Hey Swedes. Apparently, You Guys Are Screwed Up

[debrand]

mercatornet.com/articles/view/its_not_all_sweet_for_kids_in_sweden

 

 

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Yet another report has been issued by the UN which paints Sweden as a paradise for children

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I want to move to Sweden. Argh. I am so jealous of you all.

 

 

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But precisely because it is so egalitarian, the Swedish state has also completely stripped marriage of any special standing in Swedish society. This is one reason why Sweden has a low marriage rate, a very high rate of cohabitation, and a very high rate of births outside marriage (more than one in two of all births).

 

So? It doesn't follow that because two people live together without a formal ceremony that they aren't committed to one another.

 

 

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In fact, even UNICEF itself, in its Report Card 7, issued in 2007, felt forced to admit, “there is evidence to associate growing up in single-parent families and stepfamilies with greater risk to well-being – including a greater risk of dropping out of school, of leaving home early, or poorer health, or low skills and of low pay.†If even UNICEF is prepared to admit this (albeit in a very muted way), then the evidence in favour of it must be overwhelming.

 

UNICEF was forced to admit this? What proof does the writer have that UNICEF was forced to write anything?

 

 

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Given the facts about family breakdown in Sweden, how then are we expected to believe that it is a paradise for children

 

It doesn't follow that because a child's parents aren't married, that the child is not in a home with his biological parents. If the parents live together than the child isn't being raised by a stepparent.

 

 

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In addition, and as Jonas Himmelstrand told the Iona Institute conference on "Women, Home and Work" in May, the vast majority of Swedish children are put in day-care from the age of one, but due to UNICEF’s commitment to equality at all costs (meaning all women must work like it or not), it doesn’t think to ask whether this might have a detrimental effect on children.

 

I"ve never visited Sweden but I doubt women forced to work. How would that even be possible in a free society? Some of you are Swedish. Perhaps you'd like to respond to this article

 

edited to add: the title is tongue in cheek. I love Swedish people. Those Belgians though...

[Clementine]

I can give a quick reply to this:

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In addition, and as Jonas Himmelstrand told the Iona Institute conference on "Women, Home and Work" in May, the vast majority of Swedish children are put in day-care from the age of one, but due to UNICEF’s commitment to equality at all costs (meaning all women must work like it or not), it doesn’t think to ask whether this might have a detrimental effect on children.

No, of course women are not required to work, it's a free country! We have a very generous parental leave, paid for by our government. 480 days per kid that the parents can split between them and use until the child is eight. You recieve about 80% of your salary.

Most parents stay at home with their child for a year or 18 months. Then we have very cheap daycare. The rate you pay depends on your salary, but I think that the maximum is $150 per child per month, all meals are included.

Women (well, everybody) are encouraged to go to university (that is free) and get a career, so that's what most people do. And since our daycare is so cheap, most women will continue with their career after their maternity leave. We are not "forced" to becoming SAHM because our childcare is bad or too expensive.

And since women make their own money, are used to taking care of ourselves and have a good place for our kids when we work, we are no longer forced to stay in a bad marriage, like many women in my grandmother's generation.

We can leave a bad marriage if we want to and go on and have a lovely life without a man. It's no longer a disgrace to be a divorced woman. Thank god for that! Long live socialism and feminism! ;)

As for this:

But precisely because it is so egalitarian, the Swedish state has also completely stripped marriage of any special standing in Swedish society. This is one reason why Sweden has a low marriage rate, a very high rate of cohabitation, and a very high rate of births outside marriage (more than one in two of all births).

It simply stretches credulity to suggest that this isn’t having any impact on children in Sweden when we know that the family based on marriage is the one that most reliably produces the best outcomes for children.

I don't understand this at all. We have a lot of families where the parents are not married, but I don't understand the difference between married parents and "cohabiting" parents. Do the kids care if the parents have a ring on their finger or not?

I'll read the full article tomorrow.

[luckylibrarian]

After reading that, I have a few questions:

1. How hard is it to learn Swedish?

2. What are Sweden's immigration policies?

3. Does Sweden need librarians?

I'm about ready to throw my stuff in a suitcase and hop on a plane. It sounds awesome.

[CanadianHippie]

After reading that, I have a few questions:

1. How hard is it to learn Swedish?

2. What are Sweden's immigration policies?

3. Does Sweden need librarians?

I'm about ready to throw my stuff in a suitcase and hop on a plane. It sounds awesome.

I love living in Canada, but there are a few places I would move to in a heartbeat and Sweden is right up there in the top three.

