Torah Family Living Blog

[fundiefun]

wwwdottorahfamilylivingdotcom/blog/

It's a faux jew gold mine on this blog.

[GeoBQn]

Oh yeah, I found their "e-magazine" a couple of weeks ago. My favorite part was when she gave a bunch of "kosher and vegetarian" recipes that all mixed milk and meat.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Yah-some! So, do they celebrate Christanaka or Yahstmas?

Silly me, I see they celebrate Chanukah/Hanukah with their faux Kosher menu. Real Jews you be doing it wrong!

[emmiedahl]

It's Chrismukkah. :dance:

[onlyorganic]

Oh yeah, I found their "e-magazine" a couple of weeks ago. My favorite part was when she gave a bunch of "kosher and vegetarian" recipes that all mixed milk and meat.

I thought it was okay so long as you weren't mixing the meat of one animal with its milk, ie a cream of beef type dish. I could be wrong, I don't really understand kosher.

[ChunkyBarbie]

It's Chrismukkah. :dance:

I'm dreaming of a Kosher Chrismukkah! :lol:

[Beeks]

I thought it was okay so long as you weren't mixing the meat of one animal with its milk, ie a cream of beef type dish. I could be wrong, I don't really understand kosher.

See the "What is Kosher" thread. (ETA: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6171)

I made this up entirely myself, but I see these as the general "levels" of kosher:

1) not at all - will eat a bacon cheeseburger in their own living room.

2) Keeps some level of kosher at home - perhaps avoids bringing pork/shellfish into the house but will eat those things at restaurants

3) Keeps a higher level of kosher at home - no mixing meat/dairy, only kosher meat, probably no separate dishes though and probably will still eat in non-kosher restaurants and at friends houses.

4) Keeps #3 level of kosher at home and outside the home, but will still eat dairy/parve dishes in non-kosher restaurants and at non-kosher friends' houses

5) Keeps a stricter level of kosher at home - separate dishes for milk and meat and parve, only buys things with a kosher symbol (and are probably picky about WHICH symbol it is, too). Will not eat in non-kosher restaurants or at non-kosher friends' houses, even if it's just vegetarian.

6) Extremely strict: everything in #5 plus checks all vegetables and fruits for non-kosher insects, only lets a Jew touch/pour their wine, may even have separate sinks, microwaves, fridges, etc for meat and dairy.

[Witsec7]

I used to work for a #6, their exceptions were Chinese restaurants when dining out.

[chiccy]

In my experience, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews keep level ~6 according to your breakdown (i.e., most will have separate sinks/fridges for milchig and fleishig, if not separate kitchens.) Among the Orthodox, I find that the gradations are not levels 1-6, but rather things like whether you check for bugs with a light, which Kashrus symbols/standards you accept, and whether you insist on glatt. So basically different versions of level 6.

You may find Conservative (and occasionally Reform) Jews at levels 1-5, but I know that for Orthodox Jews, kosher is kosher. (And it applies to all meals outside the home, too.)

[ilovetchotchkes]

In my experience, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews keep level ~6 according to your breakdown (i.e., most will have separate sinks/fridges for milchig and fleishig, if not separate kitchens.) Among the Orthodox, I find that the gradations are not levels 1-6, but rather things like whether you check for bugs with a light, which Kashrus symbols/standards you accept, and whether you insist on glatt. So basically different versions of level 6.

You may find Conservative (and occasionally Reform) Jews at levels 1-5, but I know that for Orthodox Jews, kosher is kosher. (And it applies to all meals outside the home, too.)

I'm between a 3 and a 4 (probably closest to like a 3.25) and I'm Reform. :D I did at one point have different sets of dishes, but last year after Pesach, I suffered a fit of misanthrope and said "screw it" and went down to one.

[Beeks]

In my experience, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews keep level ~6 according to your breakdown (i.e., most will have separate sinks/fridges for milchig and fleishig, if not separate kitchens.) Among the Orthodox, I find that the gradations are not levels 1-6, but rather things like whether you check for bugs with a light, which Kashrus symbols/standards you accept, and whether you insist on glatt. So basically different versions of level 6.

You may find Conservative (and occasionally Reform) Jews at levels 1-5, but I know that for Orthodox Jews, kosher is kosher. (And it applies to all meals outside the home, too.)

I meant the list for all Jews, not just orthodox. I agree with you that you'd never find orthodox at #1, obviously, but I disagree that all orthodox are at a 6. My brother is modern ortho, lives in Israel, and is more at a 4-5. I also knew lots of modern ortho living in LA who were around that level, definitely not a 6. I don't know any ultra orthodox people well though so I'm assuming they're all 6+. :)

[RR88]

See the "What is Kosher" thread. (ETA: http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6171)

I made this up entirely myself, but I see these as the general "levels" of kosher:

1) not at all - will eat a bacon cheeseburger in their own living room.

