Noah's Ark in Kentucky

[doggie]

They can't prove it but to people who already think it is. like two animals could bring back the whole species. Like you could even fit two of each of the birds in the world on the ark. like you could carry the food or that so few people could take care of all those animals. But logic is never involved in such things. I just hope the government does not fund it.

Then again how can they make it authentic when there are so few details?

The sad part is all of the money they have to spend to prove to themselves their beliefs are real. how pathetic is that?

HEBRON, Ky. (AP) - Tucked away in a nondescript office park in northern Kentucky, Noah's followers are rebuilding his ark. The biblical wooden ship built to weather a worldwide flood was 500 feet long and about 80 feet high, according to Answers in Genesis, a Christian ministry devoted to a literal telling of the Old Testament.

This modern ark, to be nestled on a plot of 800 acres of rolling Kentucky farmland, isn't designed to rescue the world's creatures from a coming deluge. It's to tell the world that the Bible's legendary flood story was not a fable, but a part of human history.

"The message here is, God's word is true," said Mike Zovath, project manager of the ark. "There's a lot of doubt: 'Could Noah have built a boat this big, could he have put all the animals on the boat?' Those are questions people all over the country ask."

The ark will be the centerpiece of a proposed $155 million religious theme park, called the Ark Encounter, and will include other biblical icons like the Tower of Babel and an old world-style village.

It's an expansion of the ministry's first major public attraction, the controversial Creation Museum. It opened in 2007 and attracted worldwide attention for presenting stories from the Bible as historical fact, challenging evolution and asserting that the earth was created about 6,000 years ago.

"The ark is really a different approach" than the museum, Zovath said. "It's really not about creation-evolution, it's about the authority of the Bible starting with the ark account in Genesis."

Inside the ark's headquarters in Hebron, a small team of artists and designers are working on the visuals at the new park, but once the project begins early next year, there will be hundreds at the creation, including a team of Amish builders from Indiana who will erect the giant ark. Many of the same people who helped design the museum are on board for the ark project, including Patrick Marsh, who helped build some of the attractions at Universal Studios in Florida.

Zovath said the ark will have old-world details, like wooden pegs instead of nails, straight-sawed timbers and plenty of animals - some alive, some robotic like The Creation Museum's dinosaurs. He said it has not yet been determined how many live animals will be in the boat during visiting hours, but the majority will be stuffed or animatronic. At their count, Noah had anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 on board.

There are a handful of replica arks around the world, but Zovath said this one will be authentic inside and out.

"When you get to walk through the boat and see how big this thing really was, and how many cages were there, and how much room there was for food and water ... our hope is people start seeing that this is plausible, that the account could be believed," Zovath said.

A longtime critic of the Answers in Genesis ministry argues the attraction will bring in converts to creationism by challenging scientific findings about the world's history.

"Many think that since creationism is so irrational and so unscientific that nobody really could believe it, but that's not so," said Edwin Kagin, a lawyer in northern Kentucky who is president of a nationwide atheist group. The new park will be "so slick and so well done, you can get people to believe in anything. Creationism, when you're ready to believe anything."

The Ark Encounter won't be the nation's first theme park inspired by the Bible, or the first with Noah's big boat. A park in tourism-rich Orlando, Fla., features a portrayal of the crucifixion by actors six days a week, along with Jesus' resurrection and gospel concerts. The Holy Land Experience opened in 2001, but the nonprofit park struggled with debt before it was taken over by Trinity Broadcasting Network in 2007.

Other replicas of Noah's famous ship have been built around the world.

A huge fiberglass ark sits at the center of a Hong Kong Noah's Ark attraction, and another floating ark in the Netherlands is being built by a Dutch man, who wants to sail it to London for the 2012 Olympic games. Closer to home, a church in Frostburg, Md., is building a to-scale ark supported by a steel frame.

But attractions with religious themes can be a risky venture, according to an amusement park expert.

"In some ways it's a two-edged sword: If you go for the religious market, you already have something that is somewhat unique in the market, and that particular market is known to be willing to make a special effort, to drive an extra distance, to get the church groups to go out and make a special outing," said John Gerner, managing director of Leisure Business Advisors of Richmond, Va.

"The problem with that approach is you always risk bordering on being disrespectful if not sacrilegious," Gerner said. "There is a line as far as what you can do in this approach."

