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Ladylike: Living Biblically


MamaJunebug

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This might just do it.

Might make me turn in my Lutheran card.

cph.org/p-28440-ladylike-living-biblically.aspx

I heard it promoted on the conservative talk show "Issues Etc." today, and still being in the time warp that results from watching "Mad Men" episodes, my heart sank. It's the 50s and 60s all over again. Conservative Lutheranism has always been the genteel, respectfully speaking end of the misogyny spectrum and I've always been able to laugh it off.

To worsen matters, the authors are sisters. Females.

From the publisher's website:

Overview

In a society where conversations about gender have too often become stale and predictable, LadyLike: Living Biblically reimagines what it means to be a Christian woman in our feminized secular society.

Radically retro, freshly old-fashioned, and powerfully submissive, Rosie Adle and Rebekah Curtis, two playful and mischievous sisters, challenge us to rethink everything we thought we knew about men and women. Like a jolt of espresso, or a polar bear plunge, their writing enlivens the senses, helping us to see the world, as it were, for the first time.

"Playful and mischievous." Well, sure. Because examining women's role in the church in the 2010's would only BE something clever and cute and ... Oh my gawd they used the word "mischievous."

I promised y'all a commentary on Vicki Botkin's odious "She shall be called woman" and I WILL deliver. But review the dreck* of "Ladylike"? That'd be like handing the condemned prisoner the rope on which to hang herself. No can do.

Of my future as a formal member of Lutheranism, I quietly despair.

*Yes, I am calling it "dreck" without reading a word of it. Here I sit, I can do no other. But God does, and will, help me.

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Interesting. I know back when Jennie Chancey and the Illinois Oiler published Passionate Housewives Desperate for God, they were in the midst of a mini-surge of "biblical womanhood" websites, books and articles. I'm starting to wonder if we're coming back around to a renewed anti-feminist push again. There are definitely writers in the religious arena for it, but Phyllis Schlafly is quite elderly, and I'm not sure there is someone in the right-of-center mainstream to take the place that she did. Plus, the culture has changed quite a bit.

I hadn't seen this book, but I did see where Crossway is publishing (also in May) a biblical womanhood book called The Accidental Feminist, and I know Lies Women Believe is also getting a new push in bookstores and I'm suddenly seeing it featured at various churches all at once in my area (which pretty much screams "marketing push" to me).

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By now I figured we should be seeing the pushback to the pushback. Feminism is cool again! :cracking-up:

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Interesting. I know back when Jennie Chancey and the Illinois Oiler published Passionate Housewives Desperate for God, they were in the midst of a mini-surge of "biblical womanhood" websites, books and articles. I'm starting to wonder if we're coming back around to a renewed anti-feminist push again. There are definitely writers in the religious arena for it, but Phyllis Schlafly is quite elderly, and I'm not sure there is someone in the right-of-center mainstream to take the place that she did. Plus, the culture has changed quite a bit.

I hadn't seen this book, but I did see where Crossway is publishing (also in May) a biblical womanhood book called The Accidental Feminist, and I know Lies Women Believe is also getting a new push in bookstores and I'm suddenly seeing it featured at various churches all at once in my area (which pretty much screams "marketing push" to me).

Schlafly is grooming and promoting her niece, Suzanne Venker. She's been on Fox a few times and writes elsewhere. She's just as hypocritical as Auntie Phyll.

Are the Ladylike women Missouri Synod Lutherans? Or some conservative branch of Lutheranism? I've only heard of the Missouri Synod branch being really insane (and they are), but maybe due to my location I'm missing out on some crazies.

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Hey Mama J, don't despair. Come on over and sit next to me at my ELCA Lutheran Church. We have women pastors, we have gay pastors and lots and lots of love for all God's children. 8-)

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Hey Mama J, don't despair. Come on over and sit next to me at my ELCA Lutheran Church. We have women pastors, we have gay pastors and lots and lots of love for all God's children. 8-)

That's the branch of Lutheranism I'm personally familiar with, and it's all about God's love for people -- gay people, trans people, women people, kid people, men people, whoever. Actually, my mom's old church in the Bay Area even had some St. Francis of Assisi celebration day (interesting cross-over, no?) and invited pets to come get blessings. :lol: I'd say they're pretty welcoming, overall.

