Why do fundies think they are persecuted?

[Beeks]

Really, where does this come from? They really think there's a war on Christmas and that they must memorize the Bible because it might be banned? :shock: I think some of it is wanting to feel special but a lot of them seem to actually believe this crap. Why?

[debrand]

Part of it is their belief in the end times. They honestly believe that the world will keep getting worse and worse and worse. That is partially why they look to the past. If the future is supposed to be terrible, the past must be great.

In the future, Christians are supposed to be persecuted. It would go against their beliefs to view the world as a safe place for 'real' Christians. Many of them believe that being a real Christian means that an individual will be hated by nonChristians. To prove to themselves that they are real Christians, they must be hatred and reviled.

[Sola]

Really, where does this come from? They really think there's a war on Christmas and that they must memorize the Bible because it might be banned? :shock: I think some of it is wanting to feel special but a lot of them seem to actually believe this crap. Why?

I think some of it is down to being convinced by others that they are persecuted. Some people will think the bible will banned - heck there is enough distortion and propaganda coming from pastors that some people will be convinced its the truth.

That in itself has come about from the decline of Christianity in the West. People see a rise in atheism and of course immigration which brings in other religions such as Islam. They are being forced to live in a multicultural society which 30 years ago was a Christianity based one. Now they have to take into account views of Muslims, Hindus, Atheists etc and they don't like it. People don't like change.

Plus of course there are those who are trying to bring about a self fulfilling prophesy. If they are persecuted that means Revelations is correct and that it must be 'End Times'. The Rapture must be around the corner. So they see every little criticism and allowance made for others as persecution, 'cos you know, the bible says it must be.

[HoneyBunny]

Here is my beef with the so-called (fake) war on Christmas...

For centuries, Christians have managed to celebrate Christmas under the most horrendous conditions, such as fear of persecution, blatant discrimination, in back rooms under cover of darkness, etc. Here we are in the US, with total freedom of religion, and these Christians are getting their knickers in a twist because the WalMart greeter says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

These people are stupid and nuts. And arrogant, because they think their way is the only way. Stupidity along with mental instability and arrogance are a really scary combination.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Jesus was assissinated by the Romans. The followers of Jesus were fed to the lions. The sermon on the mount glorified martyrdom. This is a central theme in Christianity from the very beginning. It is so central that even after Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome and Christianity spread through Europe and beyond, any attempt by any group to resist them is seen as some sort of persecution thing.

There is a big theme in Christianity to be religiocentric...meaning that accepting even the slightest trickle of acceptance of the beliefs of others is seen as an affront to Christian freedom to be Christian.

In the current times, we are seeing a resurgance of this kind of thinking, particularly when it comes to Muslims who have their own persecution thing going on. Even more threatening, perhaps to religious extremists of any kind, is the fact that even most folks who identify with a religion also live with the cognitive dissonance of doubt. Doubt is perhaps the greatest risk to those who were raised to be fearful Christians.

Healthy people are capable of understanding that deity can neither be proven no disproven and are content to believe as they do. they are also more able to accept that other very good people are content to believe something else and not be their enemy/

[Hane]

I think it's largely because they feel their white religious majority status is being threatened, and,with it, their sense of entitlement. Ohnoes--increasing numbers of people aren't THEIR brand of Christian! (And the Supreme Court is down to only 5/9ths white dudes.)

[Kaylee]

Part of it is because of scripture verses that say Christians will be persecuted for righteousness sake. Also, the popularity of movies and book portraying the rapture and end times and preaching that they are imminent ties into it, with people believing that a sign or part of it will be the widespread persecution of Christians. There's also the culture behind it - a lot of conservative Christians are involved in far right politics and there are crossovers there to people with various theories and predictions of persecution, detainment camps, brainwashing, etc and so on. The John Birch Society types are still around, and many of them took a more religious bent in the late 70s to early 90s which has spread to more moderate conservatives; That whole mindset breeds all sorts of paranoia and persecution complexes.

