Do Fundies Circumcize?

[luv2laugh]

Do Fundies Circumcize their sons? I know in Galations 5 it says people shouldn't... Someone told me they don't but I thought many still do? I'm so confused. Do you think the Duggars or Bates circumsize? Does anyone know?

[emmiedahl]

I don't think Zsuzsu does.

[Witsec7]

My Polish xtian relatives didn't (RCC) which leads me to think that Theboyinthebathroom is uncut.

[raineymott]

My family did...

[tabitha2]

LIAS does.She and her husband made it an excuse to rent a sports car for a 2 day trip to a Rabbi.

[Rachel333]

My fundie-lite family did. They did it on the eighth day, but at a doctor's office.

[maybeizfundie]

That's another "Depends" question. :D

Galations five doesn't say it is wrong to circumcise, flat out. It says it is spiritually valueless (as is uncircumcision, in the same verse). The idea being that there were some Christians then who were making circumcision and other "law" issues a matter of standing with God/salvation.

For those who accord circumcision only spiritual meaning, then it would end up-being a no-no, because Paul says clearly that it doesn't for Christians. But some may still circ. for percieved health reasons, or for cultural reasons, not spiritual, and consider it not wrong because although it has no value in terms of salvation, God commanded his own beloved people to cirumcize, so it cannot be an "evil".

[Soldier of the One]

I don't see why they should. Circumcision is very much indicative of the covenant between God and Abraham (and Isaac/Ishmael if you want to stretch it) and is very much a Jewish identity marker. Wouldn't supersessionist theology render circumcision irrelevant to Christians?

If they do, I wonder what other aspects of 'ceremonial' Biblical law they keep. I still find the division between 'ceremonial' and 'legislative' (or whatever the term is) Biblical law artificial, but that's just old Jewish me, I guess.

Do any of them keep a semblance of kosher? Why not stop there and wear fringes on the corners of one's garments, not light fire on the Sabbath etc?

I'm confused. :rolleyes:

[Kitty]

American fundies most definitely circumcize. Why not? That's just "the way it's done," and if you don't circumcize you're a hippie who thinks way too much about your son's penis. Oooookay.

When have they ever paid attention to the Bible other than the stories (which were of course sanitized for teh childrenz), verses about how we've "fallen short of the glory of god" (Romans 3:23. Thank you, AWANA!) and silly rules that they think make them closer to god, like women not wearing pants, gays not being gay, and wives being doormats to their husbands?

[Brainsample]

I've heard that the VF set hires a Rabbi to do it and they effectively have a bris.

[maybeizfundie]

It is spiritually irrelevant to Christians, at least according to that verse. I'm not saying there aren't Christians who circumcise in direct opposition to that verse, as some kind of spiritual, "covenental" thing. I think Christians doing the whole bris thing is skating on thin ice, though I have heard some people prefer it for reasons of comfort for the baby over standard hospital circ. Actually not surprised to hear that VF folks do that, because they are in the Reformed faith and big on "covenants" of all kinds.

But other people and cultures besides Jews circumcise, for reasons that don't have anything to do with Jewish theology. And within those cultures are Christians who may circumcise. For American Christians it may be purely cultural or normative to do, or they may believe that it is the long-term more safe/healthy option. Galatians 5 doesn't ban circumcision, so as long as someone is not doing it specifically for "spiritual value", they're not out of line with regards to that verse.

[Soldier of the One]

I've heard that the VF set hires a Rabbi to do it and they effectively have a bris.

Really?

First of all: what rabbi (or mohel, rather) would go along with that? Is it just a business transaction for them?

Second of all: how do they justify that theologically?

Brainsample: would you say that fundamentalist supersessionist theology borders on the anti-semitic? I remember reading something here about Dough Philips' disparaging remarks on 'modern Judaism'.

[Soldier of the One]

But other people and cultures besides Jews circumcise, for reasons that don't have anything to do with Jewish theology. And within those cultures are Christians who may circumcise. For American Christians it may be purely cultural or normative to do, or they may believe that it is the long-term more safe/healthy option. Galatians 5 doesn't ban circumcision, so as long as someone is not doing it specifically for "spiritual value", they're not out of line with regards to that verse.

Oh, I am totally fine with that. It's up to people themselves to decide who does what in the name of X, Y or Z.

What bothers me, though, is if (or when) circumcision is seen as a replacement (or nullification of) the ancient Jewish covenant in replacement of the 'New Israel' under Christ.

