Holiday question from a "Fundie"

[BexRani]

I am a person who some of you might consider "fundie". I have a question that I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on.

We have just passed the "Christmas" season where some fights will break out over "Holiday" wording. Some will scream that it has to be "Merry Christmas" some will scream "Happy Holiday" to be PC and just generally considerate.

I personally think the fighting is somewhat.... dumb. If a store clerk wishes me "Happy Holidays" I personally do not get offended.

But, my question is not about Christmas/Happy Holidays.

My Question is about Halloween.

I personally do not celebrate Halloween. (My question is not about it being evil, nor for religious reasons)

While driving through town this past fall, my husband and I drove past a home that was decorated for Halloween. The decorations that were dangling from the porch were a dozen "chopped" and "bloody" feet. They were realistic and the whole decor was very grotesque.

The goblins don't bother me, the ghosts don't bother me, the witches and brooms don't bother me.

But chopped and bloody feet that will give my kids nightmares bothers me.

So my question is, Would any one else be bothered by this? And why do people not cause problems about something so R-rated fully visible to small kids, yet cause such a problem over religious differences during other Holidays?

[bekkah]

I'm what you would call a liberal spirtual believer. I believe in God and some other stuff that you wouldn't believe in. Anyway, I do find that to be disturbing. I think its fine if you want to decorate for Halloween but I do believe it cannot be a horror movie on your lawn either. If its in their house, I don't really care but the whole lawn thing is tricky to deal with because it is their property. I believe that people have the freedom to do what they want on their property but I do find that unnecessary. I think its find that balance.

[holierthanyou]

When driving/walking by an abortion protest where people sometimes hold pictures of bloody organs or limbs, I just point at something in the opposite direction and ask the children to "look over there!".

If the plastic chopped feet decorations give you cause for concern for your children's innocence, then you could similarly suggest they look elsewhere. Of course, if you know where that particular house in your town is, another option would be that you and your husband avoid driving by it during October if you are children are in the car.

[Conuly]

Children can get nightmares over the strangest things. One of my nieces was scared of a sheet ghost (literally, a sheet) a neighbor had hanging out of his window. So I don't think the "Think of the kids!" argument is a good one when it comes to decorations, because plenty of kids would NOT have nightmares from those feet and plenty of others would have nightmares over something any reasonable individual would think was harmless.

However, yes, I think that sounds incredibly tasteless if it really did look realistic. Not sure what you can do about it, though, other than writing sternly worded letters to the editor of your local newspaper.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I'm not religious at all.

But I will happily admit I don't like a lot of Halloween, because so many places use dismembered body or body-horror decorations that do disturb me. I don't like that sort of stuff, AT ALL. If it's in the context of some wonderfully horrifying book that will keep me up for days, I can obsess over it and enjoy it some for what it is, but it's disturbing (and valued for that, in context), so I really don't want to see it while standing in line for a cup of coffee. I avoid my local coffeehouse the week before Halloween because I really don't like the decor.

On the other hand I LOVE creative costumes - even some disturbing ones. But creative, people making their own (or me making mine - yes, I participate in the office contest).

The chopped feet you describe would disturb me too. I'd prefer those things be kept inside where people willingly sign on for the experience (which I might do, even, but... I don't want to just be confronted with gory things everywhere outside).

Like the others I don't think it can be banned, really, but... yeah, around Halloween I'm careful where I go.

Yet, thinking about it - while it's true that some people will be disturbed by perfectly "innocent" things so it's hard to draw the line, there's a pretty good consensus online about what needs a "NSFW" tag on it. Bloody dismembered feet would usually qualify (as would naked living people - I have to wonder what would happen if someone were setting up realistic looking naked women mannequins in a hot tub in the yard). A little courtesy in making that stuff require a little more active participation might be good. Voluntarily, at least.

[donks]

hey, BexRani... if those little feet bothered you, you'd better stay away from my house from September 1 through November 10th or so... I'm just sayin' ;)

[jeansonly]

Delurking to answer this. I'm agnostic and I hate these sorts of displays. I've always disliked horror and gore. I also have a very senstive child who is easily upset by such things. At eleven she can handle it but as a young child she would have been nightmares for sure.

We do Halloween here but no graphic horror or gore. I don't really care what others do in general but when it's so OUT there for everyone to see and can't easily be avoided, I don't like it. We had someone around the corner from us who had such a display for a few years. THREE doors down from the Catholic church and school. I felt for all the parents who had to drive their children by it to get to church and school. And any kids who lived next door or across the street. I would not have been able to sleep as a child if that was outside my bedroom window. I would have been terrified.

[PBrooke]

It is tasteless, but that's an issue of that particular person, not Halloween in general - which is probably why it would never make national news, for example. My Halloween decorations involve friendly pumpkins and ghosts and are far less scary than any depictions of demons and devils I've ever seen - and I think you'll find that's more common for the front lawn than severed limbs.

As far as what to do personally, well, that's up to you. If you're just thinking hypothetically - some kids, somewhere, might be scared - I'd say leave it alone or maybe write a letter to the editor. If you've got kids of your own, try to avoid that house (I'd say go the other direction while trick-or-treating, but never mind, you don't do that). If I had a toddler and lived next door to the feet, or across the street, I might consider saying something, since it's fairly unavoidable. I remember when I was younger and lived in a neighborhood with a lot of toddlers and young kids my mother made sure to decorate in a kid-friendly manner.

Remember, though, that this is an issue of taste, not an issue of the evils of Halloween, and you might want to bear that in mind when you're speaking to your kids so they don't get the wrong idea of the holiday. The vast majority of people who celebrate it today, as well as the many cultures whose traditions make up the modern version of the holiday, have nothing to do with severed limbs or anything else that belongs in a horror film.

