What could a submissive wife do if her husband was in a coma

[Stickers]

Or had some other kind of medical emergency, that would usually require some kind of a decision from the spouse? I know the answer might be "pray about it" but, in a lot of cases doctors need an answer right away. If the wives who can't even order pizza for their kids found themselves a situation like that, would could they do, under their set of fundie rules?

[Caxpax]

probably ask their pastor, or their father's father. I bet many of these fundie guys wish they were in a coma from time to time.

Something tells me a fundie guy in a coma wouldn't receive the best care, because his wife wouldn't be able to or even begin to know how to advocate for him. A friend from college's husband sustained a serious TBI in a car accident a few years ago. The doctors and nurses told her there was little chance he would wake from his coma- they said this for a year. They denied her requests for rehab, PT, etc because his case was hopeless. After a year of her doing all the therapy for him she could on her own, and harassing the doctors, he woke up. Every time the docs say he can't do something, and she needs to lower her expectations for him, she throws a fit and finds a way around them. Last I heard her hubby was home from the hospital and working on skills that will allow him to be more independent. A fundie bride wouldn't have been able to push the docs and her husband hard enough to get him where he is today.

[Caxpax]

um that should have read HUSBAND's father, not father's father.

[clibbyjo]

Yep, the woman would call the closest authority( man) to come and make the decisions for her whilel she wrings her hands and leaves it up to god.

[contrary]

i agree...she would be expected to transfer the "umbrella of authority" to another male; her pastor or a male relative.

[FlorenceHamilton]

The decisions would be made by the oldest son. This is the interpretation of the chain of authority I have read in accounts from Vision Forum, Gothard followers, and all other patriocentric examples. The oldest male confers with the adult female and represents the family for important decisions of the husband is dead or unable to do so.

[moreorlessnu]

You mean some poor guy has to field phone calls about whether to buy white or red grapes this week from both his wife and some other guy's wife?

[contrary]

no worries...God will help him!

[bananacat]

Honestly, if you brought this up in a fundie circle, they would just say that you're going to Hell for even asking it, and that if you think about these things you don't have a true spirit of submission. They would say that you are doubting God for attempting to plan for the worst, and if he did actually end up in a coma, then the gossip mills in the church would wonder what sin he had committed that would make God punish him that way.

[Stickers]

The decisions would be made by the oldest son. This is the interpretation of the chain of authority I have read in accounts from Vision Forum, Gothard followers, and all other patriocentric examples. The oldest male confers with the adult female and represents the family for important decisions of the husband is dead or unable to do so.

I didn't think of that, makes me wonder if the age of the son matters. Is it like in the old days when babies were crowned kings? That would be kinda funny.

[Rhetorica]

I suspect that in most situations, women would discover that they are human beings before they are submissive help-meets.

I think of two situations where fundie spouses were in comas. In the first situation, it was the husband who was in a coma; the wife was pregnant (with #6?). They had a son in his early-mid teens, but I don't remember the slightest suggestion that he took a leadership role in that situation. The wife was entirely capable of dealing with the hospital staff and professionals.

In a different situation, the wife was in a coma (after delivering baby #10 or so). However, the husband was all into "submitting to God's will," and drug his feet on advocating for her. IIRC, it created a good deal of tension between him and his (non-fundie) in-laws who wanted to fight with the insurance companies denying her adequate therapies.

Based on this tiny sample, it would seem that male fundie patients are far more likely to get adequate care than female fundie patients. A better reading would probably be that it really depends on the personalities involved--I suspect a lot of fundie women (especially those who were not conditioned into submissive behavior as children) would have no trouble directing their own affairs if needed. The question to ask, though, is would their daughters be able to do the same?

[HowRude]

They would attribute it to God's will and perfect timing for him to die or claim that it is bringing their family closer, then become supported by love offerings. During this time the oldest son will become man of the house. But then what happens if there are no sons? Maybe the wife is once again under the "father's authority".

[Stickers]

Honestly, if you brought this up in a fundie circle, they would just say that you're going to Hell for even asking it, and that if you think about these things you don't have a true spirit of submission. They would say that you are doubting God for attempting to plan for the worst, and if he did actually end up in a coma, then the gossip mills in the church would wonder what sin he had committed that would make God punish him that way.

Well, eek, way harsh fundies :shock:

[Guest Anonymous]

no worries...God will help him!

In other words, he's toast.

[emmiedahl]

So, am I part of the only couple that has discussed this at length? dh would rather die than risk being brain damaged or severely physically impaired OR saddling the family with an immense amount of debt and has asked me to make decisions with this in mind. I have different feelings about that, but I would respect his wishes. We've agreed that having a mother is a priority for our children, even an impaired mother, so he would make different decisions if the same situation applied to me.

I hope fundie couples are discussing these things. And everyone else, too.

