Fundie christians pretending to be Jews

[fakepigtails73]

Ok, so I looked at the blog where the "Bethroted" documentary trailer that was posted here on FJ originated from.

 

I have many, many questions...

 

 

They don't seem like the wacko "Jews for Jesus" that harass pedestrians all over North America's downtowns, they believe that Jesus (called "Yeshua") is the Messiah but they do the Sabbath on saturdays, women wear head-coverings all the time, men wear beards, they have large families (obviously) although the one that does the blog doesn't shy away from adopting as they have 2 little black daughters among the other "bred" kids.

 

They have the "stepping on glass in a cloth" yelling Mazel Tov during their wedding ceremonies, and they seem to live life like Mennonites or Brethrens.

 

Unlike other fundies they love to dance...

 

So, who are they, and what to they call their denomination?

 

The woman writing the blog seems to come from a fairly secular background (she was a chef in a French bistro in San Francisco before marrying, so I guess that she converted or something). I'll put the link to that blog later tonight.

 

They don't date nor court, they do the "bethrotal".

 

I don't get it. Either you're a Jew, or if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah then you're a Christian. You can't have the best of both worlds...

 

 

ETA the link

 

homeshalom.blogspot.com/2011/12/betrothed-video-give-away.html

[finleeport]

I made a religious group based on Fake Jews for my stories, they're called the Minunei-they're anti-fun, fanatical, self-abnegating, insidious, and they participate in their New Year's blood libels (where they believe that kids/young woman's blood possesses powers of rejuvenation). and one of their reasons for their yearly blood libels are from Hebrews 2:14;

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

[celestial]

So, who are they, and what to they call their denomination?

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

[fakepigtails73]

Interesting, thanks!

Are they allowed to Israel as the "right-of-return"? I know that "Jews For Jesus" aren't. That wiki article is not too clear on that.

[Kitty]

You know, Messianic "Jews" have quite a few similiarities to hardcore Baptists.

[celestial]

No, they aren't accepted by Israel as Jews. (Probably because they aren't Jews!) Here's a source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Ret ... ic_Judaism

(I do read things other than wikipedia, I promise. ;) It just has succinct information on this.)

[Happy_Anabaptist]

It's a weird movement. I've met some lately who call Jesus Yeshua and follow the OT feasts and all, but don't call themselves Messianic. Most are homechurchers though. And there's one lady I know who attends a Menno church on Sundays and a Messianic synagogue on Sabbaths. Last week she was posting articles on her Facebook page denouncing Sunday worship and the symbol of the cross as pagan. I read it, thinking, isn't she attacking her own church? :|

[TinfoilHatMandatory]

Jews For Jesus

(words & music by Sean Altman & Rob Tannenbaum)

I've never been the most observant jew

After my bar mitzvah I was through

I've disobeyed the code of Abraham

I've eaten several shiksas and some ham

But as bad as I have been

I still would never dream

Of foresaking my forefathers

And playing for the other team

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

When I see you my mind just freezes

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

Stink as bad as rotten cheeses

And just to show you who's the boss

I'd really like to nail you to the cross

Jews for Jesus

Your shirt of blue emblazoned with a star

Filthy turncoat - that is what you are

You offer me a pamphlet - I decline

I'd rather jam a broom up your behind

Like mayonnaise on rye

You make your bubbe cry

Go get your foreskin reattached

It's time for you to die

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

I wanna wanna chop you into pieces

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

I hope you get lots of diseases

Traded in Purim for the Pentecost

I'd really like to nail you to the cross

Jews for Jesus

"Jew for Jesus" - the phrase is pure deceit

It's like being a vegetarian for meat

I'd gladly baptize you in my toilet

For you, just like the bowl, are full of shit

Let's take him to the lake outside of town

You'd better walk on water or you'll drown

You're born again - that's nice

Stay dead - that's my advice

If Jesus resurrects you, great!

I get to kill you twice

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

On Christmas day do ya eat Chineses

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

I'd wanna wanna toss you from trapezes

Jews for Jesus, Jews for Jesus

These two things are antitheseses

Time for you to learn about the Holocaust

While I nail you to the cross

Jews for Jesus

When is there going to be a song about messianic jews?

[celestial]

It's a weird movement. I've met some lately who call Jesus Yeshua and follow the OT feasts and all, but don't call themselves Messianic. Most are homechurchers though. And there's one lady I know who attends a Menno church on Sundays and a Messianic synagogue on Sabbaths. Last week she was posting articles on her Facebook page denouncing Sunday worship and the symbol of the cross as pagan. I read it, thinking, isn't she attacking her own church? :|

It's all just an attempt to be fundier-than-thou.