[Soldevi]

Christians in Finland don't circumcise and in general it is done purely for health reasons. Small Jewish and Muslim community deals it guided by law and time to time there are headlines in news papers about abuse allegations when immigrants perform circumcision at home in unhygienic way and without necessary pain relief. Because of these, public opinion has grown stronger that circumcision is unnecessary procedure if there isn't a health problem.

It amazes me why it is so big deal in American culture. And funny thing when some always say that they don't want their kids to look different and therefore they circumcise. My godson had tight foreskin and her mother was so worried how he will take looking different down there when he starts to notice difference between him and the other boys :D

[Brainsample]

Really?

First of all: what rabbi (or mohel, rather) would go along with that? Is it just a business transaction for them?

Second of all: how do they justify that theologically?

Brainsample: would you say that fundamentalist supersessionist theology borders on the anti-semitic? I remember reading something here about Dough Philips' disparaging remarks on 'modern Judaism'.

I think that Doug Phillips is only Jewish when it's convenient and politically expedient for him to be so. He fancies himself as somewhat special at times for his Jewish ancestry through his father. And I would not say that the ultra-replacement theology followed by the group, a vital part of their "multigenerational faithfulness" concept is any more anti-semitic as it is against anyone else who is deemed to be non-elect. If one does not profess faith in Christ and they are not elect, they are doomed, and most people in Doug's camp behave as though Christians don't even have a duty to be good to them. Doug is just as elitist when it comes to what he considers lesser Christians, those like me, for example. He's an equal opportunity offender. He has accused other people (Joe Taylor) of being anti-semetic and discriminatory against him to justify robbing Joe blind. http://freejinger.yuku.com/sreply/13078 ... sZURPJbWuI and raisingthetruth.com

For the mohel, it would have to be a business transaction. They can pocket a bit of money for the practice.

It is not a sin to get circumcised, so there is no theological justification involved. Like so much of patriarchy, it's just personal preference and a matter of culture. Paul told Timothy to be circumcise to appease the Jews to whom he was meant to minister to make him fully qualified, but the practice was not required. So it would be an optional thing, neither a violation nor a compliance with any Scriptural requirement. On the other hand, it is not Christian and would be consistent with the false teachings of the Judaizers to require that boys be circumcised.

[Soldier of the One]

Thanks for explaining that, Brainsample.

[Brainsample]

My pleasure. Glad to contribute without killing the thread!

[formergothardite]

Gothard is big on circumcision, so the Bates and Duggars probably do.

http://billgothard.com/news/circumcision

[lilwriter85]

I don't think Zsuzsu does.

I just remembered her infamous post about hospitals selling foreskins. I think some fundies don't circumcise.

[NurseNell]

Gothard is big on circumcision, so the Bates and Duggars probably do.

http://billgothard.com/news/circumcision

The reasons Gothard lists do make sense and reflect what has been known in the medical community for some time. When I was in the Navy uncircumcised sailors and Marines came in for circumcisions by the droves. When I was a student nurse in Buffalo, NY many of our OB patients were from Poland and other Eastern European countries. They did not get their baby boys circumcised because of the recent history of the Holocaust. They didn't want any chance of their boys being thought to be Jewish.

[clibbyjo]

If they are the granola/homesteading type fundies they do not. Most of the fundie I know are this type and none of them circ.

[Mama hamster]

I don't know any Christians from Germany who would be circumzised but my atheist husband is, due to medical reasons.I recently watched a very interesting documentary by Danae Elon about her decision making process

http://danaeelon-films.com/partly-private/

Edited for sentence cleanup

[Kishiria]

This is what I was thinking. Zsuzsu is German/Hungarian and they don't circumcise over there. Trust Zsuzsu though to find a crackpot reason not to circumcise other than, "It's a personal choice for the parent."

[Kishiria]

This is what I was thinking. Zsuzsu is German/Hungarian and they don't circumcise over there. Trust Zsuzsu though to find a crackpot reason not to circumcise other than, "It's a personal choice for the parent."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Gothard is big on circumcision, so the Bates and Duggars probably do.

http://billgothard.com/news/circumcision

Why is there a Medical Training Institute as part of Gothard's empire? Seriously, he thinks that it can ADVISE doctors? Because that's just what every doctor wants - to be told after 4 years of med school and even more years of residency and annual mandatory Continuing Medical Education that they really need the advice contained in some internet printout from a religious site. :roll:

Medically, routine infant circumcision has pros and cons, and the AAP position is that they are equally balanced. If you live in sub-

Saharan Africa, esp. in an area with sky-high rates of HIV infection, then it's recommended. I'm not sure why a religious website is getting involved with advice on the issue.