The world is not overpopulated take 3

[Boogalou]

So ZsuZsu blogs about dumb reasons people think other people have a lot of kids for, yadda yadda. The comment section then devolves into a discussion about how the earth is not overpopulated because if every human was given one acre of land they would all fit into Texas. Some voice of reason points out that it is not so much that the earth is running out of land it is that we lack the resources and farmland. But no worries; there is lots of empty land in Australia we can farm as long as you ignore the fact that it might be desert. Also, not only are people born, they also die and therefore overpopulation is a MYTH just like evolution and global warming.

What is up with fundies denying there is overpopulation. First there is DimBulb claiming every human on earth could fit shoulder to shoulder in Jacksonville then there is Kelly claiming God will make more oil so we will never run out. Gah!!

[xDreamerx]

I wonder if it's just because we (meaning a lot of us and their audience) and they (meaning fundies) may not have been outside or North America, so they have this niave idea that there is enough land. If they went to Asia or parts of Europe they would be a shock. I know some of them have on missions and stuff, but I wonder if it has an implied racism to it. They might think, "That only happens to those people but it won't happen here." It kind of feeds into the whole idea of American being chosen and divinely protected. I don't think people like ZsuZsu feel a moral obligation to others.

[browncoatslytherin]

god will MAKE more oil?? why not find alternatives to oil so we don't have to worry about it? oh wait, i forgot, that's not "trusting god" enough. :naughty: sorry, i don't make a good fundie anymore.

*edit* yay, i'm blanket trained! wow, all in one day! i guess when i have a computer that has the internet, i go nuts. :dance:

[Austin]

I found it rather hard to believe that there are six Billion acres in Texas, so I looked it up:

171,904,640 acres in Texas

http://answers.reference.com/Informatio ... s_in_texas

So that wouldn't even be an acre apiece for Americans. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. :?:

[Jessica]

I was just about to post the same thing, Austin! ;)

[QueenNocturne]

I found it rather hard to believe that there are six Billion acres in Texas, so I looked it up:

171,904,640 acres in Texas

http://answers.reference.com/Informatio ... s_in_texas

So that wouldn't even be an acre apiece for Americans. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. :?:

Maybe by person she means what we would call family, because wimmenfolk don't count and kids belong to their godly patriarch, doncha know?

Well, that, or ZsuZsu is a dumbass, per usual.

[Boogalou]

Here is the actual quote:

The problem is not lack of land, the problem is lack of people farming the land and the price to purchase the land in the first place. My husband and I would become market gardeners if it were at all financially viable. There is the oft-quoted statistic that the population of the world could live in texas on 1 acre lots, plenty of space for all in that one state. Can you honestly say there is not enough farmable land in the rest of the world to feed them? Not enough water in the myriad of water systems?

There is so much wrong with that it is hard to know where to begin. I am pretty sure there is all this empty, expensive, and fertile land lying around. If people are not buying it the price generally drops. Even if it was that every family could fit in one acre in Texas is completely wrong. With 7 billion people in the world let's say something ridiculous, that the average family has 10 people in it (HA!) they would need 700 000 000 acres of land. Texas needs more than 500 million more acres. This person is stupid.

[pomology]

Well, the world can't possibly be overpopulated if every person has enough space to live. Who cares about fresh drinking water and an adequate food supply? :roll:

[jaelh]

See.... I don't think the earth is overpopulated, nor do we have an issue with resources. (and yes, I've spent plenty of time outside the western world).

I do think we have a *massive* problem with resource allocation. We do not need to eat a meat heavy diet. We do not need to live X miles from town. We do not need to run air conditioners. We certainly do not need to undertake wet rice cultivation in dry climates etc...

We also don't need much land to live on. The surprise of Asia isn't the availability of land, so much as the fact that it's possible to live on land parcels that make complaints about NY studio apartments look laughable. We don't *need* much space. We like it, sure (like we like the convenience of personal vehicles, aircon in summer etc...).

If we could manage a little better using what we have I think we could support more people, no problems.

(None of this is to say that idiocy of the comments section at Z's makes any sense at all.)

[Cassandra]

See.... I don't think the earth is overpopulated, nor do we have an issue with resources. (and yes, I've spent plenty of time outside the western world).

I do think we have a *massive* problem with resource allocation. We do not need to eat a meat heavy diet. We do not need to live X miles from town. We do not need to run air conditioners. We certainly do not need to undertake wet rice cultivation in dry climates etc...