Some in the state hope it will be a major attraction. A feasibility study on the Ark Encounter declared that the park would attract 1.6 million visitors in its first year, Zovath said. The smaller Creation Museum has attracted well over a million people since it opened four years ago.

State officials are banking on the park's success and the 900 jobs it is expected to create, by making the project eligible for more than $40 million in sales tax rebates if the Ark Encounter hits its attendance marks.

Tying state incentives to a religious theme park has also attracted some criticism, though notably less than The Creation Museum, which received no state support. That facility was built on private donations.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a Washington-based group, has said the park would run afoul of constitutional law.

"Noah didn't get government help when he built the first ark, and the fundamentalist ministry behind the Kentucky replica shouldn't either," the group said in a statement. But so far they have taken no legal action.

Kagin said challenging the project in court would likely be a losing battle because of the way the tax incentives are structured.

"The legislation is so drafted that they will give this incentive to any organization that is going to increase tourism in Kentucky," Kagin said. "And there's no question whatsoever that this group will."

Zovath said construction on the ark is expected to begin in the spring.

___

Online:

Ark Encounter: http://arkencounter.com/

Answers in Genesis:http://www.answersingenesis.org/

[BlackHawk]

Dear KY,

See why I am leaving you the minute I can? Yes, we are now known for the Creation Museum... and NOW the fucking Ark park...

No love,

Me

That said, I cannot stand this stupid shit. We have a high unemployment rate because Eastern KY coal mines are being shut down, the state sucks with money, and overall KY does not have a great public education system. But, instead of using tax incentives for groups that are going to come in and help educate our young people, instead of using these incentives for groups to go in to eastern KY and help the unemployment market.. we are giving it to Biblical millionaires who are building a mythical fucking boat. Seriously, this makes me sad for this state.

[takers401]

Since I'm curious. How do fundies explain how all the animals fit into the ark? Do they say there were less animals at that time? That the majority were tiny (mosquitos, ants, etc)? Or that somehow the ark was similar to Mary Poppins' bag and there was just always a bunch of room?

[shesinsane]

Meh. Maryland's already got an ark being built. It doesn't have an amusement park, but we started our ark first.

godsark.org/

[doggie]

Since I'm curious. How do fundies explain how all the animals fit into the ark? Do they say there were less animals at that time? That the majority were tiny (mosquitos, ants, etc)? Or that somehow the ark was similar to Mary Poppins' bag and there was just always a bunch of room?

the sad part is they don't have to they just believe it happened.

[emeraldskull]

Since I'm curious. How do fundies explain how all the animals fit into the ark? Do they say there were less animals at that time? That the majority were tiny (mosquitos, ants, etc)? Or that somehow the ark was similar to Mary Poppins' bag and there was just always a bunch of room?

Well, it was a very big boat. Also, there weren't all the variations in the species we have today. There would have been just 2 dogs, 2 horses, 2 elephants, etc, not terriers, wolves, hounds, boxers, poodles... And they most likely were baby animals, not full grown.

[VodouDoll]

And I think I once heard Ken Ham say that all the animals immediately went into hibernation, so it was basically just piles and piles of baby animals, sound asleep, not needing to move around or eat or anything.

[Bozoette]

emeraldskull said:

Well, it was a very big boat. Also, there weren't all the variations in the species we have today. There would have been just 2 dogs, 2 horses, 2 elephants, etc, not terriers, wolves, hounds, boxers, poodles... And they most likely were baby animals, not full grown.

And then you can say... so how did the variations happen? To paraphrase The Church Lady: Could it be... EVOLUTION???

[emmiedahl]

What exactly is this going to prove, except that any idiot can build a big boat?

I believe that there was probably an ark of some sort, and that it held pairs of the animals common to that area. Like, srsly, Noah did not have time to go hunt down a North American spotted owl or a Siberian tiger. You have to remember who wrote this: a group of sheepherders in a barely populated area of the Middle East. What they consider to be a flood that covered the Earth might have covered only a few square miles, and what they consider every animal on Earth included just the ones that they knew about.

[keen23]

Well, I don't believe in the Ark, or anything like that. The Flood Myth is common across many cultures. It's an easy way to separate the "bad" past from the "better" current times with a morality story. That is - those people back then were bad, so our sky father did something about it and flooded the earth except for the very special people from whom we are descended and now we are rewarded with being allowed to live on as "the special people who were saved."

