Gretchen's passive-agressive accessory post

[wtylcf]

littlepinkhouse.net

I know no one else is really interested in Gretchen anymore, but I kind of have a stockholm-syndrome-like addiction to her.

Gretchen wants some cute accessory, but her wet-blanket husband thinks it's silly and inappropriate for "a mother in her 30s." Nevermind that she's still in her 20s. She doesn't name the accessory, but posts some photos of herself wearing a pink felt flower hair accessory that is definitely silly and girlish, in what I hope is a "screw your controlling ways, Merrit; I'll wear what I like!" flip-off.

I just don't get why she thinks it glorifies herself to post about how her sense of style got trampled upon by her powertripping husband and how she's going to listen to him instead of wearing what she likes. I mean, intellectually I can understand the arguments she's made to why she should please him first and herself second bla bla bla; I just think they're kind of stupid and frustrating. Wear that pink flower if it makes you happy, woman!

[LucySnowe]

I'm still interested in Gretchen! Man, I just realised the other day that I was sort of following her back when she was on Livejournal, before she even got married.

I think the pink flower must be on the 'Merritt approved' list since she is wearing it in public.

I am far from being a fashionista - I own like three pairs of halfway decent shoes - but really, I don't see what the big deal is. There's a trend here in the UK among the younger generation to wear fairly large pendants. I picked one up in a costume jewelry swap and at a charity (thrift) shop I got some tops that are also pretty close to what current fashion likes. I'm not in my 20s anymore, but picking up a few secondhand items neither breaks my bank account nor requires me to have a complete fashion overhaul, while letting me feel that I'm a bit modern.

'That look tells me he’d rather me dress more traditionally than to stand out in a crowd drawing attention for the wrong reasons.' Those two aren't mutually exclusive. I just read _God's Harvard_ and unsurprisingly, at Patrick Henry College (where her brother went, iirc), the prairie muffins stand out like sore thumbs among the politically-mobile students.

'He apologizes for being difficult. But he’s not. He’s really quite simple in his tastes and preferences: classic, traditional, elegant.' Ugh, ugh, ugh. I have a running joke with my husband that if I see a completely awful or outrageous item of clothing, I point it out to him. (Bright yellow dress, strapless, with sequins and a frothy tutu-like tulle skirt.) 99 times out of 100, he says, 'wear it if it makes you happy, my dear.' It's a challenge to find something that he hates so much that he expresses an opinion - and even then, if I wanted to wear it, he wouldn't think it was his business.

Of course I like to wear things that he finds pleasing, just as I cook things that he enjoys eating. I like making him happy, just as he does for me. But this doesn't mean that my entire sense of self has to be subsumed to that. And Gretchen has posted plenty of 'my man is my mirror' justification posts over the years to show that this is something she is clearly struggling with on a long-term basis. This, added to the issues of her body shape having changed during and after multiple pregnancies...and she isn't even thirty yet...I do feel kind of sorry for her.

[snarkbillie]

What could possibly be "inappropriate" for her to wear? I just don't know.

[LucySnowe]

Something that implies to other men that she is attractive?

She's 28 (was just 13 when she met Merritt in September 1996). Okay, fine, don't wear the latest Claire's accessory that's all the rage among the adolescent set, but sheesh.

I guess we can be glad she doesn't go the frumper route.

[silvia]

Oh, Gretchen, Gretchen, Gretchen. I sometimes wonder if she has any idea how creepy-sounding these exchanges between her and her husband are--at least in the minds of women who have any sense of self. And I'm not sure how making her husband sound like a controlling ass fits with the whole "wives should glorify their husbands" thing. (I do like the theory that she posted the photo of herself wearing the girly pink flower as a kind of subconscious flip-off to Merritt.)

Somehow I have a hard time picturing Gretchen's friend and former YLCF contributor Ashleigh posting something like this. Ashleigh may be obnoxious at times, like when she stormed in here attacking Gretchen's former best friend Natalie for her mental health issues, but I just don't think she buys into the showy submission stuff the way Gretchen does. For someone as apparently intelligent as Gretchen, it's unseemly.

[Dinorah]

Did a silly scrunchie deserve its own post? For people who claim to be "modest" they obsess a lot about appearances.

