Have a stillbirth, be accused of murder.

[Lillybee]

I am afraid that this is the way we may be going.

http://www.alternet.org/gender/terrifyi ... she-was-16

[SPHASH]

So basically my mother and great grandmother are murderers.

[gustava]

She's black, took drugs, and lives in Mississippi. Poor, black, and female in one of the most racist states in the country.

Bet it wouldn't happen to the white, wealthy, alcoholic wife of a Mississippi judge.

[16strong]

This is horrible. Mississippi sucks. How stressful would it be to lose your baby AND be accused of murder?

I'm not advocating taking drugs or drinking during pregnancy here, but it is worth noting that this mother is/was very young. Young people (particularly from poorer regions) not only tend to be less educated about the effects of substance abuse on fetal development, but also tend to lack good judgment and discretion due to age/maturity level. Doesn't mean she should be tried or hanged for it. She is certainly not the first or last woman to abuse during pregnancy, and it does not predict what kind of mother she would/will be. Plenty of young mothers grow up to become responsible individuals despite rocky starts.

[Lillybee]

I think that baby died in utero because the goddamm cord was wrapped around its neck. Unless taking drugs causes cord accidents, there should be no case against this woman.

[gustava]

I think that baby died in utero because the goddamm cord was wrapped around its neck. Unless taking drugs causes cord accidents, there should be no case against this woman.

AGREE, but....black, poor, female, Mississippi.....

[ADoyle90815]

AGREE, but....black, poor, female, Mississippi.....

This. If a white,wealthy, alcoholic wife of a judge in Mississippi had a stillbirth due to the cord being wrapped around its neck, nothing would happen.

[Toothfairy]

She's black, took drugs, and lives in Mississippi. Poor, black, and female in one of the most racist states in the country.

Bet it wouldn't happen to the white, wealthy, alcoholic wife of a Mississippi judge.

Sadly it's true

[Mama Mia]

This is horrible. Mississippi sucks. How stressful would it be to lose your baby AND be accused of murder?

I'm not advocating taking drugs or drinking during pregnancy here, but it is worth noting that this mother is/was very young. Young people (particularly from poorer regions) not only tend to be less educated about the effects of substance abuse on fetal development, but also tend to lack good judgment and discretion due to age/maturity level. Doesn't mean she should be tried or hanged for it. She is certainly not the first or last woman to abuse during pregnancy, and it does not predict what kind of mother she would/will be. Plenty of young mothers grow up to become responsible individuals despite rocky starts.

Not to mention that up until around 30 (?) years ago Doctors didn't even generally tell mothers not to drink or smoke at all during pregnancy, and 50 years ago they would even prescribe "diet pills" - also known as amphetamines, to pregnant women to help them keep their figure. Look at old episodes of t.v. shows and movies from the 50's and you'll see Lucy smoking a cigarette and drinking a martini while pregnant. Once upon a time cocaine was readily available as a legal pick-me-up. Obviously not a good plan to abuse substances during pregnancy, but it also isn't like all, or even most, infants will have serious consequences from exposure during pregnancy.

[latraviata]

Not to mention that up until around 30 (?) years ago Doctors didn't even generally tell mothers not to drink or smoke at all during pregnancy, and 50 years ago they would even prescribe "diet pills" - also known as amphetamines, to pregnant women to help them keep their figure. Look at old episodes of t.v. shows and movies from the 50's and you'll see Lucy smoking a cigarette and drinking a martini while pregnant. Once upon a time cocaine was readily available as a legal pick-me-up. Obviously not a good plan to abuse substances during pregnancy, but it also isn't like all, or even most, infants will have serious consequences from exposure during pregnancy.

Exactly!

Generations of French should be dead, wine, cheese, cigarettes, you name it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thi is one of the reasons that I so strongly oppose "fetal protection" laws.