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Who could be the new misogyny poster girls though? Is there anyone to take the Botkinette and Philips girls' crowns?

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"powerfully submissive"

Doesn't work. Being submissive means not having power unless you're in a BDSM relationship where the sub has the power to end things immediately and overrule a Dom. But that's not what they mean.

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"powerfully submissive"

Doesn't work. Being submissive means not having power unless you're in a BDSM relationship where the sub has the power to end things immediately and overrule a Dom. But that's not what they mean.

You've got that right. It's the old "she stoops to conquer" and "gentle persuasion" and "by your quiet humility your husband may be won over."

Never a thought to a woman speaking her mind directly. That would be "aggressive." A man, OTOH, speaking his mind is "take-charge," oo goody goody!

Amandaaries and javafriend, thank you for the nice invitation and recommendation! I may be headed that way. A lot of disparate things have combined in my life to the point that I now attend my (crazy conservative) congregation's worship service once a month, and that's the Saturday that I have a volunteer job I actually enjoy. One of the disparate things was the pastor proclaiming in a sermon that if we didn't take communion every single blessed (literally!) time it was offered, we were ... well, I forget the actual adjective.

Suzanne Venker is an Issues Etc. darling (Issues Etc being the flagship conservative Lutheran conversation radio program).

Oh, here are the sister-authorettes.

www.cph.org/m-168-rebekah-curtis-and-rose-adle.aspx

11 children between them and both married to pastors. Charming. I'd actually be relieved to hear that the dear mischievous little darlins didn't actually write the book, but their hubbies did, because spritely mama-ladies /=/ writers, you know. Kind of like the way Mybug in "Cold Comfort Farm" informs any and all that the Bronte brother actually wrote all the Bronte sisters' works. In this case, I'd be glad to know it wasn't from the minds of two females that such b.s. arose.

Anyhoo, the sisters - while being perfectly fine-looking women - don't have the pizzazz of the Botkinettes. I think we're mostly safe from the specter of another cosplaying, sermonizing duo.

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Interesting. I know back when Jennie Chancey and the Illinois Oiler published Passionate Housewives Desperate for God, they were in the midst of a mini-surge of "biblical womanhood" websites, books and articles. I'm starting to wonder if we're coming back around to a renewed anti-feminist push again. There are definitely writers in the religious arena for it, but Phyllis Schlafly is quite elderly, and I'm not sure there is someone in the right-of-center mainstream to take the place that she did. Plus, the culture has changed quite a bit.

I hadn't seen this book, but I did see where Crossway is publishing (also in May) a biblical womanhood book called The Accidental Feminist, and I know Lies Women Believe is also getting a new push in bookstores and I'm suddenly seeing it featured at various churches all at once in my area (which pretty much screams "marketing push" to me).

I read PHDFG, it was sappy, beginning with the hook of trying to be cute about a popular TV show back then. :lol:

This looks... discouraging as well.

post-10046-14452000246283_thumb.jpg

She lives in the Duggars' area, I wonder if she knows them.

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You've got that right. It's the old "she stoops to conquer" and "gentle persuasion" and "by your quiet humility your husband may be won over."

That sentence should have a submission-survivor ptsd trigger warning, lol... :angry-banghead:

Never a thought to a woman speaking her mind directly. That would be "aggressive." A man, OTOH, speaking his mind is "take-charge," oo goody goody!

Gosh yes, that dumb double standard. Like poor Teri Maxwell praying that God would remind Steve to get the pizza instead of picking up the phone and just simply reminding him. Fragile, fragile men.

But men HATE that manipulative behavior in women. Directness works every time. It's just the way guys think. Fascinating Womanhood types just get themselves worked up doing mental gymnastics on how to guide the family and make it seem like his idea, or trying to figure out his intention without just flat out asking, while their hubbies are sitting beside them thinking about a sandwich. :lol:

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Interesting. I know back when Jennie Chancey and the Illinois Oiler published Passionate Housewives Desperate for God, they were in the midst of a mini-surge of "biblical womanhood" websites, books and articles. I'm starting to wonder if we're coming back around to a renewed anti-feminist push again. There are definitely writers in the religious arena for it, but Phyllis Schlafly is quite elderly, and I'm not sure there is someone in the right-of-center mainstream to take the place that she did. Plus, the culture has changed quite a bit.