[Deleted08]

Did someone say Sweden? :D

[Lainey]

I love living in Canada, but there are a few places I would move to in a heartbeat and Sweden is right up there in the top three.

Sounds pretty good to me, too. Free university? Yes, please!

[DistantStar]

I have coworkers with kids from Australia and Romania. And oh the justifiable complaints about American parental leave...

I think what they're missing is that if cohabitating is the most common arrangement, then that's what the kids are going to view as normal. So it's no problem.

[clibbyjo]

Can I homeschool? I freaking hate the cold, but at least mine can still play hockey and go to college for free I will suck it up.

[Sola]

Did someone say Sweden? :D

*flail*

You know, I love the UK and being British, but right now I am really, REALLY, wanting to learn Swedish....

[Clementine]

After reading that, I have a few questions:

1. How hard is it to learn Swedish?

2. What are Sweden's immigration policies?

3. Does Sweden need librarians?

I'm about ready to throw my stuff in a suitcase and hop on a plane. It sounds awesome.

LOL! You could always seek asylum, claiming that you are persecuted because you are too liberal in your country or something!

I forgot to mention that health care and dental care is free for children under 18. :)

We also have Dolph. :) Although few Swedes can measure up to him.

I saw him in my neighbourhood last year and he is like a blonde giant, and SO good looking! He's 52, but, my oh my... I definately would! :P Oh and don't get me started on the Skarsgård family.

The article that debrand linked to seemed to be based on a lecture on families in Sweden that Jonas Himmelstrand gave. I checked out who he is and - not very surprising - he is a member of an association that wants homescooling to be legal (it's not here) and another organization that wants "freedom in chosing daycare for your children".

The latter means that they want parents to be able to stay home and take care of the kids and be paid by the government to do so.

We have very generous subsidiaries from the government for daycare, about $20 000 per child per year. That's because we think that every person should be able to support themself, even parents with small children, and the government wants to support that.

Most Swedes however don't want to support the right wing christians or crunchy granola families that want to stay at home with the kids and expect the government to pay for it.

If a parent wants to stay at home, it's possible for almost everybody to do so and live on one salary, if you downscale.

And of course, parents can chose what daycare you put your children in. There are government-owned daycare centers, private owned, daycare owned by different churches, parent co-op owned daycare centers, Montessori daycare, daycare for children with special needs... Parents just have to chose what they prefer. It's not like the evil government force families to put the kids in some indoctrinating daycare.

As for Himmelstrand, I don't know if he's a member of the christian right-wing party Christian Democrates (closest thing to fundies we have here), but I suspect so, since that's the only party that has an agenda to pay mothers to stay at home with their kids.

Of course, he will use statistics to tell the world how damaging Swedish childcare is.

Our country is in no way perfect, and our wellfare system is not as good as it was 20 years ago, but I don't think that we're worse off than most other countries. As for "The number of children reporting psychological problems is growing at a faster rate than in 11 comparable countries" - I don't know where he gets his numbers from, but if it is true, I think it could have something to do with our free health care. If a child has problems, we take it to the doctor to get help (physical or mental help). W

We don't wait and see what happens, threaten the kid with a good spanking or just ignore it.

[Stickers]

Sweden gave us the flawless women in my icon

As an America this feels like a don't bite the hand that feeds you type thing. It does sound like the Swedish government is very generous in the support it provides to parents(and everyone else), if you offered that to most parents in America they'd think you're messing with them or maybe faint.

[Soldevi]

I didn't know that homeschooling is not legal in Sweden. It is legal in Finland (right next to Sweden) although homeschooling is very rare. We have free education as well and we have quite similar social structure. I study at the university and I only pay some 90 euros per year to student healthcare system (I'll pay a nominal sum when I need to go to a doctor or a dentist or a specialist. When I got my wisdom tooth removed, I paid some 4 euros of that operation). I also get student allowance like everyone else (I think it is nowadays 70 months, the oly requirement is that you get enough credits per year). Scandinavian countries are quite often the example countries in studies even though some say we are evil socialist hells :D

Oh, and Sweden has a whole family of Skarsgård men: Stellan, Alexander, Gustaf, Sam, Bill and Valter. <3

[Deleted03]

I want to moooooove! I don't care about the cold! maybe more about lack of sun... and I'm sure I can learn a 5th language... and if all men look like the Skarsgaard boys, I'm gonna look at the universities over there :P

aaaaaaah

[clibbyjo]

Step away from the Skarsgaard. He is spoken for.

[Effie]

Sounds pretty good to me, too. Free university? Yes, please!

Yup, we even get paid to study. Well, if we take the required points will say. We won't get any money if we don't take any credits. Well, we receive 2 720 kr ( 389,62 USD) each month, for max. 240 weeks.