But, hello, how did Kangaroos and Llamas get onto this so-called Noah's Ark? They weren't even known species.

[doggie]

Like I said this is a great big idol to prove to themselves what the bible says is true. So much money to verify your faith.

[emmiedahl]

I guess I am missing soemthing. I just don't get what it proves. Like, yeah, you can build a boat--one that never has to float on water at that. Is it proof that people can build boats? Most of us already believe that.

I was under the impression that there is some archaeological proof of a large flood at some point.

[slickcat79]

I love how their goal is to prove that the ark story happened totalleee for realz!! but everything they're doing to build it doesn't match the biblical account at all. There will be hundreds of people helping to build the ark, including an entire team of Amish builders who (presumably) have experience with old-style building. They anticipate having 900 people working there, which is slightly more than one old dude and his family. Most of the "animals" will be stuffed or animatronic, so you don't have to worry about feeding or cleaning up after them.

Of course, with $150 million and hundreds of people working for months, you can use modern technology to build a giant boat. But, to echo earlier sentiments, how is that supposed to prove that Noah could do the same?

[emeraldskull]

As a Christian who does believe in the Flood... I don't understand the purpose of this. :-P The money they are spending to build it could be used for so many more important things, such as actually helping people.

[wtfrenchtoast]

What about all the bugs and stuff?I know if I'd been on that ark, I would have probably stepped on an ant or swatted a mosquito or something. One misstep and an entire species is wiped out!

[Guest Anonymous]

emeraldskull said:

And then you can say... so how did the variations happen? To paraphrase The Church Lady: Could it be... EVOLUTION???

I was wondering this very thing the other day. I just adopted a lovely persian kitty, but he was bred to have an "extreme flat face" which is, literally, flat. His nose is pretty much smack dab between his eyeballs and they're so smooshed together that he has constant tearing because his tear ducts are practically smushed shut. It's tough for the poor guy to eat and drink. I think it's really cruel that they're bred this way.

Anyway, I was wondering one day while I was cleaning his goopy eyes how fundies explain the changes that occur between generations of animals which can be clearly seen in everyday life, if NOT by calling it, essentially, evolution? Those would be some big blinders to wear.

[slickcat79]

I was wondering this very thing the other day. I just adopted a lovely persian kitty, but he was bred to have an "extreme flat face" which is, literally, flat. His nose is pretty much smack dab between his eyeballs and they're so smooshed together that he has constant tearing because his tear ducts are practically smushed shut. It's tough for the poor guy to eat and drink. I think it's really cruel that they're bred this way.

Anyway, I was wondering one day while I was cleaning his goopy eyes how fundies explain the changes that occur between generations of animals which can be clearly seen in everyday life, if NOT by calling it, essentially, evolution? Those would be some big blinders to wear.

What I understand from reading descriptions from the Creation Museum is that Ken Hamm and his particular group of fundies do believe in evolution to a certain extent. Going off the biblical description of the size of Noah's ark, there's no possible way 2 of every single species would have fit. Even these guys building the new "ark" insist that there will be no more than 4000 species on it, when obviously millions exist in the world today. So their explanation is that Noah took, for example, a single cat "kind" on the ark, and after the flood it evolved into everything from a lion to a persian housecat. In 4000 years :doh:

Because apparently you can walk across the room (microevolution) but you can't walk across the street (so-called macroevolution). And they certainly don't belive in human evolution because the bible sez.There's also the issue that 2 of any animal cannot possibly repopulate an entire species, much less introduce enough DNA to differentiate into separate species, but that's a whole different set of mental gymnastics. It makes no logical sense.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

But, hello, how did Kangaroos and Llamas get onto this so-called Noah's Ark? They weren't even known species.

According to Conservapedia:

According to the origins theory model used by young earth creation scientists, modern kangaroos are the descendants of the two founding members of the modern kangaroo baramin that were taken aboard Noah's Ark prior to the Great Flood. It has not yet been determined by baraminologists whether kangaroos form a holobaramin with the wallaby, tree-kangaroo, wallaroo, pademelon and quokka, or if all these species are in fact apobaraminic or polybaraminic.