I'm always creeped out by how fundie men seem to control how their wives wear. Ok, I guess it's normal to want to be attractive to your SO, but these women can't even wear a scrunchie without their husband's approval? Most men aren't that interested in women's outfits in such detail.

[emmyfair]

Did a silly scrunchie deserve its own post? For people who claim to be "modest" they obsess a lot about appearances.

No kidding. Fundie women have built this entire culture around what they wear in the name of modesty, while lacking an understanding in any way of what modesty actually is. Screaming "look at me in my shapeless floor length denim frumper! I'm all covered up! Look how I stand out!" isn't very modest, fundies.

It's sad to me that Gretchen has to run every little thing by her husband - I can't imagine letting someone else have that kind of control over my life. While I'm personally not a big fan of pink flowers for hair, if she likes it, she should go for it. Why can't her husband be happy that she's happy?

[ADoyle90815]

Did a silly scrunchie deserve its own post? For people who claim to be "modest" they obsess a lot about appearances.

I'm always creeped out by how fundie men seem to control how their wives wear. Ok, I guess it's normal to want to be attractive to your SO, but these women can't even wear a scrunchie without their husband's approval? Most men aren't that interested in women's outfits in such detail.

I also find it creepy that fundie men are able to control what their wives wear, even down to what hair accessories they may or may not wear. It does seem like fundies don't get what modesty means, and it's not just wearing shapeless frumpers that hide the female body's natural curves.

[silvia]

Gretchen says, "I’m identifying the styles and looks that are 'me,' that my husband likes."

So nothing is "her" unless her husband likes it? That's what she's trying to tell herself, but in truth, she obviously likes things that he doesn't (the cutesy accessories and such). But for some reason, she feels compelled to abandon these preferences as soon as her husband shows the faintest hint of disapproval.

I'm not sure exactly how much blame Merritt should be getting here. He's certainly complicit in that he goes along with telling her what he thinks she should wear, but (and I could be wrong) I kind of get the feeling that Gretchen is driving the whole submission dynamic. She seems to love to roll herself out like a carpet, to get a virtuous buzz from making the "sacrifice" of kowtowing to her husband's wishes. It's sad, and--based on my reading of Christianity, anyway--not something Jesus would have condoned.

[cindyluvs24]

My husband could care less what he wears, much less what I wear. If he needs something new he usually just asks me to order it from LL Bean. I don't think he realizes that there are colors out there besides dark khaki, forest green or navy blue. (Taking him into the mall is like the scene from The Omen where they try to get the kid into the church)

[candycanehead]

:oops: i will be 37 in march, and i still wear hello kitty barrettes/flower barrettes, just as i did when i was younger.

also, i almost guarantee that a lot of these husbands really dont give a damn what their wives wear..there is a huge competition on who is the most submissive or whos husband is the strictest..its sad! but its fun to watch these ladies trying to one up each other in either department..its not as bad as it was several years ago though. now i do think maybe the more well known families truly are like that, but i am talking about the "wanna-bes" .

[LucySnowe]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing Gretchen's friend and former YLCF contributor Ashleigh posting something like this.

Heh, I was glancing through Ashleigh's blog to try and find a photo that I could use as evidence that it's okay to be a young Christian mom and still look trendy. Then I realised I had work to do. :cry:

In general, Ashleigh seems far less fundie than Gretchen - I can't remember a single post about dressing to please one's husband, or It All Centers On The Cross, or we're all far apart now but we'll be together in heaven. It does sound as though her father ditching his marriage, family, and church for a woman he met on the internet made Ashleigh a lot less judgmental, but I haven't followed her blog for long enough to get a sense of what she tends to write about (whereas Gretchen's been going on about this dress-for-your-man for YEARS).

And also, when your husband's deployed for over a year, you probably worry less about whether your daily clothing choices please him and more about whether he's going to be sent home in a wooden box.

