The VF community and theology?

[finleeport]

I read a lot about them, but I still can't distinguish them from other fundies other than they believe women should stay at home or children should be obedient. What else to they do in their community? Do they allow music? parties? holidays or secular holidays? what do they occasionally celebrate? What activities do they do?

They're theology is almost similar to Puritanism but not entirely, what branch of Christianity are they practicing?

Please excuse my ignorance, I grew up in a semi-fundie environment but I still don't understand what other fundamentalists believe in and why do they genuinely differ from others :?:

[demgirl]

To be honest, I've always struggled with this too. Gothard versus ATI -- what are the theological differences? Hell if I know, except Dougie AFAIK has never publicly come out against adoption. I know some of the people we follow are hardcore Calvanists, and that's different from ATI/IBLP ... I think.

[GenerationCedarchip]

If you search, I know there's another thread on the difference between ATI fundie and VF fundie.

I grew up in a section of fundie that is more akin to VF. They tend to be reformed in theology (conservative Presby denominations and other hardcore Calvinist leaning places). VF-ers also by and large tend to be, at least among the men, more educated and affluent that the ATI crowd. There are exceptions to this, obviously.

And just to muddy things up - as time has gone on, there has been some crossover of ideas. It's more ATI into reformed fundieland than the other way around, but I'm still seeing it when I go home and observe reformed fundies in the wild (as my cousin and I like to phrase it).

[finleeport]

Tell me again please what is ATI and IBLP and AFAIK?

[demgirl]

Okay, but knowing me, I'm probably going to screw it up.

ATI: Advanced Training Institute

IBLP: Institute in Basic Life Principles

AFAIK: As Far As I Know

[Deleted12]

Every time we talk about Doug Phillips,

<<<<

we're talking about Vision Forum.

In a nutshell, he's very fixated on the Biblical family. He believes that our culture has lost the ideas of what manhood and fatherhood, womanhood and motherhood, and youth and childhood are about. For example, he's the president and founder of the North American Man/Boy Titanic Society, which gets together once a year on the anniversary of the sinking. In this gathering, men and boys listen to Doug bloviate about the idea that men should lay down their lives for women and children. He does many historical tours from a supposedly Christian perspective, and leads men on trips to look for anacondas.

His company, Vision Forum, is full of products for "Adventurous Boyhood" and "Beautiful Girlhood." He also sells a lot of homeschool materials and books (such as those by the Botkins) to teach women how to be better helpmeets.

Go check out the kinds of things he sells; it's an education: http://www.visionforum.com/

(I didn't break the link 'cause somehow I think ol' Doug's onto us already, ya know?)

Aside from his business, he has a church, Boerne Christian Assembly. I don't know what all they preach there. Theology wise, he's a big supporter of family integrated church, which opposes Sunday schools on the grounds that fathers are supposed to be the theological heads of their households.

Here's the mission statement for Vision Forum Ministries:

Our Mission

Preserving Our Covenant with God through Biblical Patriarchy and Multi-Generational Faithfulness

Turning the Hearts of Fathers to Their Families

Proclaiming the Nobility and Glory of Motherhood

Reviving the Doctrine of “Women and Children Firstâ€

Embracing the Blessing of Children and the Sanctity of Human Life

Building a Culture of Virtuous Boyhood and Girlhood

Reinforcing Godly Masculinity and Femininity

Understanding Family Culture as Religion Externalized

Teaching History as the Providence of God

Developing Biblical Worldview Through Presuppositional Thinking

Training Character by Hebrew Discipleship and Home Education

Communicating the Applicability of the Law of God

Addressing the Ethical Issues of the 21st Century

Preparing Men to Stand in the Gates

Encouraging Unity Between Church and Home

[apple1]

Okay, but knowing me, I'm probably going to screw it up.

ATI: Advanced Training Institute

IBLP: Institute in Basic Life Principles

AFAIK: As Far As I Know

And IBLP and ATI are Gothard programs.

[AnnoDomini]

My family were/are fairly fundamental Calvinists (I think--it's hard to compare since we didn't get out much and I don't know enough about the labels of Christianity--we just called ourselves Bible believers) and we used to get the Vision Forum catalog. I loved most of the boyhood catalog, and some of the girlhood, but even back then, I wasn't sure about some of their 'vision'. I wanted to ride in the covered wagon pulled by my brothers AND explore the woods with a cool tool belt.

[JennJenn]

What does "dominion oriented" mean? I have heard this term thrown around by Doug.

[ophelia]

Iam not sure, but I think it's all about that Christians should rule the world and on the way to that it's important that they take over more and more parts of the society. Thats why they make they own movies, music, etc. That is also the reason why it is so important for them to marry early and to make as much babies as possible to have a lot of little soldiers to fight for that goal! But I think there are people here that can explain that better!!

[Jencendiary]

'Dominion oriented' is a code word for a systematic infiltration of government at every level by bible-literalist, right wing fundamentalist Christians.

[punkiepie]

What does "dominion oriented" mean? I have heard this term thrown around by Doug.

Dougie is a big fan of the whack job R.J. Rushdoony- who was almost like the father of the radical dominionism movement in America. Basically what they want is a return to the rule of God's law in America and then to the rest of the world, ie., all governments would be a Christian theocracy. This means you could legally enforce and punish people for "moral" sins like blasphemy, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and pretty much everything else you can think of. They also use a lot of Old Testament laws that most mainstream Christians feel are only applicable under Old Covenant law and not the New Covenant.

[finleeport]

Dougie is a big fan of the whack job R.J. Rushdoony- who was almost like the father of the radical dominionism movement in America. Basically what they want is a return to the rule of God's law in America and then to the rest of the world, ie., all governments would be a Christian theocracy. This means you could legally enforce and punish people for "moral" sins like blasphemy, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and pretty much everything else you can think of. They also use a lot of Old Testament laws that most mainstream Christians feel are only applicable under Old Covenant law and not the New Covenant.

That's just sick, really really sick

[JennJenn]

Dougie is a big fan of the whack job R.J. Rushdoony- who was almost like the father of the radical dominionism movement in America. Basically what they want is a return to the rule of God's law in America and then to the rest of the world, ie., all governments would be a Christian theocracy. This means you could legally enforce and punish people for "moral" sins like blasphemy, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and pretty much everything else you can think of. They also use a lot of Old Testament laws that most mainstream Christians feel are only applicable under Old Covenant law and not the New Covenant.

That is just beyond messed up. Remember when Hitler had an idea like that and look what happened? *shudders*

[Brainsample]

They are Calvinists that are also the most uptight version of something along the lines of the IFB. But I think that Doug drinks from time to time, but the rules don't really apply to him. (People have commented to me that they've seen him drink wine in certain settings, but after all, wine is Biblical.) Puritans are much more laid back.

[Brainsample]

My husband just said that he thinks that Doug doesn't really have a theology unless he's trying to market a video or some new product like a CD or a DVD set. Thinks that he makes it up as he goes along.