There is also the history of persecution and martyrdom in Christianity, and the way that the Bible presents both as something to bring glory to God. Some people like to picture themselves in those positions because they believe they are getting more blessings from it and because they want the attentions and recognition from other believers to boost their own egos and/or to gain sympathy. People hear others frame everyday stuff as persecution and suddenly they start to see that they are being "persecuted" in the same way, or at least claim to be in order to fit in.

Personally, I think it is worse than a slap in the face to those Christians in history and in other parts of the world for American believers to claim persecution for the things they do. Persecution is being not allowed to meet or worship for fear of prison, death, or torture. It is not being told other religions have equal rights and are entitled to representation, not having your holidays mandated for the entire world, or not being allowed to pray or preach to a crowd at a secular event.

[skankbiscuit]

Methinks they all have been reading the "Left Behind" series too much :lol:

[Dinorah]

The persecution mania of American fundies never ceases to baffle me as an European, because Christianity enters the public sphere in the US in many ways that would be unthinkeable in Europe. For instance, I can't imagine any MP or president reading out a psalm at a national commemoration like Obama did on 9/11, or politicians' religion undergoing so much scrutiny. It also means being very little aware of real persecutions of Christians that go on in many parts of the world (as in risking being imprisoned/tortured/murdered).

But it seems they get a massive height from playing the persecuted, oppressed minority.

[AnnoDomini]

Part of it is their belief in the end times. They honestly believe that the world will keep getting worse and worse and worse. That is partially why they look to the past. If the future is supposed to be terrible, the past must be great.

In the future, Christians are supposed to be persecuted. It would go against their beliefs to view the world as a safe place for 'real' Christians. Many of them believe that being a real Christian means that an individual will be hated by nonChristians. To prove to themselves that they are real Christians, they must be hatred and reviled.

Yeah. Just the other day, my sister and I were talking about my weird desire to be 'accepted', and she said that 'if you're ever truly accepted by anyone in the world, that means you're on the wrong path'.

[Swamptribe]

To many Christians, particularly of the more fundamental or evangelical type, it's a badge of honor to be 'persecuted'. Frequently, persecuted is defined to mean 'they dare to disagree with me publicly'.

I find the whole idea that there is a war on Christmas ridiculous. I work in retail, starting around Halloween, and going through the New Year I simply greet customers with 'Happy Holidays". This has nothing to do with Hanukkah, Kwanzaa the Solstice or Islamic holidays. It has to do with the fact that I have to keep switching Holidays during this period "Happy Halloween", Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. They tend to get mixed up. It's much easier just to say "Happy Holidays" for a couple of months then to be laughed at for saying "Happy Thanksgiving" after Thanksgiving.

[ElphabaGalinda]

You know what's even crazier to me? The Christians who cry persecution in North America when they're just "forced" to accept that other religions exist would probably think that Christians that are really persecuted, like could be killed for their religion, aren't Real True Christians. Shouldn't they logically think those Christians are better than them because they're really being persecuted, if that's why they claim persecution in the first place? Next time someone we talk about here claims persecution, i'm going to point this out to them.

[bananacat]

I think it's mostly projection. Certain Christians want to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat, so of course they can only imagine others wanting to do the same thing to them. In their mind, everyone has this tribal instinct toward their religion. They can't even conceive of a Muslim or atheist meeting them and not actively trying to recruit them or get rid of them, because they could never meet a Muslim without doing the same. They see the worst in people because they are the worst people. The only Christians I have known that have had persecution complexes have been the ones who are quick to judge and hate others. These have been the minority of the Christians I have known, but they also tend to be the loudest. They annoyed me even when I was still Christian.

The other thing that annoys me that sort of relates to the persecution is this weird myth that Christians are a tiny minority in the United States. Part of it is that it's hard to be a persecuted majority, but a bigger part of it is that for the persecution-types, the vast majority of Christians just don't count. They're not Real True Christians . It annoys me to no end when some evangalizer asks "Have you heard about Jesus?" Any human over the age of 2 that has spent more than 5 minutes in a Western country has heard of Jesus. But these people have been told that the Bible is just so perfectly convincing, that all it takes is a simple reading and anyone will be instantly converted. They believe their logic is sound and solid that nobody could possibly deny it. So the only reason that anyone could be non-Christian is because they have never heard the story.

