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Fundies and their love for the King James bible


fakepigtails73

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I've been thinking about something that has been bugging me in a way recently... :mouse-shock:

 

Over 90% of the Christian fundies that we write about follow a version of "King James bible-only" Protestantism. For them it seems that all of the other bible versions, including the Roman Catholic version are strictly "verbotten".

 

Ok then...

 

So how do they explain the way christians worshipped between the 1st century AD and the years when King James had the version of the bible that shares his name translated, in the early XVIIth century ? :angry-banghead:

 

I don't know if what I'm asking makes sense? :doh: Do the Duggars and others of the same ilk really believe that for at least fifteen hundred years or so no one nowhere worshipped God adequately?

 

Why is the KJ bible the only one that has their God's stamp of approval?

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I've been thinking about something that has been bugging me in a way recently... :mouse-shock:

Over 90% of the Christian fundies that we write about follow a version of "King James bible-only" Protestantism. For them it seems that all of the other bible versions, including the Roman Catholic version are strictly "verbotten".

Ok then...

So how do they explain the way christians worshipped between the 1st century AD and the years when King James had the version of the bible that shares his name translated, in the early XVIIth century ? :angry-banghead:

I don't know if what I'm asking makes sense? :doh: Do the Duggars and others of the same ilk really believe that for at least fifteen hundred years or so no one nowhere worshipped God adequately?

Why is the KJ bible the only one that has their God's stamp of approval?

Some of them believe that it was additionally revealed while being translated, thus is more accurate than others, I think.

I suspect that it is because it is the oldest English Bible they can really read and mostly understand (much older and they'd have a hard time with the language), and they think thee and thou add authority to the language.

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I've been thinking about something that has been bugging me in a way recently... :mouse-shock:

Over 90% of the Christian fundies that we write about follow a version of "King James bible-only" Protestantism. For them it seems that all of the other bible versions, including the Roman Catholic version are strictly "verbotten".

Ok then...

So how do they explain the way christians worshipped between the 1st century AD and the years when King James had the version of the bible that shares his name translated, in the early XVIIth century ? :angry-banghead:

I don't know if what I'm asking makes sense? :doh: Do the Duggars and others of the same ilk really believe that for at least fifteen hundred years or so no one nowhere worshipped God adequately?

Why is the KJ bible the only one that has their God's stamp of approval?[/quote]

Per Jim Bob Duggar -- because God inspired King James to write it (all by himself!) :lol:

The KJV Only movement is quite large and has several different factions. I think the Fundie faction we study believe that it is the "best" translation of the various sources and older Bible translations, so no other translation can improve it. Why do they think that? I dunno. No-one I've asked has had a sensible answer yet. They usually end up giving me tracts or saying "because Pastor X says so." :shrug:

There are books about the KJVO movement and plenty of opposition to it if you google. Usually any attempt to debate logically with a KJVO person on the subject ends up with being told you are a sinner for even questioning them.

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I found this one tract:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_only.htm

Personally, I found it unintentionally hilarious. Use of ALL CAPS apparently makes your point more convincing, as does pointing out the Satanic influence of those who have another view.

The idea of people confusing a tract with a scholarly argument sort of makes me want to cry for the dying brain cells.

Translations are a tool, period. The original language of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is Hebrew, the original language of the New Testament is Greek. Any scholar will tell you that the most reliable way to study any document is in its original language. There is a reason that the phrase "lost in translation" exists. I can think of tons of meanings that are lost in English just in the first few chapters of Genesis alone - the use of the word "man" to refer to the first human, the true translation of helpmeet, tons of puns, etc. In Genesis, Chapters 1 and 2, those small things actually change the whole meaning of gender-related teachings. Biblical names in Genesis, for example, make no sense if you don't connect them to their Hebrew meanings. In Genesis 21, some who read only the KJV would have no idea that there is a connection between the name Isaac and Sarah's laughter.

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I asked my JW in-laws this, since their version of the bible has only been around since the late 1800 or early 1900s if I remember right. Their answer was that early Christians practiced the same way that JWs do now, and it was the other mistranslations of the bible inspired by Satan or something that pulled people away from THE TRUTH. The JW bible has restored the bible back to the way it was meant to be read. So yes there are countless people in the who-knows-how-many years between the original "true" Christians and the JWs who practiced the religion wrong, but apparently that is why Jehovah is forgiving. Or something.

