7-year-old Killed for not Knowing Bible Verses

[Aine]

https://people.com/crime/wisconsin-boy-allegedly-killed-during-punishment-not-knowing-bible-verses/

I'm still reading up on some other articles for some background on this so I don't have a lot of comments right now except for stating the horror I'm feeling. I'm not sure how far I'll get with reading into it this evening so I thought I'd post it now so maybe someone can share some links they come across too.

So incredibly sad.

[Briefly]

I have no words for this.  I read the article and the whole thing is horrible beyond words.

[apandaaries]

Is this being discussed elsewhere?  https://www.wmur.com/article/docs-7-year-old-buried-alive-in-coffin-of-snow-during-punishment-for-not-knowing-bible-verses/26161679

Bail is set highest for the now-15 year old (14 at the time of the murder), though it appears he was acting under his parents' orders. The article also mentions that the children were "placed" with the Hauschultzes, which makes me wonder if they (he had siblings)  were foster children.

Here's the first article I saw: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/02/7-year-old-boy-killed-while-being-punished-for-failing-to-memorize-bible-verses/?fbclid=IwAR3NpDJ2SMO2vCJ5Y8cEs6FYvl2qM30TQgO7ND7BCsHnF2RKYeMV51eraZo

Feel free to merge if I'm being a ninny who just can't locate the original topic.

[danvillebelle]

Isn't that the same county as the Making a Murderer guys?  Yikes.

That poor baby.  May he rest in peace (and his abusers/killers spend the rest of their lives in prison).

[Palimpsest]

I don't think we have another thread on this.

This was apparently a CPS case so Ethan must have had a terrible short life.  The Hauschultzes are described as court appointed guardians and may actually be relatives of the sibling group.  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ethan-hauschultz-bible-verses/

Also the complaint.   http://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Timothy-Hauschultz-complaint.pdf

Everything about this stinks of Pearl methods and is reminiscent of the Carri and Larry Williams case.  The marching with logs, the beating, the hypothermia, the older child assisting with the discipline torture.

This is a bad one. 

[hoipolloi]

This is horrific. ITA that this smacks of Mike & Debi Pearl's shite wherein babies and children are punished in order to "break their wills" when in reality the child is simply unable to do something requested by an adult. 

Given that the teenager was responsible for "overseeing" punishments decreed by the parents, there is no way that the Timothy & Tina Hauschultz aren't culpable. The cruelty & torture that Damian inflicted on Ethan did not come out of nowhere. 

I hope they all get maximum sentences and I hope that the teenage son gets some therapy along with any prison time he might serve.

Is there any info on their church, if they have one, or their actual beliefs? Dollars to donuts, they consider themselves "pro-life."

[Aine]

I did a bit of reading around and the kids were the nieces and nephews of Timothy Hauschultz. The mother of children has substance use issues and appears to now be in recovery and also knowingly opening herself up to the judgement of the public regarding her behaviors that led to Ethan and his siblings being taken by CPS in order to keep the story in the media and push for an arrest. I saw her comment on some news stories that she had been interviewed for as well and she wasn't defending her own actions- it was more saying prior to the arrests, "Say what you want about me because I am putting myself out there knowing what others will say about me but I want everyone to care about the fact that my child was murdered, no one has been held responsible, and Ethan was innocent and has been killed and there needs to be justice for him. Attack me but don't let that be only focus because my son's life mattered and the events around his death need to be investigated and charges need to be laid."

I also read in one news article that the now 15-year-old freely confessed immediately and that he took enjoyment in making the children suffer because he resented them coming to live with him and his parents. 

[Terrie]

Good on the mom. We're so quick to judge addicts as having some fatal moral flaw, as opposed to people with real, complex struggles that have physical, mental and social aspects. I'd say she's showing more character than most of the people judging her.

[Briefly]

4 hours ago, Terrie said:

Good on the mom. We're so quick to judge addicts as having some fatal moral flaw, as opposed to people with real, complex struggles that have physical, mental and social aspects. I'd say she's showing more character than most of the people judging her.

I agree with you.  She knows she made mistakes and that those mistakes have cost her dearly.  But she wants her son to have justice.  She knows full well what kind of interest there will be in her and that she will be blamed, people are very quick to judge non-custodial parents and addicts.  But I think she genuinely wants to keep his name out there, she wants people to know and the correct perpetrators to be help responsible.

[Aine]

4 hours ago, Terrie said:

Good on the mom. We're so quick to judge addicts as having some fatal moral flaw, as opposed to people with real, complex struggles that have physical, mental and social aspects. I'd say she's showing more character than most of the people judging her.