[Rosa]

You're not the only one, Emmie. It's the responsible thing to do.

My pregnancy was so bad, my doctor recommended that I have all the living will/directive/whatever documents done. Of course we didn't get them done in time and a lawyer friend had to visit me in the hospital when I was being induced, and do them then. But, he went through the same list of questions (aside form the birth plan) with my partner.

We need to redo our wills, though, to specify a different guardian if we both die. My brother is getting married and is no longer willing to relocate back to the Midwest to parent our son if the need arose.

(the scary thing about that one is, with no family in-state, kiddo would end up in foster care until the courts sorted it out, if we don't have documentation in order.)

[clibbyjo]

You're not the only one, Emmie. It's the responsible thing to do.

My pregnancy was so bad, my doctor recommended that I have all the living will/directive/whatever documents done. Of course we didn't get them done in time and a lawyer friend had to visit me in the hospital when I was being induced, and do them then. But, he went through the same list of questions (aside form the birth plan) with my partner.

We need to redo our wills, though, to specify a different guardian if we both die. My brother is getting married and is no longer willing to relocate back to the Midwest to parent our son if the need arose.

(the scary thing about that one is, with no family in-state, kiddo would end up in foster care until the courts sorted it out, if we don't have documentation in order.)

I'll take him, no foster care for him. :) Just pencil me in until you have a permanent person for him.

My single sister is my kids guardian. I told my MIL when we went to Paris that MY sister gets my house ,the kids, and the insurance money to raise them. My fundie sister isn;t getting them and my sil's kids turned out as giant losers so they certainly aren't getting them.

[forever ago]

Holy shit, just last night I was wondering what a fundie woman would do if something were to happen to her husband.

Like, what if Jim Bob Duggar died in a car accident? I don't want to wish that upon him, for his and his family's sake, but what would Michelle do? What if something happened to Michelle? Worse still, what if something happened to both? Would Josh have to raise his siblings? Would he have to move back home because his own house would not have enough room? The two eldest sisters are adults now though, right? So they can legally have some care/custody of their siblings? Or am I wrong about that? Do Jim Bob and Michelle even have a will? If the oldest siblings don't/can't get custody of the younger siblings, would the younger siblings wind up in foster care? Though I read somewhere on this site that the Duggars do have family in Arkansas, so they probably wouldn't.

Do fundies even think about what happens to their kids when they die?

[Kitten]

Someone put up a link a while ago to (I think) tax rolls in Arkansas (to show Josh doesn't own his car lot), and Michelle and JB had several properties owned by a trust in their names. If they've gone to the trouble of setting up and funding a trust, I'm sure they have wills. Now, whether the girls are actually provided for in those wills, or whether the boys are supposed to take care of them, I have no idea. I'm guessing that even if the girls do get money, it will be all tied up in restrictions - like, they can use it for living expenses, but not education (unless it's on a pre-approved list)...stuff like that. Or maybe they don't get any money of their own until/unless they marry - and then it would go to their husband. I wouldn't put it past JB to do something like that, although I think he's egotistical enough that he'd cringe at the thought of handing over any of "his" money to someone else, even if he were dead when it happened.

[Burris]

Honestly, if you brought this up in a fundie circle, they would just say that you're going to Hell for even asking it, and that if you think about these things you don't have a true spirit of submission.

...or they'd reply by claiming they won't deal in "hypotheticals" - because husbands so rarely get sick or die. And on the rare occasions when husbands do die among the fundie royalty - i.e., among the same people who generally answer those kinds of questions on blogs and in other media - then the others circle the wagons and offer to pay for everything. Never mind that the average fundie (and non-fundie) doesn't have access to that privilege.

[dawn9476]

The decisions would be made by the oldest son. This is the interpretation of the chain of authority I have read in accounts from Vision Forum, Gothard followers, and all other patriocentric examples. The oldest male confers with the adult female and represents the family for important decisions of the husband is dead or unable to do so.

I would think that would only be the case if the oldest male son was over 18.

[dawn9476]

I didn't think of that, makes me wonder if the age of the son matters. Is it like in the old days when babies were crowned kings? That would be kinda funny.

To the family it probably doesn't but a hospital probably wouldn't listen to a male under 18. I would think that would be the state law everywhere. That if the mother turns authority over to her oldest male child, per the state, that male child must be 18.

[mythoughtis]

Doesn't this all sound like the way Great Britain ruled their women 200 years ago? Same over-the-top chaperone, no touching rules, have to get married if you kissed... etc. Same response that a women could not be responsible for herself or own property, it was either her Dad's till she got married, her husband's once she got married, the oldest son's if the husband died..

why do these people persist in acting like the last 200 years and women's sufferage never happened?

the last thing I want is either of my sons making decisions for me.