It is funny, my husband was no longer a JW when we met, but he had a hard time understanding that there are other versions of the bible that people see as valid. He had always been told that the JW version was the most accurate, that even when he no longer believed in the bible, he still couldn't understand why other Christian denominations were reading subpar bibles. It took a lot of debate for me to make him see that just because JWs say they are the only ones to have interpreted it right does not make that true. He had a similar challenge getting over his views on blood transfusions. Indoctrination at its finest...

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When I was growing up it was KJV or nothing. I don't really remember the arguments for it other than it was the only one divinely inspired, the rest tainted by Satan.

I think this Chick tract chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp expresses a lot of the beliefs I was raised on.

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thanks for all replies!

Interesting stuff.

And yup, I do remember when Jim-Boob was in Scotland and pointed the castle where "King James wrote the bible"!! :twisted: :lol:

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This is what bothers me the most about Biblical literalists. If I ask 4 co-workers who are all fluent in both English and Spanish to translate a short letter on a mundane topic I will get four slightly different translations. These are people describing everyday, common events in languages they have spoken since childhood. I can't imagine the difficulties in translating ancient documents on complex subjects complete with thousands of years of historical and cultural context.

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The more informed/scholarly among them will point out that the KJV was put together in the same historical era as the printing press and increased mass literacy, as well as nearer the date of the Protestant schism with the ebil Catholic church. The Protestants fled with their KJV and have clung to it in righteousness ever since-- at least, those Protestants who have not been led astray by the Satan-inspired NIV, ESV, Good News, etc.

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This is what bothers me the most about Biblical literalists. If I ask 4 co-workers who are all fluent in both English and Spanish to translate a short letter on a mundane topic I will get four slightly different translations. These are people describing everyday, common events in languages they have spoken since childhood. I can't imagine the difficulties in translating ancient documents on complex subjects complete with thousands of years of historical and cultural context.

Please forgive my half-assed response (was up all night), but I wanted to say: ^^ THIS! Times eleventy!!11!!

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My aunt and uncle are independent Baptist missionaries, and straddle the border between fundie, fundie-light, and completely batshit crazy. They're big believers in KJV only to the point that my uncle actually asked my mom if she was concerned (she's not and and after majoring in religion at an actual college tends to go off on the fact that the KJV is one of the worst English translation available) about the fact that I read to my daughter from a story bible instead of an illustrated KJV and let her listen to Bible verse songs that while basically scripture verbatim that she knows several from memory (which you'd think they'd be impressed with) aren't KJV either. Basically from what they've said, the KJV is the inspired word of God in English. Apparently other translations are inspired for other people, but in English that's it. I tried to find the link on his facebook page but couldn't, but a while back my uncle shared a link to a site that explains why KJV only and a large part of the argument was that other English translations used sources from Egypt and apparently Egypt is permanently evil because they kept the ancient Hebrews as slaves.

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I've been thinking about something that has been bugging me in a way recently... :mouse-shock:

Over 90% of the Christian fundies that we write about follow a version of "King James bible-only" Protestantism. For them it seems that all of the other bible versions, including the Roman Catholic version are strictly "verbotten".

Ok then...

So how do they explain the way christians worshipped between the 1st century AD and the years when King James had the version of the bible that shares his name translated, in the early XVIIth century ? :angry-banghead:

I don't know if what I'm asking makes sense? :doh: Do the Duggars and others of the same ilk really believe that for at least fifteen hundred years or so no one nowhere worshipped God adequately?

Why is the KJ bible the only one that has their God's stamp of approval?

I know we dicussed this on yuku so I'm going back to see if I can find my post there. I will say that KJV onlyism is one thing I never quite swallowed. I tried to believe it, but I knew that meanings of words in 1611 are not the same as they are today. And using the 1828 Webster's Dictionary didn't help-- it was still 200 years newer than the 1611 KJV. It is also interesting to note that all the while they are shouting KJV 1611, they don't even use that version which contained the Apocrypha. The version used today is atualy the 1769 version (if wikipedia is correct).

