You should have died a virgin

[AnnieC 305]

http://johnshore.com/2011/12/20/pastor- ... -a-virgin/

I agree with the reply post, it's the original that makes my head want to explode. :violence-bomb:

[ladypuglover]

http://johnshore.com/2011/12/20/pastor-to-rape-victim-you-should-have-forced-him-to-kill-you-so-at-least-you-could-have-died-a-virgin/

I agree with the reply post, it's the original that makes my head want to explode. :violence-bomb:

Wow, that was a great post.

[Beb]

http://johnshore.com/2011/12/20/pastor-to-rape-victim-you-should-have-forced-him-to-kill-you-so-at-least-you-could-have-died-a-virgin/

I agree with the reply post, it's the original that makes my head want to explode. :violence-bomb:

THIS is excellent, and then she continues strongly reinforcing:

I would like to ask a favor of you, pastor or priest. It will only take a second. Thank you very much for obliging me on this.

If you would, please, for just a moment, think of women.

Now, did anything negative—anything, no matter how vague or fleeting—flash across your consciousness?

If so, then please get up from your desk, or turn to your computer, or do whatever it is that you must, in order to, at this very moment, quit your job. You are no more suited to lead a flock of believers than Stephen Hawking is to be a professional boxer.

[ladypuglover]

THIS is excellent, and then she continues strongly reinforcing:

That part was awesome! :D I plan on keeping this in mind when dealing with my daily fundy encounters.

[Beb]

That part was awesome! :D I plan on keeping this in mind when dealing with my daily fundy encounters.

I will never forget my first experience with true, hardcore fundieism. As a young newly married woman (21), we had just moved. My background was Southern Baptist, but the pastor and a deacon from a local independent Baptist church visited us and persuaded us to attend their church the following Sunday.

Well, we actually joined tht horrible place--big mistake.

In my mind are burned the words and actions of a patriarchal evangelist whose wife was horribly browbeaten. He would chastize her from the pulpit and divulge how he had to discipline her at home because she would get "out of line" at times--"as women are prone to do." I remember feeling very sorry for her; she would hang her head and almost be in tears. Of course, this was the general concensus among that congregation (its men, especially) regarding women.

Good god; how anyone can think that is Biblical or right I will never understand. Didn't take us long to leave that mean and ugly church.

[valsa]

So a woman's hymen is worth more than her life? I don't wish rape on anyone but if I had to, I'd pick whoever the pastor was that said that. I'm curious as to whether he would have gone down fighting (I'm assuming he's a virgin as well because I don't want to live in a world where misogynistic fucks like that can get a woman to sleep with them)

[synchroswimr]

Beb, that part was great! I cannot believe what some of these churches put women through and how women are treated.

[Beb]

Beb, that part was great! I cannot believe what some of these churches put women through and how women are treated.

Isn't it odd, though, that so many women go along with it? It must be some form of brainwashing--almost similar to Stockholm Syndrome.

[clarinetpower]

I used to teach at a school named after St. Maria Goretti. Yep, that was a fun story to explain to the kiddos. :roll: Yikes.

[buddingmedievalist]

I used to teach at a school named after St. Maria Goretti. Yep, that was a fun story to explain to the kiddos. :roll: Yikes.

The thing with Maria Goretti, though, is that she died because he tried to rape her, she resisted (she was 11 and he was 20) and then he pulled out a knife and stabbed her 14 times, which is what killed her. She then forgave him before she died. Yes, it's a tough story for kids, but the point I always took away is that she a) resisted the advances of a much older man which she didn't want in the first place and b) was able to forgive her attacker before she died. The Church doesn't say she's better off dead, but rather praises her for her strength in resisting what she understood to be wrong and then forgiving the man who attacked her

[debrand]

The thing with Maria Goretti, though, is that she died because he tried to rape her, she resisted (she was 11 and he was 20) and then he pulled out a knife and stabbed her 14 times, which is what killed her. She then forgave him before she died. Yes, it's a tough story for kids, but the point I always took away is that she a) resisted the advances of a much older man which she didn't want in the first place and b) was able to forgive her attacker before she died. The Church doesn't say she's better off dead, but rather praises her for her strength in resisting what she understood to be wrong and then forgiving the man who attacked her

Forgiving her attacker is a Christian ideal so I understand being impressed by that action. The church should have no opinion on whether resisting or not resisting is a good idea during an attack.

