When You're Only Allowed to Express Joy

[roddma]

. I haven't read the whole series yet, but it is spot on about 'keeping happy and smiling'. . I feel bad for kids raised this way.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpres ... part-nine/

[EmainMacha]

Thank you for the link. I read it all and it is so upsetting and rage-inducing. It worries me sometimes when the Upcoming Babies link is updated to think a new child is being born into the world to be 'trained' rather than nutured- perhaps not to the extremes in this lady's story but still with the overarching message of instant obedience no matter what. Hopefully the younger generation are less slap-happy but the author herself says her older sister has used similar techniques with her children- cos appearing obedient and Godly is all that matters apparently.

[mollysmom]

This is how I was raised & let me say, it backfired. I had to suppress my feelings (well....the "bad" ones anyway) and as soon as I married and got out on my own I had (still have ) major emotional issues. I've seen a psychiatrist in the past, I'm on medication, and see a counselor every week. Yeah....screwed me up bad.

[fundiefan]

So, teaching children that emotions are something to be ashamed of is the godly thing to do? Making them feel shame over anything other than happiness is what god wants? Guilting them into not trusting themselves because their emotions are always 'wrong' is the way to raise perfect little Christians.

They're not raising godly Christians, they're raising shame filled, emotionally stunted, insecure beings who are too scared to even think much less function.

[louisa05]

Sadly, this is not limited to fundies.

I was subbing in preK one day --in a public school--and in the last hour of the day the kids were getting tired and a bit cranky. That was to be expected as they were between 3.5 and 5 and preK runs from 9 to 1:30 p.m. with no rest time. It was the response of the teacher aides (who were basically running the day in the teacher's absence--I was just there to be the certified person legally required) that disturbed me.

They asked the kids what Mrs. Regular Teacher does when they are acting like that. So the kids got in a circle and the aides recited a rhyme about putting away bad feelings and smiling with them and they were not allowed to leave the circle and go back to what they were doing until everyone plastered on a smile.

And then there is all the "positive thinking" motivational crap that has invaded business and most schools. At the last school I taught at, the principal got obsessed with a positive thinking guru who was brought in to do workshops with staff and students that emphasized never acknowledging a problem or frustration (if you did, you "gave it power") and always putting on a happy face no matter what. She told the staff that even grief is just people choosing to focus on the negative and if we just make a decision to choose the positive, we will never have to grieve over anything. I think many of us get pulled into that thinking on a lower level without realizing that it also forces people to deny real emotions.

[latraviata]

Sadly, this is not limited to fundies.

I was subbing in preK one day --in a public school--and in the last hour of the day the kids were getting tired and a bit cranky. That was to be expected as they were between 3.5 and 5 and preK runs from 9 to 1:30 p.m. with no rest time. It was the response of the teacher aides (who were basically running the day in the teacher's absence--I was just there to be the certified person legally required) that disturbed me.

They asked the kids what Mrs. Regular Teacher does when they are acting like that. So the kids got in a circle and the aides recited a rhyme about putting away bad feelings and smiling with them and they were not allowed to leave the circle and go back to what they were doing until everyone plastered on a smile.

And then there is all the "positive thinking" motivational crap that has invaded business and most schools. At the last school I taught at, the principal got obsessed with a positive thinking guru who was brought in to do workshops with staff and students that emphasized never acknowledging a problem or frustration (if you did, you "gave it power") and always putting on a happy face no matter what. She told the staff that even grief is just people choosing to focus on the negative and if we just make a decision to choose the positive, we will never have to grieve over anything. I think many of us get pulled into that thinking on a lower level without realizing that it also forces people to deny real emotions.

Exactly, I had a very stiff upperlip upbringing, same effect.

[Marian the Librarian]

Sadly, this is not limited to fundies.

I was subbing in preK one day --in a public school--and in the last hour of the day the kids were getting tired and a bit cranky. That was to be expected as they were between 3.5 and 5 and preK runs from 9 to 1:30 p.m. with no rest time. It was the response of the teacher aides (who were basically running the day in the teacher's absence--I was just there to be the certified person legally required) that disturbed me.

They asked the kids what Mrs. Regular Teacher does when they are acting like that. So the kids got in a circle and the aides recited a rhyme about putting away bad feelings and smiling with them and they were not allowed to leave the circle and go back to what they were doing until everyone plastered on a smile.

And then there is all the "positive thinking" motivational crap that has invaded business and most schools. At the last school I taught at, the principal got obsessed with a positive thinking guru who was brought in to do workshops with staff and students that emphasized never acknowledging a problem or frustration (if you did, you "gave it power") and always putting on a happy face no matter what. She told the staff that even grief is just people choosing to focus on the negative and if we just make a decision to choose the positive, we will never have to grieve over anything. I think many of us get pulled into that thinking on a lower level without realizing that it also forces people to deny real emotions.

THANK you! I was coming here to say the exact same thing. The organization I work for is pushing this forced happy-happy-joy-joy on the job, and it makes me want to grind the enamel off my teeth. The "Oh, let's just choose to be chipper and chirpy and happy, and then these real problems will just magically blow away like fairy dust" business trend can't end soon enough, IMNSHO.

