Bill Gothard newsletter. Includes his email/phone number.

[MerryHappy]

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/media/Le ... othard.pdf

 

Latest from Bill Gothard and ATI.

 

If you can stand to read it, please notice how he attempts to shoot down grace (perhaps due to the creation of the website Recovering Grace?) and then half assed asked those who are offended with him to contact him.

[nuri]

I am grateful that despite living in the same area code for most of my formative years, I had never heard of ATI until FreeJinger.

[Angri-la]

I am grateful that despite living in the same area code for most of my formative years, I had never heard of ATI until FreeJinger.

Me too, although, it was all 312 area code when I was in my formative years. It shocks me that I was ignorant of their shenanigans, because Gothard is right up my parents' alley. To Gothard, Catholics are evil-- otherwise, I would have been in ATI hell.

[nuri]

Me too, although, it was all 312 area code when I was in my formative years. It shocks me that I was ignorant of their shenanigans, because Gothard is right up my parents' alley. To Gothard, Catholics are evil-- otherwise, I would have been in ATI hell.

I was 708 until it switched, but he's still not all that far in Illinois Suburb terms. I think the Catholicism saved me too...and it makes me wonder a good bit about all the megachurches in the area. A lot of the people I know who came out of them could very well be fundie-lite, including a good friend of mine.

[FuManchu]

Apparently they now have an opportunity to restructure the whole of Peru. Good luck with that, Bill!

[Sunnichick31]

Anyone else think it'd be fun to prank call him???

[FJismyheadship]

Anyone else think it'd be fun to prank call him???

I tried that. Seriously, I went to prankdial.com to do it... was gonna record it and post it and everything. Unfortunately, its an automated thing for IBLF (or whatever the name of that place is) and it didnt work. So.... yeah unless you know his extension or his real number, it wont work :( Oh, and you have to use a real phone, not a website.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Anyone else think it'd be fun to prank call him???

Heeheehee... I'd pretend to be a barely legal male prostitute who is responding to his ad on Craigslist.

[browncoatslytherin]

i might have signed him up for some gay porn...

[browncoatslytherin]

I tried that. Seriously, I went to prankdial.com to do it... was gonna record it and post it and everything. Unfortunately, its an automated thing for IBLF (or whatever the name of that place is) and it didnt work. So.... yeah unless you know his extension or his real number, it wont work :( Oh, and you have to use a real phone, not a website.

i called the number just to see if i had read it right [the pdf quality wasn't very good on my computer for some reason] and it rang a couple of times and a male answered. damnit i should have said something but i was expecting no one to answer!

[FJismyheadship]

Well maybe nobody answered when I did it because they were "out to lunch" but "enter your parties extension if you know it!" I'll try again tomorrow.

And the gay porn... win.

[fakepigtails73]

Anyone else think it'd be fun to prank call him???

hehe, I would've if *69 or call display didn't exist. I miss the early 80's for prank calls, lol! :lol:

[browncoatslytherin]

interesting...one of the sites i was going to sign bill up for said that i couldn't sign him up because his e-mail was already linked to an account... :o mayhaps bill is doing a little perusing of his own?

[FJismyheadship]

interesting...one of the sites i was going to sign bill up for said that i couldn't sign him up because his e-mail was already linked to an account... :o mayhaps bill is doing a little perusing of his own?

WOW!!!!!! I am laughing so hard here hahaha

[doggie]

sign him up to every MLM program out there.

[pomology]

interesting...one of the sites i was going to sign bill up for said that i couldn't sign him up because his e-mail was already linked to an account... :o mayhaps bill is doing a little perusing of his own?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is too amazing.

[bionicmlle]

Or send some LDS and Jehovah's Witness missionaries to his address, requesting a BOM or tracts....

[fundifugee]

i might have signed him up for some gay porn...

I've done this before! Not to Bill. My gay best friend and I had the misfortune to spend a weekend with a friend of a friend who turned out to be a dumb homophobe. When we got home, we stopped by the queer-friendly bookstore, took a lot of the 'free first issue' cards out of the best porn magazines, and signed him up. There are some really fantastic offers out there. Our friend said he was nearly in tears by the time Waxed Butts and Surly Officer arrived in his mailbox.