[Austin]

My husband could care less what he wears, much less what I wear. If he needs something new he usually just asks me to order it from LL Bean. I don't think he realizes that there are colors out there besides dark khaki, forest green or navy blue. (Taking him into the mall is like the scene from The Omen where they try to get the kid into the church)

Cindyluvs, my husband is the same way. He has not shopped for himself since we married, so almost 30 years. He has no taste whatsoever (good or bad) and tends to be a very standard size, even in shoes. I have pretty much created a grown-up "Garanimals" wardrobe for him in that he can hardly mess it up :)

It probably seems very un-feminist of me, but it's just one of the things I take care of for him so he doesn't have to worry about it. It all works out, as I haven't pumped gas in nearly 30 years :D

[silvia]

In general, Ashleigh seems far less fundie than Gretchen - I can't remember a single post about dressing to please one's husband, or It All Centers On The Cross, or we're all far apart now but we'll be together in heaven. It does sound as though her father ditching his marriage, family, and church for a woman he met on the internet made Ashleigh a lot less judgmental, but I haven't followed her blog for long enough to get a sense of what she tends to write about (whereas Gretchen's been going on about this dress-for-your-man for YEARS).

I agree. I think Ashleigh was pretty fundified in her younger years, based on posts like this: http://heart.ashleighbaker.net/2010/09/the-judgment/. But she seems to have repudiated her judgmental ways to a certain extent, something Gretchen has yet to do. Gretchen sometimes makes oblique comments about how she regrets some of the things she said as a teenager in a public forum, but is rarely specific, and as far as I'm concerned has yet to wrap her head around the misogynistic, God-as-strict-father bill of goods she was sold in her childhood.

And also, when your husband's deployed for over a year, you probably worry less about whether your daily clothing choices please him and more about whether he's going to be sent home in a wooden box.

True that! One of the things that bothers me about Gretchen's constant dithering on her wardrobe choices is how fundamentally self-obsessed this pursuit is. She's as concerned about her looks as any mainstream teenager sucking in her stomach, but papers it over with the insistence, "It's all to make my husband happy." Hello! Who's actually more Christlike: someone like Gretchen who spends endless hours curating a wardrobe her husband likes, or a non-Christian who spends her free time, say, tutoring disadvantaged children so they can graduate from high school?

[emmyfair]

Cindyluvs, my husband is the same way. He has not shopped for himself since we married, so almost 30 years. He has no taste whatsoever (good or bad) and tends to be a very standard size, even in shoes. I have pretty much created a grown-up "Garanimals" wardrobe for him in that he can hardly mess it up :)

It probably seems very un-feminist of me, but it's just one of the things I take care of for him so he doesn't have to worry about it. It all works out, as I haven't pumped gas in nearly 30 years :D

My husband is the same way - I buy his clothes, because I shop for the whole family, and we all like comfortable basics so it's easy.

The "Omen" comment made me laugh, good one! :D

[liltwinstar]

It's funny - my husband is really good about buying/replacing his work clothes (khaki or black pants and a solid color polo), but he's bad about replacing things like socks/underwear. I have to tell him when it's time to do that, and we usually end up in some kind of negotiation where he agrees to buy 3 new pairs of underwear this month and 3 pairs next month (or something like that).

On the flip side, he doesn't usually say anything about what I wear. If I'm happy, he's happy. I do ask his advice about the length of my pants in relation to my shoes (he has a better eye for that) and if something's too big (my body is changing a bit right now and I can't always "see" when things are too big). But other than that, he doesn't usually comment on my clothes unless I ask him to. Well, there was one time where I was dressed for a baby shower in what I thought was a totally trendy outfit... and his comment was "oh, you're going for a 90's grunge look! Awesome!" which had me back in the bedroom, changing into something else :)

[hoipolloi]

Cindyluvs, my husband is the same way. He has not shopped for himself since we married, so almost 30 years. He has no taste whatsoever (good or bad) and tends to be a very standard size, even in shoes. I have pretty much created a grown-up "Garanimals" wardrobe for him in that he can hardly mess it up :)

It probably seems very un-feminist of me, but it's just one of the things I take care of for him so he doesn't have to worry about it. It all works out, as I haven't pumped gas in nearly 30 years :D

Same here in nearly 33 years of marriage. He gets his own running shoes but otherwise doesn't think about it a whole lot.

Re: going shopping for clothes or just about anything. He says he didn't get the shopping gene so there's no use expecting him to put any time into it, let alone enjoy doing it! :lol:

[bea]

Does anyone think that whathisface REALLY CARES what Gretchen wears? THey're out in the sticks, she's chasing three kids and keeping house and working in the family antique store, he's farming. What on Earth could she even buy that would be so offensive to him? Is she wearing a G-string in public?