Yes. I looked at her FB and things and it seemed pretty typical until recently of most of my family and clients with substance use. I obviously do not think that child abuse or neglect should be tolerated due to substance abuse, however multiple studies show that upwards of 80% of women specifically that become dependent and addicted more colloquially (as opposed to occasional problematic use) have significant trauma histories and when you scratch the surface, they are doing it to cope because it was likely the coping mechanism modeled for them. I can count on my hands the amount of substance users I've treated (of hundreds) that really do not care about their children or what they've done to them while in the spiral of addiction. There are many who want to avoid talking about it or thinking about it because of the shame/guilt/pain/disgust they feel in regard to their behavior. I don't let them avoid it but I also try and give them coping strategies to deal with the feelings that come up and try and help them realize that showing some self-compassion doesn't mean absolving yourself but it can mean the realization that you did all you knew how to at the time to cope but now we can work on tools to do better and your kids seeing you doing all you can to do better is powerful within that cycle. You slip up? It's not starting from zero again the way AA and NA paint it. Get support immediately, learn from it...a lapse doesn't have to mean a full on relapse.

I say this as a now adult who is the child of a polysubstance user that has never tried to do better really. She blamed everyone but herself, including me, and still does. But I grew up in a substance-using household and my whole maternal family used various things at various points. Substance abuse doesn't make you a psychopath- it can definitely make you not yourself and do irreparable damage to children and even kill them and there is no excuse for that and consequences are consequences. But in my experience, further shaming someone for what they did when high is not effective. That does not mean condoning their actions or ever indicating that what they did was okay. But you need to recognize their guilt and shame and how vulnerable most in addiction are and give them hope and the strategies to do better in the future.

 

 

I personally find it telling that there is zero mention of the father of Ethan and his siblings (including his twin- who also went missing last month from a foster home and was found safe in the local YMCA) and he is the brother and uncle and brother-in-law of those charged. Ethan's twin is Anthony Hauschultz Jr and his father is the senior. Maybe he is in prison, I don't know. But I do see the mom putting herself out there, while in recovery and grieving her child so she's vulnerable currently, and not painting herself as the victim but trying to get justice. It did take 9 months to file any charges against anyone even though it appears Damian confessed right after it happened ?‍♀️ 

[luv2laugh]

I feel violently ill. How tragic and horrific.

[Palimpsest]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:19 PM, Aine said:

It did take 9 months to file any charges against anyone even though it appears Damian confessed right after it happened ?‍♀️ 

Yes, there are a lot of details in the complaint I linked above.  It is for Timothy not Damian but the info is there.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out in court.  I suspect that Damian's defense will be that he was only following his fathers orders, and imitating his father's abusive behaviors towards himself.  It sounds as though he might have a point.  Also at only 14 he may not have comprehended that his actions were indeed life threatening.  His confession seem to support that conclusion.  He thought Ethan was "playing possum." 

And I fully expect Timothy to chuck Damian under the bus and say that Damian is a bad seed, an out of control bully, and he never would have approved his actions  The surviving children tell a different story.  They report that Damian was a bully, that both Timothy and Tina had been told, and that they had failed to stop Damian hitting them before.

Tina's preferred method of discipline was to have the children stand barefoot or kneel on gravel in the snow, but she was fully aware of the wood carrying.

Also Timothy says that he instituted the wood carrying punishment because he had been told that he "wasn't allowed to hit" the children.  Previous CPS involvement perhaps.

IMO, all of them should spend time in prison.  As always, I am not keen on trying children like Damian as adults, and this kid seems to have been brutalised and not comprehend what he has done.  I hope he can get good therapy in prison and be rehabilitated, because he is not safe around any child at the moment.

 

[Hisey]

8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

It sounds as though he might have a point.  Also at only 14 he may not have comprehended that his actions were indeed life threatening.  His confession seem to support that conclusion. 

This is such an interesting perspective to me. Josh Duggar was 14 and it's rare to see someone cut him any slack for molesting his sisters at that age. But torturing and murdering a little boy? Isn't that actually much worse?

10 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

As always, I am not keen on trying children like Damian as adults, and this kid seems to have been brutalised and not comprehend what he has done. 

Again, the comparison with Josh Duggar is interesting. I dunno. Hard to say that 14-year olds know molestation is wrong, but they don't know that about torturing children and burying them under the snow till they are dead.