We don't wait and see what happens, threaten the kid with a good spanking or just ignore it.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Deleted03]

Step away from the Skarsgaard. He is spoken for.

the whole clan??? that is unfair...! and remains to be seen, nah!

[Zoom]

After reading that, I have a few questions:

1. How hard is it to learn Swedish?

2. What are Sweden's immigration policies?

3. Does Sweden need librarians?

I'm about ready to throw my stuff in a suitcase and hop on a plane. It sounds awesome.

1. Depends on how good you are at learning languages :D But it is a Germanic language and we have illiterate people from African countries who manage to learn it. If you move here you have a right to go to class and learn it :)

2. Depends :) I think the asylum idea might work :D

3. According to the latest statistics, yes apparently we do :)

As to homeschooling, the latest regulations make it VERY difficult although not wholly illegal. And the blame for the VERY difficult can be put squarely on the shoulders of a fundy church here who did not follow regulations and there was an expose about it on national television just as the latest education laws were written.

And no one has mentioned the lovely pretty Universal Health Care we have here :D

[Antigone]

Huh. I'm ready to pack up and move. A friend of hubby's moved to america from Sweden, and I was actually surprised. A teacher of mine did an internship in Sweden, and she loved it. She was always talking about the times she spent there, it made me want to move there even before reading this thread. :) I admit I may have a difficult time learning the language, but what the hey. It's worth it! ;)

[Deleted08]

:D I have too much time on my hands lol.

[emmiedahl]

I went to college with a girl from Sweden and it sounds lovely. She was here because apparently there are not enough university slots and her parents did not have the connections to get her in. But she loved her country and probably would have returned if not for falling in love with another student.

[Soldevi]

She was here because apparently there are not enough university slots and her parents did not have the connections to get her in.

That doesn't sound right. Ok, I am not Swedish but Finns can apply to Swedish universities if they meet the same requirements as Swedish students. (We have all kind of Nordic co-operation agreements between Scandinavian countries and one of them is to ensure equal access to higher education in the Nordic countries.) You can't get in with "right connections" in Finland and I don't believe that works in other Nordic countries either (unless you are Prince Daniel...). Of course, not everyone can study what they want. In my university there are majors where are for example 12 open slots per year and some might take much much more but those majors are so popular that only small percentage get in. Quite a few Nordic students choose to study abroad, especially medicine and veterinary science.

Amd hey, who said I am sharing any of the Skarsgård men! My harem, shoo.

[Effie]

I went to college with a girl from Sweden and it sounds lovely. She was here because apparently there are not enough university slots and her parents did not have the connections to get her in. But she loved her country and probably would have returned if not for falling in love with another student.

Hmm I don't understand that. To have the right connections wouldn't work here. It's supposed to be an equal education system. If you have good enough marks you will get in, or if you have scored high enough on your Swedish version of SAT. Unless she wanted to be a cop, will say. They have personal interviews by now, but that's not about having the right connections. It's about having the "right" personality (no bullying attitude for example).

[emmiedahl]

I don't know the exact situation, but that was what she told me. She was an excellent student (even though English was obviously not her first language) and did not like being in the United States, so I figured she was being honest. Maybe she did poorly on exams and would have needed connections to overcome that. She was a very quiet and sweet person, so I doubt a bullying personality kept her out.

[clibbyjo]

the whole clan??? that is unfair...! and remains to be seen, nah!

Only Alexander, you can have the dad or if there are more...

[Effie]

I don't know the exact situation, but that was what she told me. She was an excellent student (even though English was obviously not her first language) and did not like being in the United States, so I figured she was being honest. Maybe she did poorly on exams and would have needed connections to overcome that. She was a very quiet and sweet person, so I doubt a bullying personality kept her out.

Both Soldevi and I just reacted on the fact that it would not be legal to get in with "right connections". We don't have that system here. If anyone was to adapt it, he/she could be sued. 3 years ago, a person got accepted to an education at LU not based on his SAT-score or final grades. It went to court. The others students which were more qualified than he, were paid a compensation from the university.

It's a part of the "equal-education-for-all"-system. The idea is to remove class distinctions in our society and provide equal opportunities for everyone. After all, we want people from all classes to get a higher education. (Then it would be contradictory if you could get in with the right connections.)

I'm trying to understand... I'm not questioning your friend's honesty. I guess, if you want to have a postgraduate appointment, having the right connections could help a bit on the way (?). A postgraduate appointment is like a form of employment after all. But mainly they will look at your work, grades, thesis(es) and your application for the post.