making them include religious symbols of all religions.

[Alecto]

Interesting point. The article seemed kind of vague. I couldn't tell if the two beams were found already in the shape of a cross or if the cross was made out of two beams that were found separately, but either way it seems like it could be viewed more as a piece of art than a religious symbol.

The two beams were found as the wreckage was moved to search for survivors or remains. It wasn't artificially created, which is why to me it's less of a religious piece and more of a historical piece.

[xDreamerx]

I dunno. Some people find the idea of a cross over the grave of a loved one very offensive. Not just atheists, but Mormons, Jews, Muslims, there has to be others.

9/11 was not about Islam vs. Christianity. It was about Terrorists vs. America. Having a cross there kinda gives the wrong impression.

Agreed. I say just let other people add their religious symbols if they like and that way everyone is happy. This reminds me of the ground zero mosque debate. I understand it is sensitive for some people, but banning it just implies that it's a war with Islam instead of a war with terrorists. Surely there's room for everyone.

[emmiedahl]

I didn't mean I would sue to have it removed, and I know it has historical significance. Just, I understand where the atheists are coming from. If you were atheist and an atheist relative died there, it would be upsetting.

[bbfreethinker]

I like Hemant Mehta's (the Friendly Atheist) comment's:

1) The cross itself isn’t a miracle. That’s how the buildings were made — with steel girders crossing each other. If you found them in the shape of a perfect circle, maybe that would be worth an eyebrow-raise. Two steel girders hitting each other at a right angle? Not so much.

2) The cross was a symbol of hope for a lot of people. Not atheists. Not non-Christians. Probably not even all Christians. But a bunch of Christians found solace in it and it took on a life of its own. (Kind of like the “Seven in Heaven†phrase stuck to a particular group of first responders who died that day.)

His full post does a good job of examining the issue:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... 911-cross/

[emmiedahl]

Also, I kind of question whether a Christian symbol is right for the scene. It is divisive at a memorial that is supposed to bring us all together as Americans. I dunno, I have really mixed feelings. I kind of felt the same way about the mosque, like why upset people at an already upsetting place? But the mosque was pretty far away from Ground Zero while this is right there on top it, right?

[Alecto]

I do have to wonder what else will be included. Context is the key here. Will there be mention of the Mosque that existed IN the WTC?

[Patsy]

Before I read about it, I assumed it was a proposal to have the cross put as the main memorial. Mixed feelings: that would be non-representational, but at the same time it would be SO meaningful for a large number of people that I honestly don't know whether it would be okay to decide not to have it.

But featuring it in a museum? Yeah, absolutely. So long as nobody is claiming that it represents everyone's experience, or is actually miraculous, I don't see anything contentious there.

[nutella addict]

I read a different article on it (no idea where it was, so don't have the link) and it said that they happened to find it in the wreckage and it gave a lot of people hope, and that's why they want to include it as it was part of the story. I heard that other religious symbols were also going to be added. I don't think there's anything wrong with including something that helped the people (mentally/emotionally/spiritually/whatever) in the clean-up in the exhibit.

[Sola]

I saw this in the British press yesterday. My first thought was that it shouldn't be a cross if they aren't going to have symbolism for all other religions. But then I thought about the war memorials around the UK. OK they are from another time (WW1/WW2) where Christianity had more of a hold in the UK, but we (as in *I*) do not object to crosses on those.

I do think that the fairest thing to do would be to ensure that other religions have representation there.

[mirele]

The two beams were found as the wreckage was moved to search for survivors or remains. It wasn't artificially created, which is why to me it's less of a religious piece and more of a historical piece.

Yeah, but the whole building was made up of crossbeams, probably thousands of them. It wouldn't have taken much looking to find a crossbeam in the wreckage.

If it was part of an exhibit of "things we found at the WTC site" and had other items with it, that would be fine.

But given the whole "crusader" mentality, given that 9/11 has been used to bash all Muslims for the last decade, I don't think it's appropriate to set it apart.

Why am I getting flashbacks to Helena, the emperor Constantine's mother, going souvenir hunting in Jerusalem, telling her servants, "Dig here" and allegedly finding the "True Cross"? (Three centuries later? ORLY?) Or a statement made by someone in the Middle Ages or early Renaissance that if all the pieces of the True Cross were brought together, you could build a ship out of them?