We also don't need much land to live on. The surprise of Asia isn't the availability of land, so much as the fact that it's possible to live on land parcels that make complaints about NY studio apartments look laughable. We don't *need* much space. We like it, sure (like we like the convenience of personal vehicles, aircon in summer etc...).

If we could manage a little better using what we have I think we could support more people, no problems.

(None of this is to say that idiocy of the comments section at Z's makes any sense at all.)

I come from an extremely rural area that's prone to flooding and terrible roads due to weather conditions. Big cars with 4-wheel drive are not a luxury, especially in the winter. I know people that couldn't leave their house for a week because they couldn't get down their own drive-way.

It's also a big farming community which does require living 'x miles' from town.

[Burris]

See.... I don't think the earth is overpopulated, nor do we have an issue with resources. (and yes, I've spent plenty of time outside the western world).

I do think we have a *massive* problem with resource allocation. We do not need to eat a meat heavy diet. We do not need to live X miles from town. We do not need to run air conditioners. We certainly do not need to undertake wet rice cultivation in dry climates etc...

I have a couple of responses.

First of all, population density in a specific area can often be linked to higher crime (moar) than one would expect to see within the same population if it is spread over a greater area.

And secondly, just because we theoretically can do something doesn't mean we should. We're an invasive and encroaching species already. There is no rational explanation for wanting to cram every spare space with people, even if resources allocation ever becomes efficient enough to allow for it.

[jaelh]

[

I come from an extremely rural area that's prone to flooding and terrible roads due to weather conditions. Big cars with 4-wheel drive are not a luxury, especially in the winter. I know people that couldn't leave their house for a week because they couldn't get down their own drive-way.

It's also a big farming community which does require living 'x miles' from town.

Yes..... Sure.

But that you live somewhere that requires greater resource allocation doesn't in and of itself justify the greater use of resources. If you used less resources, more would be freed up elsewhere, right? That's exactly the kind of "redistribution" I'm talking about. That you need a 4WD to leave the driveway in winter isn't more necessary than say... a family needing a light in Nambia.

First of all, population density in a specific area can often be linked to higher crime (moar) than one would expect to see within the same population if it is spread over a greater area.

That makes sense. It's also correlated with a lesser rate of resource depletion and there are better outcomes for residents [egeducational, financial]. The positives and negatives don't cancel out the other, but that cuts both ways.

Re the "don't think we should": I'm not advocating for a greater population. The world is a mess. I'm saying thought that if we got our house in order, we likely could.

[xDreamerx]

This might be offensive, but personally I'd rather not over populate the earth because I like being comfortable and having space and nice things. But beyond my own life, we don't exactly take care of the people we have and the poor, not just aboard but in our own countries. There are still a lot of hungry, needy people. Why don't we work on that first? I mean yes, people need to have kids to keep us going but into the double digits is excessive.

[Prek teach]

But what about septic systems? Don't most require a leaching field? So part of the land one can neither build on or farm on because it is part of the septic field. And if the land doesn't perk then how can you build on it?

[Boogalou]

Well, the world can't possibly be overpopulated if every person has enough space to live. Who cares about fresh drinking water and an adequate food supply? :roll:

So true. And, you know, if we ever run out of that God will make more. But only if True White Christians are affected and especially if Kelly is affected. Because God is cool like that.

Although there are some things that are in finite supply, fortunately, some are not. Like stupidity:

I am curious as to the overpopulation thing though. An average of 150k to 200k people die everyday. I wonder if slips the minds of some that people are not just born, but die also. Overpopulation is a big ole lie, a fear tactic. We aren't running out of viable land to grow things, the governments who impose ridiculous laws stating when, where and under which conditions you can grow things are causing the most problems.

We are not overpopulated because people die, y'all! Forget the fact that more people are born than people die, that is just a big ole lie, a fear tactic. But we mainly need to remember that this is ALL the governments fault, like it usually is.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

especially if Kelly is affected. Because God is cool like that.

OMG you just made me snap one of the rubber bands on my braces (just had jaw surgery) from laughing so hard !!!

[Boogalou]

OMG you just made me snap one of the rubber bands on my braces (just had jaw surgery) from laughing so hard !!!

Sorry for snapping your rubber band but if you were Kelly, God would not have let that happen either.

[Deleted03]

I read the article on The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ion-planet

I wanted to post it but was away at the time.

