Teaching our daughters to respect

[dairyfreelife]

"When I'm married, I won't iron my husband's shirts! If he wants them ironed, he can just iron them himself!"

"When I'm married, my husband will have to do the cooking, because I won't have the patience for it!"

"When I'm married, my husband won't tell me what to do! I'll do as I please!"

I'm especially saddened to hear these statements, because they have come from girls who are being brought up in Christian homes! Where did these ideas come from? Ultimately, from the same one who tempted Eve in the garden! However, I've been thinking about where these girls have picked up these attitudes. I've identified three likely sources: from media (the books and magazines they read and the movies and TV shows they watch), from their friends, or sadly, from their own mothers

Are you modeling respect for your husband and men in general, or are you joining the crowd in tearing down, belittling, disrespecting, and disdaining men??

What crowd belittles and disdains men? None I've ever been around.

yestheyareallours.com/2012/08/marriage-monday-teaching-respect-to-our.html

[smores]

Wait, I'm confused on how not cooking or not ironing means you're tearing down men? If any man I know admitted that not ironing a shirt means your wife is tearing you down and possibly got upset over it, I think I would have them evaluated, because that is not a normal response, ever.

[debrand]

Just like I've met men who don't respect women, I've met women who don't respect men. These people certainly aren't the norm though. However, asking your husband to care for his own clothing is not a sign of disrespect. Many women work outside the home and it makes sense that each individual care for their own items. Of course, sometimes one person will simply be better at something and might offer to help their spouse. For some odd reason, my husband irons anything that needs ironing. I don't know why he does it better then me but he does. He doesn't have to do the ironing but its a nice extra that he does for me. Likewise, I do extra things for him.

They need to see their mother being loved and cherished and their father being treated with respect

Can we stop with this crappy myth? You can't love a spouse who you don't respect. Certainly you can lust for them, objectify them, become obsessed with them etc. I want to be respected. If I am not respect then I won't feel loved. All the sweet words or flowers in the world won't make me happy.

[Jezebel]

What crowd belittles and disdains men? None I've ever been around.

yestheyareallours.com/2012/08/marriage-monday-teaching-respect-to-our.html

I've known plenty of individual women who belittle and disdain men, but a "crowd?" No.

And since when has refusing to iron shirts, cook, or be ordered about been "belittling and disdaining" men?

I refuse to iron men's shirts. They're a pain in the ass, and every man should know how to iron his own if he needs to. If I'm already doing laundry, I'll run a load of shirts for my guy because it takes very little effort. But if he wants them ironed? He can take them to the cleaners. My time is worth something, and the cost of having a load of shirts ironed at the cleaners is a lot cheaper than the cost of my time.

I don't cook because I don't enjoy it and am not very good at it. And again, my time is valuable to me. Having other things I would like to do in this life besides slave away in the kitchen in no way belittles or disdains men. Not the good ones who are truly comfortable with and secure in their own masculinity, at any rate.

And while I'm all for cooperation and mutual respect, I will not be ordered about. I am not a servant, a child, or in any way a subordinate. I will consider thoughtful, polite requests, and if they are reasonable I will agree to them on a case-by-case basis. But expecting obedience simply because he's The Man and I'm the woman? You bet I'm going to belittle and disdain that shit. It deserves nothing less.

[slickcat79]

So, I was struck by this first:

For the past several weeks, we have been considering the greatest need of our husbands, which is to be respected and admired. Conversely, our greatest need as wives is to be loved and cherished.

I think it's overgeneralizing to be sure, possibly even offensive depending on how it plays out. Both partners in a relationship need love and respect, even if she does consider those things to be two sides of the same coin. Reading a little further, I saw that she has also already written a post on how this blather applies to boys, and I was encouraged.

Surely the flip-side of a post about how to teach daughters to respect their men would be how to teach sons to cherish their wives?

Nope :roll:

In the same way that our husbands' greatest need is to be respected and admired, our young adult sons also need to be treated with respect.

I encourage you to treat your young adult sons with the same respect with which you should be treating your husband. Look for ways to admire them, praise them, encourage them, believe in them, and treat them with esteem. Never criticize or tear them down in their areas of manly pride; instead look for ways to build them up in those areas

Oh, FFS :doh: Because only boys need the freedom to become independent adults.

[MissA]

Whereas if you substitute "wife" for "husband" in any of those statements, not only is the young lad not being disdainful of his future partner, he's actually an exemplary junior patriarch! Bless you, double standard!