[JesusFightClub]

Messianics are practicing a form of entryism? I was curious about this on the Lina thread, if she converted Orthodox.

Would it be likely for such a person to try and join in with normal Jews and convert them to the ways of Yeshua?

(Apologies if this makes no sense, I am still a bit wasted from yesterday and my internal Left to Religion translator isn't working. I can't remember what entryism would be in religionspeak.)

[celestial]

By "entryism," you mean something like "infiltrating"? I was wondering the same thing, if the fundie Messianic "Jews" actively try to join up with and convert real Jews to "the ways of Yeshua." Does it help some of them with their proselytizing?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'll ask - I know something about Judaism (the standard original kind) but dimly remember a friend from college long ago, who had left behind a very fundie explicitly Christian family that she said were (an offshoot of?) Seventh Day Adventist, as I recall, and she was saying their "thing" was they held that the holy day was on Saturday (as regular Jews do, though I'm not sure if the Seventh Day Adventists hold that days start at sundown or not) and they too held some form of kosher, because it was in the Old Testament and whatnot.

Am I merely misremembering (or hallucinating on these drugs I'm on for pain issues?) or are Seventh Day Adventists another group who holds the Sabbath to be Saturday and does some "original Old Testament" things?

As for "Yeshua" and converting others to believe in him as the Messiah it seems to me their best or only chance would be someone born Jewish by the normal rules converting to Messianism and then trying to sway people, but I dunno. Even then, I can't imagine many people considering that to be anything other than waayyyyyyy OTD.

[celestial]

I've known a couple Adventists, and from what I gather, they do celebrate Saturday as their sabbath (but I don't think it starts at sundown the night before) and keep kosher too. And I think they're encouraged to be vegetarian as well. But though they share some characteristics with the Messianics, they don't think of themselves as Jewish.

[Happy_Anabaptist]

Someone placed an order at my deli for trays for an Adventist funeral, and they specifically asked for cheese and no meat, because they didn't do pork.

[browncoatslytherin]

Someone placed an order at my deli for trays for an Adventist funeral, and they specifically asked for cheese and no meat, because they didn't do pork.

some people just don't do pork, though, for religious or non-religious reasons alike.

[ilovetchotchkes]

some people just don't do pork, though, for religious or non-religious reasons alike.

My husband works for the Adventist hospital system and he says a LOT of them are vegetarians as well.

(and considering how they ALWAYS have a really GOOD veg. option in the cafeteria, I think what he says has gotta be true!)

[bionicmlle]

I grew up SDA.

Sabbath, just as for jews, starts on Friday at sundown and ends Saturday at sundown. In fact, in SDA communities many businesses close around 2-3 pm in order to get ready for Sabbath ("guard the edges of the Sabbath" stuff). While there aren't rules to stay "kosher" they do follow OT laws regarding "clean" and "unclean" meat. I didn't have bacon until my teens and DH was completely vegetarian but not vegan -- eggs, butter, cheese are all okay. Also some other weird dietary things like no mustard, pepper, caffeine or alcohol.

[JesusFightClub]

By "entryism," you mean something like "infiltrating"? I was wondering the same thing, if the fundie Messianic "Jews" actively try to join up with and convert real Jews to "the ways of Yeshua." Does it help some of them with their proselytizing?

Yes, kind of like infiltrating, except I think an infiltrator would be opposed to a group and all it stood for whereas people practicing entryism would think "This is a useful group, with some potential or good [we would say militants, again my translator is broken] some good and useful people in it. If my group can get enough people to join, we can steer the rest in the right direction."

That seems sort of like Lina. She basically thinks Jews are Doing It Right, but they need to be pointed Yeshua-wards. I wonder if she will hide then convert Orthodox then practice her form of entryism.

[PennySycamore]

Jesus Fight Club,

That's exactly what some fundies and evangelicals do: they "convert" and then after a few years, they "find" Jesus/Yeshua and try to convert the members of their synagogue. This happens enough that conversion to has become very difficult. We had a lengthy discussion here on FJ about this a month or so ago.

I'll post a couple of links to a blog by a young woman who is honestly pursuing Orthodox conversion where she addresses the problem of converts believing that Jesus is the messiah. The first post is quite short and the second addresses the Lina thing directly.

http://crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.com/ ... agree.html

http://crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.com/ ... -life.html