2) Keeps some level of kosher at home - perhaps avoids bringing pork/shellfish into the house but will eat those things at restaurants

3) Keeps a higher level of kosher at home - no mixing meat/dairy, only kosher meat, probably no separate dishes though and probably will still eat in non-kosher restaurants and at friends houses.

4) Keeps #3 level of kosher at home and outside the home, but will still eat dairy/parve dishes in non-kosher restaurants and at non-kosher friends' houses

5) Keeps a stricter level of kosher at home - separate dishes for milk and meat and parve, only buys things with a kosher symbol (and are probably picky about WHICH symbol it is, too). Will not eat in non-kosher restaurants or at non-kosher friends' houses, even if it's just vegetarian.

6) Extremely strict: everything in #5 plus checks all vegetables and fruits for non-kosher insects, only lets a Jew touch/pour their wine, may even have separate sinks, microwaves, fridges, etc for meat and dairy.

I like your list of "levels"! Every Orthodox Jew I know follows 4, 5, or 6...mostly 5 and 6, though. And I know many, many people who I thought were stricter-than-strict and then found out eat dairy/pareve meals at non-kosher restaurants.

[RR88]

Oh, and I love the fact that the site's "About" page has a photo of the mom reading to her daughter from a Bible with a picture of Jesus on the cover.

[evenstar210]

My best guess, after looking at the recipes, is that the "faux-Jews" are keeping the laws of the Written Torah without the Oral Torah. The prohibition against eating chicken with milk was implemented later in the Oral Torah (Talmud, not sure of the source at the moment).

"Real" Orthodox Jews believe that the Oral Torah was transmitted orally to Moses at Mt. Sinai along with the written Torah, and that both are equally binding. It was passed along through the generations orally, until it was codified in the Mishna/Talmud because it was in danger of being lost. Many, many laws that Orthodox Jews keep have their origin in the oral Torah. There is a separate sect that keeps the written Torah literally (Karaites). They are not considered to be Jews by other Jews.

Example: Karaites will sit in the dark and eat cold food on Shabbat because of the prohibition against lighting a flame. Orthodox Jews know that halacha permits the food to be warmed beforehand, and lights to be put on timers, etc.

Essentially, more proof that these people are not following "Torah" but picking and choosing what to follow.

[Beeks]

My best guess, after looking at the recipes, is that the "faux-Jews" are keeping the laws of the Written Torah without the Oral Torah. The prohibition against eating chicken with milk was implemented later in the Oral Torah (Talmud, not sure of the source at the moment).

"Real" Orthodox Jews believe that the Oral Torah was transmitted orally to Moses at Mt. Sinai along with the written Torah, and that both are equally binding. It was passed along through the generations orally, until it was codified in the Mishna/Talmud because it was in danger of being lost. Many, many laws that Orthodox Jews keep have their origin in the oral Torah. There is a separate sect that keeps the written Torah literally (Karaites). They are not considered to be Jews by other Jews.

Example: Karaites will sit in the dark and eat cold food on Shabbat because of the prohibition against lighting a flame. Orthodox Jews know that halacha permits the food to be warmed beforehand, and lights to be put on timers, etc.

Essentially, more proof that these people are not following "Torah" but picking and choosing what to follow.

For some reason their name is escaping me, but isn't this what that crazy-moved-to-costa-rica family does as well? I actually don't mind it....they are following the first 5 books of the Bible and that's it. They don't claim to be Jewish, just "Torah-observant" - so why follow what a bunch of rabbis say?

[dairyfreelife]

For some reason their name is escaping me, but isn't this what that crazy-moved-to-costa-rica family does as well? I actually don't mind it....they are following the first 5 books of the Bible and that's it. They don't claim to be Jewish, just "Torah-observant" - so why follow what a bunch of rabbis say?

The Dixons?

[RR88]

Many, many laws that Orthodox Jews keep have their origin in the oral Torah. There is a separate sect that keeps the written Torah literally (Karaites). They are not considered to be Jews by other Jews.

Yes. I have a hard time sometimes explaining to people why Orthodox Jews follow so many rules that aren't in the Five Books. And I know a Karaite or two!

[Beeks]

The Dixons?

Yes, thank you! That was bugging me. :)

[pomology]

See the "What is Kosher" thread. (ETA: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6171)

I made this up entirely myself, but I see these as the general "levels" of kosher:

1) not at all - will eat a bacon cheeseburger in their own living room.

2) Keeps some level of kosher at home - perhaps avoids bringing pork/shellfish into the house but will eat those things at restaurants

3) Keeps a higher level of kosher at home - no mixing meat/dairy, only kosher meat, probably no separate dishes though and probably will still eat in non-kosher restaurants and at friends houses.