Ironically, evangalizers were one of the things that pushed me away from Christianity. I just hated being around them when they invaded my non-Evangelical church and it was so hard to just be polite and not refute their nonsense. So for all the souls they are trying to save, they've probably managed to push away just as many.

As for the alleged War on Christmas, I always wish I could tell people "Have a Merry Christmas but I hope your New Year sucks".

[LynnKaboom]

As for the War on Christmas, I always think it's better to say Happy Holidays to everyone than say Merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate it and look like an idiot. People generally don't wear T-shirts or hats that proclaim what religion they are. When my mom was working in a bank a while back, she was in such a good mood that the holidays were coming and told her boss "Merry Christmas!" Well, it turned out that her boss was Jewish, and even though she didn't really have a problem with it, my mom still felt really stupid.

Besides, I love holidays. I've been to Eid parties with my Muslim friends, I've given Hanukkah presents to my Jewish friends, I've gotten special snacks on Diwali from my Hindu friends, and a pagan friend invited me to a Solstice party last year, but I got the flu the day before it was supposed to happen and couldn't go. I like to party. I like presents. I like holiday decorations. I just like the general feeling of goodwill that the holiday season inspires. I don't get why people don't see this.

[FlorenceHamilton]

As for the War on Christmas, I always think it's better to say Happy Holidays to everyone than say Merry Christmas to someone who doesn't celebrate it and look like an idiot. People generally don't wear T-shirts or hats that proclaim what religion they are. When my mom was working in a bank a while back, she was in such a good mood that the holidays were coming and told her boss "Merry Christmas!" Well, it turned out that her boss was Jewish, and even though she didn't really have a problem with it, my mom still felt really stupid.

Besides, I love holidays. I've been to Eid parties with my Muslim friends, I've given Hanukkah presents to my Jewish friends, I've gotten special snacks on Diwali from my Hindu friends, and a pagan friend invited me to a Solstice party last year, but I got the flu the day before it was supposed to happen and couldn't go. I like to party. I like presents. I like holiday decorations. I just like the general feeling of goodwill that the holiday season inspires. I don't get why people don't see this.

This.

[purpleeee]

I think it's mostly projection. Certain Christians want to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat, so of course they can only imagine others wanting to do the same thing to them. In their mind, everyone has this tribal instinct toward their religion. They can't even conceive of a Muslim or atheist meeting them and not actively trying to recruit them or get rid of them, because they could never meet a Muslim without doing the same. They see the worst in people because they are the worst people. The only Christians I have known that have had persecution complexes have been the ones who are quick to judge and hate others. These have been the minority of the Christians I have known, but they also tend to be the loudest. They annoyed me even when I was still Christian.

I think you have a great point there. People who persecute have this idea. They don't realize that saying happy holidays isn't excluding Christmas. It's just being more inclusive. Persecution is if you have to celebrate in secret and can't have any obvious signs of your affiliation (say, jesus fish) showing. There is no war on Christmas, there is only good people trying to be more accepting of everyone.

[dormouse]

We should make them watch the 1976 movie Tokugawa onna keibatsu-emaki: Ushi-zaki no kei (Shogun's Sadism), which is about the persecution of Christians in Japan during Shogun era. The torture scenes are very realistic for a 70's movie. It would show our fundies what REAL persecution of Christians is.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Personally, I think it is worse than a slap in the face to those Christians in history and in other parts of the world for American believers to claim persecution for the things they do. Persecution is being not allowed to meet or worship for fear of prison, death, or torture. It is not being told other religions have equal rights and are entitled to representation, not having your holidays mandated for the entire world, or not being allowed to pray or preach to a crowd at a secular event.

QFT.

[MrsYoungie]

The trouble is only a small percentage of Americans are the *right kind* of Christian. Perfect example was last week at the 9/11 memorial ceremony. It was held in a church!!! but apparently it wasn't the right kind of church. And they only had one Christian minister and he wasn't a fundy so he didn't count.

PERSECUTION!!!!1111eleventy