[apandaaries]

42 minutes ago, Hisey said:

This is such an interesting perspective to me. Josh Duggar was 14 and it's rare to see someone cut him any slack for molesting his sisters at that age. But torturing and murdering a little boy? Isn't that actually much worse?

Again, the comparison with Josh Duggar is interesting. I dunno. Hard to say that 14-year olds know molestation is wrong, but they don't know that about torturing children and burying them under the snow till they are dead.

I read P's writings quite differently.  A 14 year (now 15) old still has a developing brain and this boy appears to have been following orders.  A life in jail, with notoriously  horrible therapy/rehab options, does nothing to change his potential future nor allow for true restitution. 

For Josh, the criticisms I see are that he was denied potential therapy and rehabilitation due to his parents opting to cover up for his actions, instead of having him face consequences.

Both were horribly wrong actions. Both appeared to have been brought up in environments which encouraged such behaviors -- hyper-violent H family, and hyper-sexual Duggar family.  But Josh wasn't told to do anything like he did, and he did confess (which JB basically blew off).  Josh had the window of opportunity for therapy, rehabilitation, recovery, and all of those were ignored/overlooked by his ultra-godly parents. I see more writers upset that he was denied that opportunity to reform because his parents knew more than everyone else.

Damien, on the other hand, was following orders. The whole family knew that "carrying wood" for two hours at a time (with a 5 second rest break per lap) was the punishment, and that Damien was in charge. Timothy even selected a larger weight for Ethan to carry, to "prove he was strong," while Damien basically carried a stick. 

This was a 14 year old carrying out the sadistic orders of a sadistic parent. His brain hasn't fully developed and life in prison likely won't allow him to ever psychologically take responsibility, make reparations, heal, etc. His actions were a travesty and he'll live with those forever.  But warehousing fucked-up teenagers in jail/prison, even when they've done horrible, awful things, does little to help the long term health of our country. 

[Eponine]

36 minutes ago, Hisey said:

This is such an interesting perspective to me. Josh Duggar was 14 and it's rare to see someone cut him any slack for molesting his sisters at that age. But torturing and murdering a little boy? Isn't that actually much worse?

Again, the comparison with Josh Duggar is interesting. I dunno. Hard to say that 14-year olds know molestation is wrong, but they don't know that about torturing children and burying them under the snow till they are dead.

I think you also have to consider the behavior that was modeled for both of them. It appears that Damien was shown throughout his whole life that violence and horrific punishment amounting to abuse is normal, okay behavior. He took it to an extreme, but it's not really outside the realm of what he knew. Also at that age a lot of children don't really understand what would result in extreme injury or death, or what the long-term consequences of that would be. I don't think it's really cutting him slack, but putting him in context.

Molestation of family members was never modeled to Josh Duggar as normal, okay behavior. Sexual touching was taboo for him and he had to actively surmount his parents' words and behavior to do what he did - not only did it take it to an extreme, but he took a turn to actions that were not normalized at all. I would also say it's unlikely that at that age Josh was able to understand the long-terms effects and damage his actions would have on his victims, so I think they are alike in that way.

I do think there is some potential grey area with Josh, as it was very normalized to him to see girls and women as sexual objects and for him to focus on sex a lot more than normal. But he twisted that way of thinking further than Damien did in terms of their actions vs how they were brought up. Not to say Josh's crimes were worse at all, they just required a bit of an extra push.

The other aspect here is that Damien is still a child so I think a lot of people will have hope that he can change significantly. So if he is reformed and becomes a repentant, upstanding guy when he's Josh's age people will likely keep a slightly sympathetic attitude. Josh, though, still seems to not understand the severity and consequences of what he did so I think people have basically written him off. If Damien goes that way I think most people will stop rationalizing his childhood violence, so hindsight plays a role here, too.

[Palimpsest]

@Hisey you do understand that there are many perspectives on FJ.  We do not all speak with one voice.

I don't think my attitude is even terribly "rare" on Free Jinger.  I also considered mitigating factors for Josh Duggar.  That does not mean I cut him any slack, do not see the molestations as a serious crime, and don't think he should have been charged, punished, and given extensive therapy.  I do.

Damian has confessed to a horrendous crime and should be punished for it.  However, I see many things wrong with trying juveniles in adult courts, which is a rising trend unfortunately.  At least WI does not have the death penalty, which I also disagree with, but he is a teenager with the possibility of rehabilitation who may be imprisoned for life.

1 hour ago, apandaaries said:

This was a 14 year old carrying out the sadistic orders of a sadistic parent. His brain hasn't fully developed and life in prison likely won't allow him to ever psychologically take responsibility, make reparations, heal, etc. His actions were a travesty and he'll live with those forever.  But warehousing fucked-up teenagers in jail/prison, even when they've done horrible, awful things, does little to help the long term health of our country. 