I think I mentioned this before, but I saw a case where a child protection agency put the blame squarely on a mom with a history of drug use for the fact that she went into premature labor with twins, who died at birth, and used it as an excuse to call for fetal protection laws. The only problem was that there wasn't a shred of evidence to support that theory, such as actual drug tests. Carrying multiples is a risk factor for premature labor, mom was in jail, the jail refused to cooperate with the investigation, and mom claimed that they ignored her complaints of pain when labor first started and assumed she was just lazy and looking for special treatment. In other words....locking up a pregnant woman on drug charges not only failed to protect these fetuses, but actually caused their deaths.

[Jana814]

Sadly it's true

Have to agree!

[latraviata]

Thi is one of the reasons that I so strongly oppose "fetal protection" laws.

I think I mentioned this before, but I saw a case where a child protection agency put the blame squarely on a mom with a history of drug use for the fact that she went into premature labor with twins, who died at birth, and used it as an excuse to call for fetal protection laws. The only problem was that there wasn't a shred of evidence to support that theory, such as actual drug tests. Carrying multiples is a risk factor for premature labor, mom was in jail, the jail refused to cooperate with the investigation, and mom claimed that they ignored her complaints of pain when labor first started and assumed she was just lazy and looking for special treatment. In other words....locking up a pregnant woman on drug charges not only failed to protect these fetuses, but actually caused their deaths.

As old as mankind, blame the mothers!!

[docmom]

She's black, took drugs, and lives in Mississippi. Poor, black, and female in one of the most racist states in the country.

Bet it wouldn't happen to the white, wealthy, alcoholic wife of a Mississippi judge.

This sort of thing happens regularly in several South American countries which have absolue bans on abortion. Poor women who miscarry are jailed for murder. Wealthy women who miscarry are comforted. So sad to see it's happening here too.

BTW- wealthy white women aren't alcoholics, they just like a little recreational drink, right??

[RosyDaisy]

Welcome to life in the Deep South, y'all:roll:

[MalteseBaby]

This is a biased and slanted article written by a source which is not one I would ever consider as a reputable news source. Look at the name- " alternet.org."

[Coconut Flan]

Let's try the Washington Post then.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... estyle_pop

[itsnikki05]

Welcome to life in the Deep South, y'all:roll:

Ikr? (BTW- I live in Mississippi! Born and raised.)

But yeah, crap like this pisses me off. I'm fairly certain it's not just here though, and not all Mississippians are ignorant asshats. Just sayin!!

[ljohnson2006]

So crazy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This is a biased and slanted article written by a source which is not one I would ever consider as a reputable news source. Look at the name- " alternet.org."

Here's a link to the pdf of the actual legal brief filed by the state:

http://judicial.mc.edu/briefs/2010-IA-00819-SCTE.PDF

[Firiel]

Let's try the Washington Post then.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... estyle_pop

Thanks! I wasn't the one that pointed it out, but the other article's propaganda-esque rhetoric was a little much for me. It's a horrifying story that pretty much speaks for itself. It doesn't need to self-announce as "terrifying."

The WP article mentions that this is a disturbing Mississippi trend that doesn't end with fetuses. There have also been mothers whose infants have died of unknown causes (presumably SIDS in one case) and who have been tried/accused of murder based on shaky evidence. This issue certainly encompasses the danger of fetal protection laws, but it also sounds like the WP article is focusing a lot on the medical examiner, Steven Hayne, and his suspicious connection to the Mississippi DA. I think that's the REAL outrage in this story-- a corrupt medical examiner offering biased evidence to the prosecution and jailing innocent people. Especially mothers who are already grieving over a stillborn or infant deaths.

EDIT: Sorry, I hope this doesn't make me sound super conservative or something. I just have a personal aversion to very strong rhetoric, conservative or liberal. My opinion is that it turns off people who disagree by making them feel attacked and defensive and therefore functions mainly to make people who already agree feel better about themselves and their position. The article itself isn't bad in that regard, but that headline!

[MalteseBaby]

I agree with you, Firiel. The underlying problems are the ineptitude and bias of at least one ME and at least one DA. Probably more in the geographical area are following the trend to "protect the fetus" at the expense of a living and innocent woman. The trend is, of course, unconstitutional and a violation of human rights of the already born.