After the Flood, these kangaroos, bred from the Ark passengers, migrated to Australia. There is debate whether this migration happened over land[6] with lower sea levels during the post-flood ice age, or before the super-continent of Pangea broke apart.[7].

So there ya have it! Apparently some kinda proto-kangaroos lived in Israel. Or something.

I must admit that "Kangaroo" is the first item I looked up when I heard of Conservapedia. You should look that up in one window, open up "Kangaroo" in Wikipedia next to it, and make your own conclusions... :whistle: Better yet, then look up "baramin" on Wikipedia for extra reading. Pretty much says it all, and it's not kind...

[Kitty]

You know, I never thought about this until reading this thread, but it's impossible to be a creationist and take the story of Noah's Ark seriously at the same time. Proto-kangaroos in Israel, indeed...

[Kitty]

At the risk of seeming spammy, the reason there are so many different breeds of dogs, cats, and other domesticated animals is human interference. Humans picked out animals for specific traits and bred them. That's how you see dogs and cats with traits that couldn't have possibly helped them in the wild, or if the dogs and cats in question didn't have humans to care for them. That's right, HUMANS CAUSED EVOLUTION. God didn't make , humans did!

[Guest Anonymous]

It sounds like they're creating a lot of convoluted explanations and questionable logic to... what? What exactly is the point of all this denial again? Do they really hate the thought of descending from apes that much?

Honestly, they're throwing around a lot more shit than any monkey I've ever seen.

[doggie]

we are talking species not breed. all of thse were on the ark and somehow got distributed around the world?

Scientists have described over 1.7 million of the world's species of animals, plants and algae, as of 2010.

The list below gives the number of species known in the world for each major category of animals and plants.

The numbers most accurately represent all living species of mammals, birds and coniferous plants. Only for those groups have scientists almost completely identified all the world's species.

Biologists have yet to describe many species of plants, invertebrate animals and lichens. So the number of these species known to science increases substantially every year.

The greatest species diversity exists among insects, which account for one million of the earth's species known to science. Mammals make up one of the smallest groups, with just 5,490 members.

Altogether the earth's oceans, lakes, continents and islands support over 62,000 identified species of vertebrate animals and 320,000 species of plants.

How many species are known to currently exist in the world. Category Species Totals

Vertebrate Animals

Mammals 5,490

Birds 9,998

Reptiles 9,084

Amphibians 6,433

Fishes 31,300

Total Vertebrates 62,305

Invertebrate Animals

Insects 1,000,000

Spiders and scorpions 102,248

Molluscs 85,000

Crustaceans 47,000

Corals 2,175

Others 68,827

Total Invertebrates 1,305,250

Plants

Flowering plants (angiosperms) 281,821

Conifers (gymnosperms) 1,021

Ferns and horsetails 12,000

Mosses 16,236

Red and green algae 10,134

Total Plants 321,212

Others

Lichens 17,000

Mushrooms 31,496

Brown algae 3,067

Total Others 51,563

TOTAL SPECIES 1,740,330

[Lainey]

Doggie, this is interesting, so thank you for posting about it.

Now that said, I can't parse your post title or the first sentence or two of your OP. Say what? :?

Anyway, I'd like a solid definition of "kinds" from any Noah's Ark believers we've got available. Anyone? :whistle: Also, for YEC's (I don't know if there are any on FJ or not), you do know that the animal "kinds" would have had to rapidly (and I mean RAPIDLY!!!) evolve into all the different species we see today, don't you?

Is this "Ark" going to be made with tar and pitch like the "supposed" original, or is it going to use modern building materials? Did they have nails back in the day?

And finally, isn't it the case that a massive boat like that made out of wood would...sink?

[doggie]

species is ll I would think but who really knows? back then they were so limited on knowledge that they may have thought all animals could fit on a small boat. we could not even begin to make a ship large enough for the job. we know how large the ark was. all we need to discredit it is put one of today super tankers beside it and show how few animals could really fit on it.

[Stickers]

The real question about the Ark is, what did they do with all the POOP? Even if you're being REALLY, REALLY nice and say there was only a few hundreds animals on it, that's still a lot POOP to being dealing with every day. Times that by 40 days and... yeah. I wonder if they'll have a part of the park that deals with THAT. Some kind of ride maybe?