Why is it so difficult for these people to admit that housekeeping is mostly crappy and unenjoyable? I can't imagine any of them wake up in the morning and go "Oh, BOY, today I get to push around the VACUUM! Just like I've done every day for the past twenty years, yaaay!" It doesn't mean that it's not important, or that it doesn't have to be done: lots of important things are tedious and unpleasant. But even if you think God has commanded you to be the sole person in charge of these tasks, it seems like a lot to ask young girls to sit up and beg for it.

[CanadianHippie]

I encourage you to treat your young adult sons with the same respect with which you should be treating your husband. Look for ways to admire them, praise them, encourage them, believe in them, and treat them with esteem. Never criticize or tear them down in their areas of manly pride; instead look for ways to build them up in those areas

Oh, FFS :doh: Because only boys need the freedom to become independent adults.

[Pudicitia]

Why does all fundy advice for treating men sound like advice for dealing with someone with chronic and unstable low self-esteem?

If anything is doing down men, it's that.

[Deleted07]

PUHLEASE, I don't even iron for myself... its called Wash and Wear! lol!

I do enjoy cooking, but heck you can make your own damn sammiches and breakfast unless its a special occassion, and cleanup after yourself if you dare make a mess, I'm not your Mummy and you're not a child! Would expect the same for myself!

I do agree to an extent that no partner is going to *tell* me what to do. We can discuss things, and my partner could give me advise and that works two fold, I would never presume to TELL my partner what to do and lay the law down like that! Each member in a relationship has to consider the others feelings about whatever situation it might be about.

I love how these women seem to think you're either a doormat or a Viper! From one extreme to another! Get real!!!

[VintageJen1984]

What crowd belittles and disdains men? None I've ever been around.

yestheyareallours.com/2012/08/marriage-monday-teaching-respect-to-our.html

Maybe she heard that from me. If you put an iron in my hand, more often than not I will make it look worse than it did before. I manage to iron sharp wrinkles into thing. It's probably better off that he do it himself or send them out.

[ADoyle90815]

Maybe she heard that from me. If you put an iron in my hand, more often than not I will make it look worse than it did before. I manage to iron sharp wrinkles into thing. It's probably better off that he do it himself or send them out.

I'm also one who irons sharp wrinkles into clothing, but fortunately, I have the permanent press setting on my dryer that does tumble press. As long as I hang up clothing as soon as the dryer is done and the buzzer goes off, it looks like it had been ironed by someone who knows what they're doing.

As for Zsu, it seems as if she attracts people who could be even crazier than she is.

[merrily]

PUHLEASE, I don't even iron for myself... its called Wash and Wear! lol!

I do enjoy cooking, but heck you can make your own damn sammiches and breakfast unless its a special occassion, and cleanup after yourself if you dare make a mess, I'm not your Mummy and you're not a child! Would expect the same for myself!

I do agree to an extent that no partner is going to *tell* me what to do. We can discuss things, and my partner could give me advise and that works two fold, I would never presume to TELL my partner what to do and lay the law down like that! Each member in a relationship has to consider the others feelings about whatever situation it might be about.

I love how these women seem to think you're either a doormat or a Viper! From one extreme to another! Get real!!!

They see the world in black and white. Of course you're either a sinner or redeemed! :roll:

[LucySnowe]

If my husband needs his shirt ironed, which only happens if he has a job interview or a wedding to attend, there is a lovely dry cleaners about five minutes' walk from where I live where they will cheerfully do this for a relatively small sum of money, and do so far better than I ever could. I think the total amount of money we have spent there in 18 months for ironing, dry cleaning, and dress mending is less than the cost of a good iron and ironing board (which we have no space for in our apartment anyway). Everyone wins!

And yet ensuring that my husband is well-clad - because guess which of us actually remembers to bring the stuff in nine times out of ten - doesn't get me any brownie points with Les Fundies.

[Beammeup]

I will be honest, my husband does a much better job ironing than I do. He's very picky about things like that, and I love it when he irons my clothing. As an alternative, like LucySnowe said, there is always the dry cleaners. Once a long time ago we went and stayed at a friend's house when my husband had a job interview. She told me to go iron his shirt, and I told him to do it, and she was shocked. Then my husband told her he didn't want me anywhere near his shirts because I always manage to burn them.