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/5155/B ... own?page=1 if you want to read the discussion there. Except it wasn't the reply I was looking for.

One argument I heard was that 7 is the number of perfection and that the KJV was the 7th version of the Bible in English. This corresponds to Psalm 12:6- "The words of the LORD are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times."

If you're truly interested an want to wade into a really thick fundie book, read "The Final Authority: The Christians Guide to the King James Bible" by Bill Grady. http://www.amazon.com/Final-Authority-C ... liam+Grady

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My husband's reasoning is that he claims it's the only Bible that doesn't use manuscripts that he (and aparantly others) believes were corrupted by the Catholic church.

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What happens to non-English speakers according to KJB-onlysts?

It's always seemed to me such a stupid, anglocentric notion...

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av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html I'm not sure if that's the article my uncle linked to or not, but it does reference that other translations came out Egypt and Rome which apparently are symbolic of the world.

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I think of reading the KJV as like reading Shakepeare. It's really hard when you first start but as you learn the language it becomes easy. (Yes, I read Shakespeare for fun. I have said before I am a nerd.) The problem is, fundies use it when they go out on missions so they are using it with people who don't understand. I am picturing the Duggar bus when the decorated it with a bible verse for the Christmas parade. Why not use American Standard Version so those reading the sign know what you are talking about?

Someone commented above the KJV is the worst translation and it is easy to see why when you know it's history. King James assembled a group of bishops (?) to translate it but they were instructed to use language that was already archaic and to make sure everything would be approved of by the King. No way can you produce an accurate translation when you are also trying to meet someone's personal standards. (I learnt this from. BBC documentary which I trust more than a fundy pastor.)

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snip

If you're truly interested an want to wade into a really thick fundie book, read "The Final Authority: The Christians Guide to the King James Bible" by Bill Grady. http://www.amazon.com/Final-Authority-C ... liam+Grady

This month's book for the book club in Worldly Distractions was "In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How it Changed a Nation, a Language and a Culture" by Alister McGrath. We could use some more voices in the discussion if anyone wants to read it and join in.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18164

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Per Jim Bob Duggar -- because God inspired King James to write it (all by himself!) :lol:

The KJV Only movement is quite large and has several different factions. I think the Fundie faction we study believe that it is the "best" translation of the various sources and older Bible translations, so no other translation can improve it. Why do they think that? I dunno. No-one I've asked has had a sensible answer yet. They usually end up giving me tracts or saying "because Pastor X says so." :shrug:

It's good to know people put so much deep thought and research into the book by which they live their lives, by which they run and restrict their children's lives, and upon which they are staking the fate of what they believe to be their eternal soul.

This lifelong atheist knows more about the circumstances under which the KJV was commissioned, translated, printed, and distributed than some fundamentalist patriarchs, responsible for the spiritual well being of their large families, seem to.

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As someone who grew up in a strict Catholic home and was told several times that our religion was the one true religion and everyone else was not exactly going to hell but taking the longer road to heaven, I find all the anti-Catholic beliefs among fundies to be hilarious. I'm no longer a practicing Catholic, but this site is the first time in my life I've read where we were doing it so wrong. Who knew?

As a good Catholic family, I think the only Bible we had in our house was a children's picture Bible. Lots of biographies of the saints, though, and statues and rosaries. I bet most fundies would have had a coronary about that.

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Many thanks to those who posted the tracts above. The first is hilarious in its inability to distinguish fact from opinion. The second (the Chick one) gave me one of the best belly laughs I've had for ages. "This law still exists and it will be used in the next [inevitable] Inquisition." Oh those ebil Catholics and their dastardly plots !!!!!!eleventy!!!!! The description of the Reformation reads like 1066 and All That -- except it is deadly serious!

I'll come clean. As a card carrying Atheist who grew up fundie-lite, but whose family bounced among various Protestant churches a lot during my childhood before finally settling for a low church C of E, I rather like the KJV. As literature, rather than as a guide to living, the text has a lovely cadence to it and I enjoy the archaic language.