"The world's area of cultivated land has expanded by about 13 percent since its measurement began in 1961, but the doubling of world population since then means that each of us can count on just half as much land as in 1961 to produce the food we eat."

"More than two in five pregnancies worldwide are unintended by the women who experience them, and half or more of these pregnancies result in births that spur continued population growth. Clearly there is vast potential to slow that growth through something women want and need: the capacity to decide for themselves when to become pregnant. "

Yes ZsuZsu, the solution to overpopulation is contraception and abortion. Guess God did not see that coming.

[emmiedahl]

Well, I have a large family. I have ecological leanings and feel bad, but honestly we consume less than the average family of 4. I've done the carbon footprint calculator and we are A-OK.

I think that the world can always use more compassionate, hard-working people. So if you want a large family, fine, but do it right. You have a duty to make sure that every one of those offspring makes the world a better place.

I also think that many people with kids honestly didn't want them--it was unplanned or just what you do after you get married and buy a house. I would like to see that type of childbearing stopped by making contraception more available and childless couples more acceptable. Have children because you adore raising them, not by default.

[camdendayton]

Here's my thing RE: Overpopulation, I agree that the Earth can support a lot of people (even more than we have now) but one also has to think about quality of life. For example, the US has 5% of the world's population, but uses 24% of the energy that is consumed worldwide. What would happen if everyone used energy like the US does? I know God's going to make more oil and all :roll: but really.

[lilwriter85]

Here's my thing RE: Overpopulation, I agree that the Earth can support a lot of people (even more than we have now) but one also has to think about quality of life. For example, the US has 5% of the world's population, but uses 24% of the energy that is consumed worldwide. What would happen if everyone used energy like the US does? I know God's going to make more oil and all :roll: but really.

I agree consumption is the reason for a lot of concern over how overpopulation can hurt the Earth and quality of life.

[lilwriter85]

So ZsuZsu blogs about dumb reasons people think other people have a lot of kids for, yadda yadda. The comment section then devolves into a discussion about how the earth is not overpopulated because if every human was given one acre of land they would all fit into Texas. Some voice of reason points out that it is not so much that the earth is running out of land it is that we lack the resources and farmland. But no worries; there is lots of empty land in Australia we can farm as long as you ignore the fact that it might be desert. Also, not only are people born, they also die and therefore overpopulation is a MYTH just like evolution and global warming.

What is up with fundies denying there is overpopulation. First there is DimBulb claiming every human on earth could fit shoulder to shoulder in Jacksonville then there is Kelly claiming God will make more oil so we will never run out. Gah!!

I have seen the people dying argument in discussion about overpopulation. I remember reading a blog from a quadriplegic woman who was talked about how if she had lived in other countries instead of the U.S. there would have been a good chance that she would died from the accident that paralyzed her. I remember she said that she valued health care but at the same time felt that some people were living too longer and causing issues for different societies and one issue she brought up was overpopulation and how the world's resources are effected because there some natural resources are needed daily to keep people who severely paralyzed alive.

[darareaksmey]

Hmmm. I wonder what ZhuZhu, favored of God, thinks of large families that consist of single black mothers with 6 or 8 kids living in squalor in urban tenements? What if those were the people who suddenly everywhere, using resources, taking up space? Oh wait, I think she already has an opinion on that.

[debrand]

What is wrong about being a good stewart to the world? Isn't that part of the bible? There are groups of Christians here in America that seem to have forgotten that.

[LIzzieB]

I'm not surprised by the statistic above about the disproportionate consumption of energy by the USA. I stayed in Orange County, CA for three weeks earlier this year and was quite shocked. It seemed to me (although I'm sure it's not true) that people practically lived in their cars, going from an airconditioned house, into the car, and driving around a car park for ages so they could get a space right next to their destination. People were horrified when I asked if a location was within walking distance, "Walk? We don't walk!" Oil consumption must be horrific.

Although, it's hardly like we've got our own house in order. After surviving a decade of severe drought, we had major water restrictions in many parts of Australia, and were looking at ways to reduce water consumption permanently. Now that we've had some rain, the government seems to have forgotten all about this... how convenient - until the next drought. At one point, our former prime minister was advocating a bigger Australia, saying that we could support 35 million people! Luckily the country laughed him down and the next PM has stated that it was a ridiculous idea. ZsuZsu - Australia might be huge with a small population, but most of the country is practically uninhabitable!