[LucySnowe]

Then my husband told her he didn't want me anywhere near his shirts because I always manage to burn them.

That's one way to get out of doing the ironing. :D

[Cran]

My boyfriend likes to cook and bake. Maybe I should tell him he's emasculating himself?

Btw, if we moved in together, I would probably do the major part of cleaning, washing and ironing, because he's asthmatic and has severe allergies, but I would expect him to take over yard work, cooking and errands in exchange.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Umm, my first year of college I had to ask a girl on my floor to help me iron some dress pants. I hate ironing and mostly don't see the need for it. I only ever bought an iron so I could try iron-on decals and the like. If by some miracle I learn to iron something like a men's shirt correctly, sure, I'll do it for my husband on occasion. Just like he would buy tampons for me on occasion. Key word, occasion.

As for cooking, I'm not much of a cook, but I'm starting to get into it thanks to Pinterest. But I also go to a predominantly culinary school, so if I meet some master chef here and marry him, yeah...I probably won't be cooking much.

And no significant other of mine will EVER *tell* me what to do. Suggest, sure. Advise, yeah. But tell me unequivocally I can or cannot do something? Hell to the no.

[sparkles]

I would actually have been pretty upset if my daughter had made blanket "I won't..." pronouncements like the above and I would have felt the same way if I had a son who made similar "I expect/demand..." pronouncements about his future partner. To me, those types of statements are just as rigid on the liberal side as the strict gender roles defined by the fundies. I don't think the who-does-what aspects of a relationship should be based on stereotypes and expectations, but compromise and consideration. I'd say the division of labor between my husband and me is fairly equal, divided up by who's better at a particular task anf/or who's available to take it on at any given time. Most of the time we cook our own means because of schedules and differing likes and dislikes, but often one of us takes it on for the two of us. Dishes are pretty much the same, but if one of us is tired or busy--because we both have second jobs--we'll pick up the slack for each other. On rare occasions, Mr. Sparkles has asked me to iron something for him and I'm okay with that, even though I hate ironing and can barely remember where the iron is, because he ASKED, not demanded or expected that it was my job simply because I'm a woman. For years, he did the laundry and most of the cleaning because I also worked from home in addition to my full-time gig and at that time, he only had his 9-5 job. He never once felt belittled, emasculated or put upon because IT JUST MADE SENSE to do things that way. If he'd ever whined about doing "women's work"... So yeah, saying "I won't" or "I'll never" just seems wrong to me. There should never be any absolutes in a relationship. Something the fundies need to learn.

[Kaylee]

My husband works in a factory, so I don't have to iron shirts. The only ironing I ever do is for my own clothes. If he needed it, I'd iron his but, if h was working the type of job where he needed to wear a freshly ironed shirt each day, I assume we could also afford to send them to the dry cleaner and have them pressed.

I do all of the cooking, because my husband never learned how, but he has learned to fix a few things and will cook or pick up food when I am busy or not feeling well. I don't know of any households where the husband does most of the cooking. If the woman doesn't cook, most of the people I know just eat out.

I'd be pissed if my husband "told me what to do" or told me I couldn't "do as I please". I usually "obey" if he asks me to do or not to something, but that's different than telling. I respect him and he respects me, and part of that is giving either free reign in most areas to make our own choices and do as we please. I tired being the super-submissive fembot type and asking him about everything for a while and it aggravated him and made me resentful, so no thanks.

[Childless]

I do most of the cooking. I hate cooking with a passion, but I do it so that my son has healthy meals to eat. In exchange for this, my husband does the dishes and cleans the kitchen. My husband does the laundry because he's home all day and I clean the bathrooms because cleaning toilets makes him gag. We split up chores based on who does something the best/who has the time to do it/what chores a person can stand to do/etc. That's how we roll. We split up the chores so that each of us has time to ourselves to do something we enjoy. It makes life a lot more pleasant.