[DGayle]

Sadly, this is not limited to fundies.

I was subbing in preK one day --in a public school--and in the last hour of the day the kids were getting tired and a bit cranky. That was to be expected as they were between 3.5 and 5 and preK runs from 9 to 1:30 p.m. with no rest time. It was the response of the teacher aides (who were basically running the day in the teacher's absence--I was just there to be the certified person legally required) that disturbed me.

They asked the kids what Mrs. Regular Teacher does when they are acting like that. So the kids got in a circle and the aides recited a rhyme about putting away bad feelings and smiling with them and they were not allowed to leave the circle and go back to what they were doing until everyone plastered on a smile.

And then there is all the "positive thinking" motivational crap that has invaded business and most schools. At the last school I taught at, the principal got obsessed with a positive thinking guru who was brought in to do workshops with staff and students that emphasized never acknowledging a problem or frustration (if you did, you "gave it power") and always putting on a happy face no matter what. She told the staff that even grief is just people choosing to focus on the negative and if we just make a decision to choose the positive, we will never have to grieve over anything. I think many of us get pulled into that thinking on a lower level without realizing that it also forces people to deny real emotions.

If that teacher was the teacher of my kids, hell would break loose. There's a difference between sometimes you need to try smiling (if I'm having a rough day and want to yell, then I need to buck the fuck up and smile for the sake of my kids, so I don't yell at them because of my bad mood), and telling kids that emotions that aren't joy are bad.

And positive thinking also has its place, but those gurus take it to an extreme. Just went bankrupt and lost the house? BLISSJOYHAPPINESSORGASM! YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MORTGAGE PAYMENTS! What's that? You have no place to sleep? IT'S OPPORTUNITY, MOTHER-FUCKER! SMILE! GASM!

[roddma]

She's also spot on about the Duggars. People think 'oh they are so happy'. I would think Fundie royalty like the Duggars have it worse. I read they do scenes over until theyy get th right reaction from the kids.

[GeoBQn]

It makes me think of one of my favorite Simpsons scenes. In the season 1 episode "Moaning Lisa," Lisa is feeling depressed and she doesn't know why. Marge decides to give her the advice that she got from her own mother.

Marge: Lisa, I want you to smile today.

Lisa: But I don't feel like smiling.

Marge: It doesn't matter how you feel inside. It's what shows up on the surface that counts. Now I want you to take your bad feelings and push them down, all the way down, past your knees, until you're almost walking on them And then you'll fit in! And you'll be invited to parties, and boys will like you--and happiness will follow.

Marge is then horrified to see Lisa becoming a pushover and letting people treat her badly. She pulls Lisa back into the car.

Marge: Lisa, I take it all back! If you want to be sad, honey, BE SAD! We'll ride it out with you. And when you are through being sad, we'll still be here. From now on, I'll do the smiling for both of us.

Lisa: (smiles) Ok mom.

Marge: Lisa, I said you could stop smiling.

Lisa: I FEEL like smiling.

[Jana814]

She's also spot on about the Duggars. People think 'oh they are so happy'. I would think Fundie royalty like the Duggars have it worse.

Agree!

[DaffyDill]

This happy, happy joy, joy always showing happiness reminds me of a post someone made in the thread about Jill Rodrigues' sister. Jill was filming her sister, who recently broke her neck severely in a car accident, and some of her immediate family. When the camera showed the face of one of Jill's children at the bedside of the severely injured sister, the child broke into a smile once it realised the camera was there. Automatically. Anyone who knows the Rodrigues family, and probably many of our pet fundies, know those smiles. The ones where the mouth curves upward, the person attempts to look happy, but that smile never reaches their eyes. The forced smile. This happy, happy, joy, joy look they are told to give, even when they don't feel it. Just so sad.

[Coco]

Wow, this is a good topic. It's so difficult and confusing trying to raise my kids and walk them through dealing with frustration, when as a child i was raised that negative things were most of the time beaten out or denied. Questions like, what age do you begin to reason? What age do you simply distract? And acknowledging their feelings as valid, but then talking the kids through all the way back from the angry emotional outbursts to giving respect where respect is due and apologizing for the right reasons - not fear of punishment but a place of empathy that they hurt their playmate and are sorry.... or should consider others' feelings as well as their own, including grown-ups. And this happens over every toy battle, every tired delayed naptime, every before-meal hungry crankiness. it's exhausting to know how to accomplish it, coming from a place of not having those tools. Plus dealing with advice from my parents like just tan their hide. :doh: no

Thank you, Roddma, for the link to H.A. It's an education for me, not really knowing how to navigate these paths. I feel like i need to read everything there.

ETA it does work, peaceful parenting and not forcing kids to deny their true feelings. It's awesome to see my daughter have a clear look in her eyes that i understand her and we're on the same side even if she's struggling. That stupid battle of wills my parents engaged in and making us obey out of fear of getting whopped, that just wasn't good for relationships of love and trust. Parents miss out on so much when they make it a battle. Shaming kids into pretending to be happy vs. giving them the tools to feel understood and truly happy.