I, also, have a problem with sensationalized media, regardless of which side it is slanted towards.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Question for any American lawyers here:

I read over the legal brief filed by the state in response to the interlocutory motion by the defense to dismiss the charges.

The state makes the argument that the facts are not yet known, in response to the arguments from sources that include the American Colleges of Obstetricians and Gynecologist that cocaine does not cause stillbirths.

What does this mean? Are they just saying that there hasn't yet been a trial, so the experts for the state haven't yet testified, or are they saying that there wasn't any solid medical evidence presented to prosecutors to clearly show that the cocaine use caused the stillbirths before the charges were laid?

A cord around the neck is an obvious alternative cause of death. Even with a bad law on the books, this case should never have proceeded to this point. Insisting that you can't argue that cocaine doesn't cause stillbirth until the actual trial means that they have been putting this girl through torture for SEVEN YEARS, when she was a teen with not a lot of resources, because they perceive cocaine to be a Very Bad Thing and wrongly assumed that she must therefore be a very bad person and essentially guilty until proven innocent.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Found a Slate article on the case:http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/03/19/rennie_gibbs_case_mississippi_charges_black_teenager_with_murder_for_using.html

How is this not misconduct by the prosecution?

You have evidence that the cord was around the neck. That means that you have evidence that the stillbirth wasn't anyone's fault. At that point, you should be stopping the investigation and prosecution (even if you do believe that the law allows prosecution of women for causing stillbirths deliberately). Continuing beyond that point is just malicious. She was young, she was black, she was doing something that society has demonized, so she needs to be punished. Who cares that cocaine doesn't actually cause stillbirths, and that this prosecution makes about as much sense as accusing a teen who was into the occult as causing a stillbirth via witchcraft? You don't get to put a young girl through more hell for 7 YEARS when you don't have even the basic facts that would support a case.

[salex]

Law that didn't pass... so far in virginia. If

a woman in Virginia has a miscarriage without a doctor present, they must report it within 24 hours to the police or risk going to jail for a full year. At least, that’s what would have happened if a bill introduced by Virginia state Sen. Mark Obenshain ® had become law.

And yet, the Virginia Republican Party wants to make Obenshain into the state’s top prosecutor. This weekend, Virginia Republicans selected Obenshain as their nominee to replace tea party stalwart Ken Cuccinelli ® as the state’s attorney general.

Under Obenshain’s bill, which was introduced in 2009,

When a fetal death occurs without medical attendance upon the mother at or after the delivery or abortion, the mother or someone acting on her behalf shall, within 24 hours, report the fetal death, location of the remains, and identity of the mother to the local or state police or sheriff’s department of the city or county where the fetal death occurred. No one shall remove, destroy, or otherwise dispose of any remains without the express authorization of law-enforcement officials or the medical examiner. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Under Virginia law, a Class 1 misdemeanor carries a maximum sentence of “confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500,†so Obenshain’s bill could lead to a woman who decides to take a day to grieve the loss of a pregnancy she’d hoped to carry to term spending a year of her life in jail for that decision.

Even without Obenshain’s bill, Virginia law already treats many miscarriages as potential crimes. Under existing Virginia law, “[w]hen a fetal death occurs without medical attendance upon the mother at or after the delivery or abortion or when inquiry or investigation by a medical examiner is required, the medical examiner shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall complete and sign the medical certification portion of the fetal death report within twenty-four hours after being notified of a fetal death.†Obsenshain’s bill, however, would treat many women as if they were criminal suspects at the moment they are confronted with a deep personal tragedy — and imprison them if they would rather deal with that tragedy privately with their family than share the vulnerable moment after a miscarriage with law enforcement.

thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/20/2035411/virginia-gop-nominee-for-attorney-general-would-force-women-to-report-their-miscarriages-to-police/

And, currently, kansas is trying to put this into play.

A bill advancing in Kansas would mandate reporting for miscarriages at any stage in pregnancy, the first step along the path to criminalizing pregnant women’s bodies. Under an amendment attached to HB 2613 — which was originally intended to update the state’s procedure for issuing birth certificates for stillborn babies — doctors would be required to report all of their patients’ miscarriages to the state health department.