[Childless]

I would actually have been pretty upset if my daughter had made blanket "I won't..." pronouncements like the above and I would have felt the same way if I had a son who made similar "I expect/demand..." pronouncements about his future partner. To me, those types of statements are just as rigid on the liberal side as the strict gender roles defined by the fundies. I don't think the who-does-what aspects of a relationship should be based on stereotypes and expectations, but compromise and consideration. I'd say the division of labor between my husband and me is fairly equal, divided up by who's better at a particular task anf/or who's available to take it on at any given time. Most of the time we cook our own means because of schedules and differing likes and dislikes, but often one of us takes it on for the two of us. Dishes are pretty much the same, but if one of us is tired or busy--because we both have second jobs--we'll pick up the slack for each other. On rare occasions, Mr. Sparkles has asked me to iron something for him and I'm okay with that, even though I hate ironing and can barely remember where the iron is, because he ASKED, not demanded or expected that it was my job simply because I'm a woman. For years, he did the laundry and most of the cleaning because I also worked from home in addition to my full-time gig and at that time, he only had his 9-5 job. He never once felt belittled, emasculated or put upon because IT JUST MADE SENSE to do things that way. If he'd ever whined about doing "women's work"... So yeah, saying "I won't" or "I'll never" just seems wrong to me. There should never be any absolutes in a relationship. Something the fundies need to learn.

I agree. Demanding that someone do something or someone demanding that they absolutely won't do something are pretty much the same thing. Marriage is a compromise. Everyone has to do things they don't want to do and everyone gets to do things they enjoy. If you refuse to compromise, you aren't going to have a good relationship. My take on the original post was that those statements were coming from teenage girls. Teenagers are still kids and still immature. Hell, people in their early twenties are still immature to a degree. With a little growing up, those attitudes will most likely change. This is why I encourage young kids to wait to get married. Age and maturity up the odds of having a successful marriage ten fold.

[jenny_islander]

Performance again. Don't stop to think, "What would be loving, respectful, and charitable in this relationship with this man?" Just go down the checklist. My husband wants to grab his own bowl of cereal before he leaves for work at chicken o'clock so that I am rested and able to teach homeschool and do the housework I have to tackle in 5 minutes. Should I go martyr myself for pancakes anyway? And if I had proclaimed before marriage that I would NO MATTER WHAT fix that big old breakfast, because that's what good wives DO END OF STORY, wouldn't I feel silly when his work schedule changed?

2 minutes until cleaning time. I am glad that he does his own laundry most of the time so I have fewer loads to wrangle. If I had pledged to iron all his shirts to show my great respect, what would it mean that everything he owns is permanent press?

1 minute. I loathe washing dishes. It isn't a religious thing or a sign of my great wifeliness. He just hates dishwashing, hates it with a purple blazing passion, so I take it on. Because that's what it means to be my husband's partner. Meanwhile he takes on the spiders and dead voles because I recoil from that kind of thing in disgust, not because he is galloping in with trumpets blaring to rescue poor little me.

Dishes, dishes, UGH, off I go.

[Terrie]

Respecting someone doesn't mean acting like their personal servant.

[Coconut Flan]

Working out what works for each couple is key. My dearly departed did morning with the kids almost completely on his own. His work had fixed business hours that began after daycare/school drop off. My work had early hours plus flexibility to come in earlier. So I got ready and left and then was able to get off earlier in the afternoon and take care of all the after school stuff.

I ironed a shirt once. It was a military uniform and he got into a little trouble about the creases not being right or some such. He found the base laundry/dry cleaners who knew how to do the dress uniforms perfectly. :)

[Maggie Mae]

Neither me nor my partner (bf) iron. We wash all of our clothes together, darks, whites, pastels, wools, cotton, poly blends. I pull out stuff I don't want to dry in the dryer and hang it up. We fold and put stuff away together. It takes, like 10 minutes out of our day every 5 days.

He does most of the kitchen stuff, but I cook and put away dishes sometimes. I do yardwork except mowing. He does the snow removal with the blower, I shovel the stuff that can't be blown. Or we ignore it. I clean the bathroom because I get grossed out first. He cleans up after his pet. I clean up after mine. We shop together. It works for us. When we camp, we pack and unload the truck together. Packing is easy, we do our own packs. I carry the tent, he carries the bear can. Unloading we each grab whatever stuff we can and put it away.

Considering that seems to be the extent of "chores" i think we have it pretty easy and we do stuff together. I think he does more than me. Is it because I don't respect him? No. Not at all. It means that we are both pretty comfortable with doing our own thing or doing it together. There's no need for either of us to stay home as we are childless. Obviously if we make another person, things would change. For one, the house would be a lot cleaner. But right now we do what works for us. Not what works for someone else. If I had to stay home all day cleaning and cooking, we'd both be miserable. He likes to cook and does it well. My cooking skills are meh, his are much better, he was not raised in a home that was afraid of flavor.