The same with the Book of Common Prayer. The last time I was at a C of E communion service (don't shoot me, a little bit of symbolic endo-canabalism is no skin off my nose for the sake of family harmony) the rest of the congregation was intoning the updated Alternative version while I was happily reciting the 1928 version from memory: "It is very meet, right, and our bounden duty, that we should at all times, and in all places, give thanks unto thee, O Lord, Holy Father, Almighty, Everlasting God . . ." I still think the old version of that and the Lord's Prayer sounds better. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us . . ." is much less judgmental and nicer sounding than "forgive us our sins" to my ears. :lol:

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Ha, Palimpsest, I still recite large chunks from memory. (When I attended an LEP with Methodists, we'd quite often get people declaring that we all share in the one broaf... or occasionally lead)

"And grant, o most merciful Father, for his sake, that we may hereafter live a godly, righteous and shober life."

The really weird parts are when the bible reading includes a bit that's in Messiah. Even the ones that don't end "plink plonk".

At the recent school Eucharist, Reverend Alan ended with "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" to which Jane and I merrily replied "in the name of Christ! Amen" before noticing that all the kids were looking bewildered thinking "it doesn't say that"...

A few months ago I realised that I was reciting the Lord's Prayer while totally thinking about something else.

Actually, the 1928 version has "as we forgive them that trespass against us". I haven't yet tried pushing that one ;- )

We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against thy holy laws. We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, and we have done those things which we ought not to have done, and there is no health in us;

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Silly question from a Jew - when did they change the Lord's Prayer? I heard it every day in school here (Ontario, Canada) until 1985, and it definitely had "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us".

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Silly question from a Jew - when did they change the Lord's Prayer? I heard it every day in school here (Ontario, Canada) until 1985, and it definitely had "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us".

Please do not laugh. I thought that was the catholic version and that all protestants just owed loads of money to folks, hence the debtors :lol:

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Ha, Palimpsest, I still recite large chunks from memory. (When I attended an LEP with Methodists, we'd quite often get people declaring that we all share in the one broaf... or occasionally lead)

"And grant, o most merciful Father, for his sake, that we may hereafter live a godly, righteous and shober life."

The really weird parts are when the bible reading includes a bit that's in Messiah. Even the ones that don't end "plink plonk".

At the recent school Eucharist, Reverend Alan ended with "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" to which Jane and I merrily replied "in the name of Christ! Amen" before noticing that all the kids were looking bewildered thinking "it doesn't say that"...

A few months ago I realised that I was reciting the Lord's Prayer while totally thinking about something else.

Actually, the 1928 version has "as we forgive them that trespass against us". I haven't yet tried pushing that one ;- )

We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against thy holy laws. We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, and we have done those things which we ought not to have done, and there is no health in us;

Many thanks for the support and laugh, and isn't the bolded rather beautiful?

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Please do not laugh. I thought that was the catholic version and that all protestants just owed loads of money to folks, hence the debtors :lol:

FFS don't ask me! I'm totally confused. All I can say is that Mr P and I attend Catholic and C of E services irregularly. Possibly every 5 years or so, although we do get occasional gluts. Mostly around funerals. Family harmony and respect for the deceased usually prevail. We go and recite the words.

I "think" the Alternative Lord's Prayer came in around 2000 for the C of E in the UK, but I may be wrong. I've lived in the US for ages and do not keep track.

I do know that Mr P and I married in the UK in a "fusion," although we did not use that word, Catholic/C of E ceremony back in 1979. In Hampstead Parish Church! It was presided over by a C of E Bishop, a C of E Vicar and a Catholic priest, and we had to get a Papal Dispensation to get the priest. We had not yet completely shed our religious childhoods, although we were definitely on that journey together.

Mr P's American devout Catholic parents were over the moon about our C of E 1928 Book of Common Prayer wedding. To them it sounded like a pre-Vatican II service. They just adored it. It was almost more Catholic than Catholic at the time.

I did not promise to obey! That was quite OK in 1979 with the Vicar.

We did ask the Vicar to change one other word. He was supposed to pronounce us "Husband" and wife. He forgot and pronounced us "Man" and wife. We forgave him. :lol:

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