Exactly.  And being sent to an adult facility might in fact exacerbate his very serious problems, to say nothing of the risks of getting him raped or murdered even prior to going to trial.    

He will not get the mental health treatment he desperately needs in an adult prison.  He may be a true sociopath who should be put behind bars for life, but I still have hope that he can be rehabilitated. 

[Dandruff]

14 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

He will not get the mental health treatment he desperately needs in an adult prison.  He may be a true sociopath who should be put behind bars for life, but I still have hope that he can be rehabilitated.

I tend to agree, though I'm probably less optimistic than you are.  From what I've read, I think he needs to be separated from society for a very long time but with the hope of potential parole if he can be rehabilitated.  If he's sent to a juvenile facility then he'd have at least a few years during which he might receive effective therapy.  By the time he becomes an adult, it will hopefully have been determined whether and how he might become fit for release.

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I tend to agree, though I'm probably less optimistic than you are.

I'm not very optimistic, truth be told.  I just want him to have a chance.  As I would any teen whose brain is not fully developed.

A lot of people don't know that even in juvenile court minors can get very, very, long sentences..  And juveniles who show absolutely no evidence of remorse or understanding of their crimes can be transferred to adult prisons when they turn 18.

And I do understand that Damian is innocent until proven guilty - but his confession and the reports that he laughed during it chill me to the bone.  He may be beyond repair.

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

A lot of people don't know that even in juvenile court minors can get very, very, long sentences..  And juveniles who show absolutely no evidence of remorse or understanding of their crimes can be transferred to adult prisons when they turn 18.

And I do understand that Damian is innocent until proven guilty - but his confession and the reports that he laughed during it chill me to the bone.  He may be beyond repair.

An additional, significant problem is that the juvenile justice & incarceration system in Wisconsin is, at best, in serious disarray at this time, thanks in no small part to that fuckwad, Scott Walker.

After years of reported abuse and neglect at Lincoln Hills Youth Prison, the state of WI is closing that facility (which is probably where someone like Damian would end up) and are trying to fast track new, replacement facilities and a radically changed approach. 

It's unlikely that this will all happen before Damian receives & begins to serve any prison sentence in this case. Who knows what if any therapy or other behavioral treatment he'll receive.

 

[Aine]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, there are a lot of details in the complaint I linked above.  It is for Timothy not Damian but the info is there.

Oh boy...I don't know how I missed that link but it is some tough reading.

Knowing the evidence for brain development, as you do too, I'm in agreement about any juveniles being charged as adults. Damian's statements seem to indicate that he didn't even understand that any of what he did was bad or dangerous. That even after how much he tortured Ethan, he thought Ethan was 'playing dead'. But then at the same time, he adds in details that were completely contradictory to the other children's statements like that he 'left a breathing hole in the snow' for Ethan. That seems contradictory to the rest of his statements where he doesn't see the harm in anything he did prior to that but there is where he attempts to lie to cover it all up? That shows some understanding of his actions  Although it is clear that he was punished just as harshly and he probably sought some approval from his father and mother for running a tight ship while they were out.

Impulse control comes with the development of the prefrontal cortex and that is not fully developed until one is in the early to mid twenties. I know I did things that were much crueler and self-centered as an angry and traumatized 13-15 year old than I'd have ever ever done after that. I never hurt a child or animal or anyone more vulnerable than me but I did lash out at people who didn't deserve it verbally and I was mean and it was in contrast to my personality at other times. But I clearly remember feeling so incredibly angry that no amount of damage that I could do would ever seem enough. It never dragged on over hours and hours. But I strongly believe that any adolescent, but especially one that has had abuse as their norm, deserves a chance at rehabilitation. 

My heart breaks for all those kids. 

[Glasgowghirl]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:55 PM, Palimpsest said:

Everything about this stinks of Pearl methods and is reminiscent of the Carri and Larry Williams case.  The marching with logs, the beating, the hypothermia, the older child assisting with the discipline torture.

This is a bad one. 

I thought the same thing, the biological William's children joined in on the beatings and punishments of Hana and Immanuel and admitted to doing so in court and thought nothing about it was wrong. 

While not excusing the 15 year old in this case but while he may have been in charge and dished out the beating that killed him. I hold the adults more responsible, they instructed him to do that, they probably done the beatings themselves regularly and previous beatings by them may still have been a factor in his death.