4) Keeps #3 level of kosher at home and outside the home, but will still eat dairy/parve dishes in non-kosher restaurants and at non-kosher friends' houses

5) Keeps a stricter level of kosher at home - separate dishes for milk and meat and parve, only buys things with a kosher symbol (and are probably picky about WHICH symbol it is, too). Will not eat in non-kosher restaurants or at non-kosher friends' houses, even if it's just vegetarian.

6) Extremely strict: everything in #5 plus checks all vegetables and fruits for non-kosher insects, only lets a Jew touch/pour their wine, may even have separate sinks, microwaves, fridges, etc for meat and dairy.

Yeah, Beeks, I also like your scale. I'd say my family is a 4.25 we'll eat dairy/parve in non-kosher restaurants and at non-kosher restaurants (and also buy non-meat items without hechshers and aren't picky about hechshers), but we keeps separate dishes.

Although people will have weird variations in their observance. My brother who is kind of trending towards Orthodox ate meat out (at a non-kosher restaurant), but a week later freaked out when we were eating vegetarian pizza (from a non-kosher place) in his apartment. He was fine with eating it, but he made us eat it out on the veranda on paper plates).

[ilovetchotchkes]

Yeah, Beeks, I also like your scale. I'd say my family is a 4.25 we'll eat dairy/parve in non-kosher restaurants and at non-kosher restaurants (and also buy non-meat items without hechshers and aren't picky about hechshers), but we keeps separate dishes.

Although people will have weird variations in their observance. My brother who is kind of trending towards Orthodox ate meat out (at a non-kosher restaurant), but a week later freaked out when we were eating vegetarian pizza (from a non-kosher place) in his apartment. He was fine with eating it, but he made us eat it out on the veranda on paper plates).

I'm kind of the same way. My FIL took it upon himself to bring a beef and cheese burrito into my kitchen and I told him to take it outside and eat it. He did this WITHOUT ASKING though. And my mother in law has asked REPEATEDLY for rundowns of basic Kosher laws so that they don't "accidentally" violate them in my house. However, that hasn't stopped her from feeding my toddler SHRIMP. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[dairyfreelife]

Yes, thank you! That was bugging me. :)

No problem. :)

[emmiedahl]

I don't fit in the scale at all. I generally don't eat forbidden things or forbidden combinations either in or outside the home, but I am not too picky about hechshers or dinnerware (my kitchen is the size of a postage stamp and we could not possibly fit another set of dishes anyway). I will let my kids try non-kosher foods at other people's homes or in restaurants, also. I just don't buy it or eat it myself. This seems like a common situation in the other mixed religion households I know.

Not mixing meat and dairy was a new thing for me because my family is full of not-very-observant Mizrachi Jews, and the Mizrachim interpret a few passages differently. I was raised that you shouldn't cook red meat and milk together, but that eating them separately at the same meal or even in the same mouthful was okay. We also never ate the last few bites of any dish; we would put them on a separate plate and then throw them away later, but they were never to be eaten. My mother explained why this was at some point, it was a weird superstition.

It's cool that there is so much diversity within the Jewish religion as far as what we find mandatory or even meaningful.

[FaustianSlip]

I'm also somewhere between a three and a four- similar to Emmiedahl. No forbidden meats, period, either at home or out at restaurants. I try to avoid meat/dairy combinations, and I generally do quite well at home (mostly because the stuff I cook at home is overwhelmingly vegetarian), but I always end up screwing up when I go out to eat. Not at Chinese restaurants, which pretty much never use dairy products in cooking, but at western places where I'll be halfway through a chicken salad and eat some bread and butter, then realize what I just did. Meh. I'm trying to eat more vegetarian stuff out to just avoid the issue entirely, but it's been a slow process.

I don't look for hechshers, because that would be basically impossible here in China, except at a (very) few stores that sell imported food. For Passover, though, I went full-on kosher last year- put down tinfoil in the kitchen, tossed all the chametz, the whole nine yards. It was exhausting, but worthwhile, I think. I'm likely going to be in the U.K. for Pesach this coming year, so I suspect I'll be eating a lot of salads and chips, but that's not so horrendous. I know there are a couple of restaurants in Golders Green that go kosher for Pesach, too, so I could always hit those.

[chiccy]

For Passover, though, I went full-on kosher last year- put down tinfoil in the kitchen, tossed all the chametz, the whole nine yards. It was exhausting, but worthwhile, I think.

Ah, but did you eat kitniyos or gebrochts? (I'm just kidding; I don't give up anything for Passover.)

[FaustianSlip]

Gebrochts, yes (I'm neither Chabad nor crazy), kitniyos, no. I cheated when I lived in Japan and ate rice, because the alternative was starvation, pretty much, but if I'm in the UK for Pesach this year, I should be able to get all the matzo I could possibly want, not that that's a lot (I'm actually planning to ship a bunch of kosher l'Pesach stuff back to China in advance of next year, sick as that is).