It was an even more excellent prank than mailing dog poo to the junk-mailing televangelists in their postage-paid return envelopes.

[browncoatslytherin]

I've done this before! Not to Bill. My gay best friend and I had the misfortune to spend a weekend with a friend of a friend who turned out to be a dumb homophobe. When we got home, we stopped by the queer-friendly bookstore, took a lot of the 'free first issue' cards out of the best porn magazines, and signed him up. There are some really fantastic offers out there. Our friend said he was nearly in tears by the time Waxed Butts and Surly Officer arrived in his mailbox.

It was an even more excellent prank than mailing dog poo to the junk-mailing televangelists in their postage-paid return envelopes.

damn, i wish there was a bookstore nearby!! bill would DIE

[SamuraiKatz]

I think it is creep that old Bill "interviews" every attendee to Journey of the Heart. Some how that just seems...like a violation.

Also I call hypocrisy on the "soul winning". I share the county with ATI's most holy family and their crew of home church followers. I've not seen much soul winning activity by these folks.

[browncoatslytherin]

bill is going to have quite the surprise tomorrow when he checks his e-mail...let's hope he does it alone and noone sees...or maybe not! lol

[MerryHappy]

bill is going to have quite the surprise tomorrow when he checks his e-mail...let's hope he does it alone and noone sees...or maybe not! lol

I hope he has a crowd. Heh heh heh

Mr. Gothard is big into evangelism and gift giving so I might or might not have sent him the gift of Mormon missionaries for Christmas this year.

[fakepigtails73]

What's their thing with Peru? A model ATI nation?

WTF?

Free Peru!

[Brainsample]

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/media/Letter-from-Bill-Gothard.pdf

Latest from Bill Gothard and ATI.

If you can stand to read it, please notice how he attempts to shoot down grace (perhaps due to the creation of the website Recovering Grace?) and then half assed asked those who are offended with him to contact him.

This isn't new -- this is actually a reiteration of what he teaches in his seminar. Grace is unmerited favor --period, and the Apostle Paul's use of it as a religious term was unique, save for one single reference in Aeschylus' Promethius Bound (which I actually studied in college). It was not a religious word before at all and just meant "to look favorably upon."

Gothard twists the meaning of grace and teaches that after initial salvation, you have to bank up what I guess you could call "grace points" by doing good works, primarily through submission. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble, so by enduring humiliation and suffering, you gain mystical power which accumulates and then gives you power to do things or God's blessing and extra help to do things. If you are not humble and don't work on banking up those points by earning them through acts of humility, you have no power for living and God will oppose you. (It's almost like the meritorious works doctrine followed by some Roman Catholics which is why Protestants will say that Gothard is actually "Romanist,")

He effectively takes grace -- unmerited favor -- and turns it into a benefit that is merited through good works. Hence, after you pray the initial prayer of repentance, grace is on a merited basis. And that ain't grace, folks, but it made Gothard novel and he seems like he has hidden knowledge that other people do not. That's all part of his Higher Life/Kewsick Movement theology which is essentially a modern version of gnosticism. Subtle but very messed up.

Thanks a bunch, Bill.

[Brainsample]

I don't know how many hear realize it, but Midwest Christian Outreach met with Gothard several years ago to confront him and to work with him regarding this error over his teachings on Grace. He showed up for the first meeting or two (they were supposed to get together with him regularly to work things out), and he just stopped showing any interest.

If he wants to own up to what he's taught, he should get back in touch with Don Veinot at MCO to start working on this doctrinal error.

So, I guess he's sticking to his proud guns. He's going to stand his ground on his doctrine of grace.

I do wonder what prompted the letter. I corresponded with Recovering Grace this past week, and others received the letter before they did. When I heard from them, they had not yet received it. It may have not been sent to them or the contributors there. If it was prompted by Recovering Grace, Gothard doesn't seem to be trying to engage them and quell their dissidence.