IDoes anyone remember old fifties cowboy shows that would refer to women suffering a 'fate worse than death'. They meant rape. That shows the attituded that used to exist toward rape victims

This is from the wikipedia entry on Maria Goretti. I admit, I've often doubted certain aspects of her story. First, it was her killer who claimed that he didn't finish the act. Was the man trying to make his crime seem less severe? would the church have cannonized her if she had not died a virgin?

She underwent surgery without anesthesia, but her injuries were beyond the doctors' help. Halfway through the surgery, Maria woke up. She insisted that it stay that way. The pharmacist of the hospital in which she died said to her, "Maria, think of me in Paradise." She looked to the old man: "Well, who knows, which of us is going to be there first?" "You, Maria," he replied. "Then I will gladly think of you," said Maria.[

What idiot would tell an 11 year old girl that she was going to die? Seriously, that was stupid and cruel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Goretti

http://www.mariagoretti.org/likoudisarticle2.htm

This is from a site for Maria Goretti

Maria Goretti gave her life defending her purity rather than to yield to the sinful desires of a young man driven by anger and lust

Everyone on the farm agreed that the child allowed herself to be killed rather than yield to temptation

What temptation? She wasn't tempted to have sex with the man. He was trying to rape her.

[clarinetpower]

Regardless, this was a pre-K through 8 school. Yes, 3 year olds. I'm pretty sure there are other saints out there with a bit more PG message. This was my point.

[debrand]

Regardless, this was a pre-K through 8 school. Yes, 3 year olds. I'm pretty sure there are other saints out there with a bit more PG message. This was my point.

Yes, I understood that was your point. As usual with these threads, the subject branched off a bit.

[Boltingmadonna]

Speaking as a former Catholic who heard the story of Maria Goretti when I was 10 or 11, I think it's just as inappropriate for 8th graders as it is for pre-K. It's inappropriate for everybody. It teaches some horrible lessons. If you're a girl and you're not a virgin, you'd be better off dead. Sex is a sin, whether you were forced to it or not, so even if you were raped, you're still guilty. A girl's "virtue"=untouched genitals. It doesn't matter how great a person you are otherwise, if someone has touched your genitals, you are a dirty, dirty slut. Perhaps worst of all, the official story, in which Maria forgave her attacker and promised he'd go to heaven, promotes the idea that women's purpose is to take care of men and devote their suffering to the betterment of men. Maria's agonizing death is okay because it led to a man's repentance. This just reinforces the notion that women should accept violence from men and "offer it up" with prayer.

Just imagine how awful that would make you feel if you were a child who was being molested, or a girl who'd been raped and survived. That's the point being made in the OP. I remember how sick this story made me feel when I first heard it. It made me wish I'd been born anything but a girl. I felt doomed.

I feel so sorry for Maria Goretti. She sounds like a loving, intelligent child with a lot of integrity. But that's not why she was canonized. Only her death mattered to people, not her life. Her rapist was stalking her for a long time, and no one defended her. She lived in poverty, and no one helped her. When she was brutally stabbed, she got horrendously awful medical care, and no one cared to relieve her suffering--they just made it part of the legend. Because, again, women's suffering is something to be appropriated for the purposes of men.

Short version: I hate this story. Always have. It's a vile, abusive tale to tell young girls about their place and purpose in life. Also, I once attended a church that had a piece of Maria Goretti's finger bone in a little glass case--a "relic." They actually cut up her body to make relics. It's gross.