I hadn't seen this book, but I did see where Crossway is publishing (also in May) a biblical womanhood book called The Accidental Feminist, and I know Lies Women Believe is also getting a new push in bookstores and I'm suddenly seeing it featured at various churches all at once in my area (which pretty much screams "marketing push" to me).

I Googled the author to get more information about her, and the book is available on Amazon if anyone is interested. As noted in an previous comment, Courtney Reissig is the assistant editor for a blog hosted by the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. :disgust: So her life's purpose is to be a helpmate to her husband and joyfully submit to him in all things. So please explain to me why she is not calling herself Mrs. Daniel Reissig as a sign of that submission to her headship? :whistle:

This whole "I'm going to talk/write about how women are sinful idiots, and how patriarchy is so awesome for women and children" as a career path just annoys the hell out of me. :angry-banghead:

Edited to correct her professional title

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See, regarding Christianity, I'd say that powerful submission is a thing - but it has nothing to do with gender or marriage. Jesus in the Gospels seems to embody something you could call powerful submission, but all Christians are called to try to live up to that, regardless of gender. It's about defeating power (in the imperial/oppressive sense) via truth and peace rather than violence. You can't dismantle the master's house using the master's tools, to quote Audre Lorde. So definitely nothing to do with actually distinctly Greek ideas about gender that these idiots have tacked onto the Bible.

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"powerfully submissive"

Doesn't work. Being submissive means not having power unless you're in a BDSM relationship where the sub has the power to end things immediately and overrule a Dom. But that's not what they mean.

I suspect, though these women would never admit it, that this is precisely what would happen if their husbands adopted a position with which they strongly disagreed: They'd dust off the story of Abigail and Nabal and tell their husbands that, no, they will not be party to something they so strongly oppose.

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See, regarding Christianity, I'd say that powerful submission is a thing - but it has nothing to do with gender or marriage. Jesus in the Gospels seems to embody something you could call powerful submission, but all Christians are called to try to live up to that, regardless of gender. It's about defeating power (in the imperial/oppressive sense) via truth and peace rather than violence. You can't dismantle the master's house using the master's tools, to quote Audre Lorde. So definitely nothing to do with actually distinctly Greek ideas about gender that these idiots have tacked onto the Bible.

I agree: "Powerfully submissive" sounds as an oxymoron, but it's not - at least not within the Christian narrative. Jesus' power came in part from his willingness to submit his all - despite begging that the cup be passed to someone else - to the will of that which created the world; to allow himself to be humiliated and tortured and eventually killed - I suspect whether he'd rise again is immaterial at a moment when someone is beating the shit out of you - because you believe this act will help to preserve the souls of people many of whom hate you.

A lot of people admire Jesus for forgiving his enemies, and for laying down his life for his friends. Within the demands of submission, the individual still has freedom of choice in whether or not he or she will forgive those who placed her in such an unenviable position; freedom to treat others as she'd like to be treated. A person can have stripped from them everything that makes them appear to be human, in fact, and yet still make humane decisions that defy "common wisdom."

There is power in that; power to change the lives of those who see it.

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Interesting. I know back when Jennie Chancey and the Illinois Oiler published Passionate Housewives Desperate for God, they were in the midst of a mini-surge of "biblical womanhood" websites, books and articles. I'm starting to wonder if we're coming back around to a renewed anti-feminist push again. There are definitely writers in the religious arena for it, but Phyllis Schlafly is quite elderly, and I'm not sure there is someone in the right-of-center mainstream to take the place that she did. Plus, the culture has changed quite a bit.

I hadn't seen this book, but I did see where Crossway is publishing (also in May) a biblical womanhood book called The Accidental Feminist, and I know Lies Women Believe is also getting a new push in bookstores and I'm suddenly seeing it featured at various churches all at once in my area (which pretty much screams "marketing push" to me).

Can I just say - I love love love the nickname "Illinois Oiler." Thank you for this badly-needed laugh!!

:lol: :worship:

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