I think Gretchen's body is suffering from the three kids in four years (or five?) and she's self-conscious about it, hence the focus on clothes and looking her best, etc. Something lots of those fundie girls don't consider - constant pregnancies are HARD on your body.

[silvia]

I think it was three kids in about four years, Bea. I hope she feels like she can take a break from childbearing if she wants/ needs to.

[emmyfair]

Does anyone think that whathisface REALLY CARES what Gretchen wears? THey're out in the sticks, she's chasing three kids and keeping house and working in the family antique store, he's farming. What on Earth could she even buy that would be so offensive to him? Is she wearing a G-string in public?

I think Gretchen's body is suffering from the three kids in four years (or five?) and she's self-conscious about it, hence the focus on clothes and looking her best, etc. Something lots of those fundie girls don't consider - constant pregnancies are HARD on your body.

If that's the case, then I feel really sorry for Gretchen. She's got to work on the inside before she can be at peace with the outside, or begin to feel good enough about herself to make healthy changes. If she's not happy with the way her life is going, it won't matter how many pink flowers she wears in her hair...

[hoipolloi]

I was glad to see that she attended that bloggers' conference recently - didn't her husband put the kibosh on her attending the previous one?

Agree that she'll never feel comfortable about her looks until she's more comfortable about her self. The way she goes on about dressing, behaving & thinking to please her husband sounds so insecure. I also wonder who's driving this - him or her?

[silvia]

I also wonder who's driving this - him or her?

I'm pretty sure it's mostly her, especially because she was writing about the same topics even before she was married. Exhibit A: http://ylcf.org/2010/08/his-beauty-2/

[wtylcf]

Gretchen says, "I’m identifying the styles and looks that are 'me,' that my husband likes."

So nothing is "her" unless her husband likes it? That's what she's trying to tell herself, but in truth, she obviously likes things that he doesn't (the cutesy accessories and such). But for some reason, she feels compelled to abandon these preferences as soon as her husband shows the faintest hint of disapproval.

This is exactly why I get so annoyed at her writings to this effect. She does have personal preferences but she portrays her own aesthetic opinions as less worthy of consideration than Merritt's. I don't think Merritt is necessarily a jerk, either, but the way she writes in this post about the dynamic between them comes off so badly, as if he's belittling her over something really insignificant. I read the article you posted (written by Gretchen many years ago) at the end of this thread, and found it sad how the focus of her "my man is my mirror" writing has shifted since her teen years. She started out telling us about how Merritt focused on the positive aspects of her appearance (looking nice without makeup, looking nice when she doesn't think she does, telling her she looks good in certain colours), which seemed to build up her confidence. Now she's telling us about Merritt dissing her affection for something cute and frivolous which is most likely perfectly fine to wear. And that probably does the opposite for her confidence. The whole style exercise comes off as her attempt to seek his approval and bolster her self-image, which is why it seems kind of sad instead of the fun, lighthearted topic it ought to be.

As many others on this thread have pointed out, it's really not the end of the world if you wear something that makes you happy that is not exactly to your spouse's taste. I for one love bright patterns and colours, while my partner loves minimal and understated clothing, and our differences in taste is nothing more than a running joke between us. We just wouldn't be ourselves if we changed everything about our clothing for the sake of each other's opinions! And who wants their partner to be such a pushover that they won't stand up for what they like?

I think Gretchen still looks totally cute nowadays, and there's no real reason for her to start dressing like a matron.

*edited for clarity

[snarkbillie]

Once, once my husband said something I was wearing "looked silly" and I said "don't care" and the discussion was over. I can't even remember what is was, I think one of those stupid headbands with the faux scarf that ties behind your hair.

[flojo]

I'm pretty sure it's mostly her, especially because she was writing about the same topics even before she was married. Exhibit A: http://ylcf.org/2010/08/his-beauty-2/

Agreed. She seems to want to have a perfect little submissive world.

My s/o does occasionally have an opinion on my clothes, if asked (and, bar compliments, ONLY if asked). He likes me in jeans. I happen to love skirts and dresses (so fundie of me), and tailored pants, so I think he's seen me in jeans about 5 times ever! He's also apprehensive to share opinions about such things, because he HATES the idea of a woman changing how she dresses for him.