[roddma]

If you study some Duggar photos carefully, it looks as if they are trying to smile in many of them. As said above, the smile doesnt reach the eyes and looks fake.

[nomoxian]

She's also spot on about the Duggars. People think 'oh they are so happy'. I would think Fundie royalty like the Duggars have it worse. I read they do scenes over until theyy get th right reaction from the kids.

One positive thing about that is the kids are learning how it's all fake. In an average household a kid would just be sent to their room or given a punishment, but in the Duggar home they re-do the activity or conversation in a "positive" way, teaching them that you can do things and show feelings in a way that isn't genuine in a way that's more overt than being sent to the prayer closet until they decide to "behave".

[2xx1xy1JD]

Louisa that is a shorty thing for an "expert" to say about grief. One thing I learned from my miscarriage drama is that you can't really push grief down forever and it needs to come out one way or another. I remember getting a back ache that just wouldn't go away after the third one, and it didn't stop until we finally admitted that no, I wasn't fine, and stopped pretending that I wasn't grieving. I so see how many fundies end up with fibromyalgia?

[Walking Cat Bed]

If you study some Duggar photos carefully, it looks as if they are trying to smile in many of them. As said above, the smile doesnt reach the eyes and looks fake.

The Duggar kids can fake-smile well, though. If you don't know to look at the whole face, especially the eyes, the Duggar kids look happy.

The Rodrigues kids look terrified when they "smile". You get all the teeth but no emotion.

When I've been in the worst swings of depression, I smile like the Rodrigues kids -- all teeth. I can actually figure out when I need to adjust my meds or make a therapy appointment when I see pictures taken by other people.

[ADoyle90815]

She's also spot on about the Duggars. People think 'oh they are so happy'. I would think Fundie royalty like the Duggars have it worse. I read they do scenes over until theyy get th right reaction from the kids.

That's true, and one of the reasons the myth about Josiah's arm twisting because he wasn't excited enough about J'chelle's last pregnancy went viral.

I agree that this doesn't just apply to fundies, as in my dad's Catholic family, you weren't allowed to show any negative emotion, even when it would seem appropriate such as at a funeral.

[EmainMacha]

Louisa05 - I would love to have that 'expert' visit the hospice I work at. My colleagues and I would destroy them!

When my father died I was crying semi-hysterically and a family member told me to stop, which I did immediately as I didn't want to upset anyone (thank you upbringing that told me to always put myself last). I credit that, in part, with why my grief cycle ended up stuck in repeat for four years until I had CBT.

[louisa05]

Louisa05 - I would love to have that 'expert' visit the hospice I work at. My colleagues and I would destroy them!

When my father died I was crying semi-hysterically and a family member told me to stop, which I did immediately as I didn't want to upset anyone (thank you upbringing that told me to always put myself last). I credit that, in part, with why my grief cycle ended up stuck in repeat for four years until I had CBT.

I'm not sure I'd call her an expert. She is a crackpot who stole bits and pieces from other sources and is very good at marketing.

At the beginning of the workshop she did with the staff, which was our first introduction to her, she told us all about how she had been in an abusive marriage and left. At a women's shelter, she had the great revelation that her husband abused her because of her own negative thoughts and behaviors in regard to him. From there, she outlined her entire philosophy of positive thinking and how it gets you everything you want. I remember sitting there wondering why a room full of educated adults seemed to be falling for it.

[socalrules]

I feel so said for these kids. Most of us have crappy days at work, at home, etc. We may be forced to suck it up and smile because it might be inappropriate at that time to express how we really feel, i.e. not telling off an asshole ex-boss I used to have. The difference is that most of us can go home and complaint to friends and family. These fundie kids are stuck because family is their only world and those are the people forcing them to smile.

I hate that positive thinking crap. If it worked, I would be a lottery millionaire, living in a Malibu beach house and have a beach body without having to work out.

[Jana814]

If you study some Duggar photos carefully, it looks as if they are trying to smile in many of them. As said above, the smile doesnt reach the eyes and looks fake.

Agree!

[Sister Mozz]

I was raised this way, too. My parents never outright said, "You can only express joy," but I would be corrected for showing disappointment, curiosity, fear, and even not using the tone of voice they wanted. My dad still tries to correct my tone of voice, and I'm in my 30s and only see him a few times a year. I was never allowed to have a bad day or taught how to process an overload of emotions.

Thankfully eventually I learned that bad days are okay, emotions don't make me bad, and that there are people out there who love me unconditionally. I don't have to earn it like I did with my parents - which isn't even love, by the way. I know I'm fortunate I did so without professional counseling, although I am not opposed to that and may still go at some point, but I feel emotionally healthy now and able to understand why I feel sadness, frustration, or any variety of emotions.

By the way, in our house the happy-happy-joy-joy was only for the kids. My parents fight with each other, yell at the kids, and one of them in particular is nasty in the way they yell at business people on the phone or write long, scathing e-mails when they are not pleased about something. It's weird. And very, very unpleasant. I basically try to keep my life as separated from theirs as possible so I need not hear their dark commentary on a life that is wonderful and fulfilling to me.