[valsa]

Because some people don't care about scary decorations? There are lots of things I wouldn't want kids seeing: the anti-choice signs someone else mentioned, protestors at a gay pride parade that tell little Suzy and Timmy that their two mommies or two daddies are evil and going to hell, homeless/poor people begging for money on the corner because the rich in this country have decimated the not-haves ability to make a decent living.

Scary decorations at what is supposed to be a scary time of year is a non-issue to me. Then again, so is the whole "Merry Christmas"/"Happy Holiday" debate (in the interest of full disclosure- I say "Happy Holidays" to people no matter which they've said to me but I don't make an issue out of it)

[Kitty]

The gory decorations bother me too. Sure, it's all in good fun, but you know something's screwed up in our society when we're so flippant about gore but get so heated over "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays."

[Hane]

I'm nowhere near fundie, and I hate Halloween. At best, it's a pain in the @$$, and at worst it's disturbing.

[fundiefun]

Catholic, but I hate halloween as well. I'm fine with popping in a few scary movies and sitting on the couch, but gore and things like that no thanks.

[Sola]

If it was realistic, it would frighten my daughter. She's a bit sensitive with that sort of stuff. If I came across a house like that, I would just not take her there trick or treating. If she noticed it, I would try and redirect her and if that failed I'd just have to try and explain to her that the stuff was just plastic. It's tasteless but you kind of expect that sort of thing on halloween anyway. I just wish that we hadn't imported that damned thing over here!

Someone mentioned abortion placards; sorry but I'd be mightily pissed off at those. On halloween if I want I can keep my daughter in, but if you happen to come across some abortion protesters with the placards like we've seen online there isn't a lot you can do about it. I'd be furious with them because I simply don't see the need to traumatise people like that. If you have to have gory pictures to get your message across, you have failed.

[Crackedeggs]

Dont' care what you wish me.. Happy Holidays, Joyus Yule, Merry Christmas - it's all good.

Don't like gory decorations at Halloween - but I love the more fun and artistic ones.

Don't like anti-abortion grossness.

Don't want anyone teaching my kid hate... don't want anyone teaching my kid more, alternative style sex either. I've seen some alternate lifestyle parades - in person and in pictures - that are pretty risque. Keep it in the bedroom, folks. I don't want to see some 60 year old with his nuts hanging to his knees in a Body Modification Pride parade just because I took a wrong turn that day. Heather has Two Mommies is one thing... Mistress Heather from CSI is quite another.

[Crackedeggs]

Not that I don't enjoy a little spanking and silk scarve play myself.. just how the hell do you explain that to a 5 year old who doesn't even quite get why her cats are humping?

[BravaAmica]

I am a person who some of you might consider "fundie". I have a question that I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on.

We have just passed the "Christmas" season where some fights will break out over "Holiday" wording. Some will scream that it has to be "Merry Christmas" some will scream "Happy Holiday" to be PC and just generally considerate.

I personally think the fighting is somewhat.... dumb. If a store clerk wishes me "Happy Holidays" I personally do not get offended.

But, my question is not about Christmas/Happy Holidays.

My Question is about Halloween.

I personally do not celebrate Halloween. (My question is not about it being evil, nor for religious reasons)

While driving through town this past fall, my husband and I drove past a home that was decorated for Halloween. The decorations that were dangling from the porch were a dozen "chopped" and "bloody" feet. They were realistic and the whole decor was very grotesque.

The goblins don't bother me, the ghosts don't bother me, the witches and brooms don't bother me.

But chopped and bloody feet that will give my kids nightmares bothers me.

So my question is, Would any one else be bothered by this? And why do people not cause problems about something so R-rated fully visible to small kids, yet cause such a problem over religious differences during other Holidays?

Gee, I don't know. Why would someone drive around with pictures of aborted fetuses on their minivan and then I have to explain that to my child?

I'd rather explain the pretend yet realistic looking body parts than why people who are allegedly "pro-life" expose children to pictures of aborted fetuses.

The point of Halloween is the celebrate the grotesque and horrifying.

[holierthanyou]

I've seen some alternate lifestyle parades - in person and in pictures - that are pretty risque. Keep it in the bedroom, folks. I don't want to see some 60 year old with his nuts hanging to his knees in a Body Modification Pride parade just because I took a wrong turn that day.

Cities only have pride parades one day a year. Most cities (much less towns and villages) don't have any at all. If you are fortunate enough to live in a city with a pride parade, you can easily learn the one day a year they have it, and avoid the whole city that day if you are worrying about an accidental wrong turn.

I understand that nudity is different than kissing in public, but it irks me when people say "I'm cool with it, just keep it private in the bedroom" in regards to pride parades, because it feels like they miss that the other 364 days of the year are pretty much a straight parade (minus any nudity). I understand why you don't want your child to see naked adults, or the pride parade in its entirety, but I think there is a world of difference between saying you choose not to take your child to pride and saying "Keep it in the bedroom, folks".

My two cents.

[meda]

I don't love gore either, so I don't enjoy the realistic body part displays myself. Also, I'm pretty superstitious so I don't want to decorate in a way that will attract bad...things, human or otherwise. Which means I don't think fundie "hell houses" are a particularly good idea. Tempting fate, as it were. :o

[Witsec7]

If you are squicked out because of gory halloween decorations and your child viewing them, I do have a couple of suggestions. Whenever transporting a child during the halloween season put a paper bag over their head. If that is not acceptable divert their attention by saying 'Look over there, two women kissing". Hope this works for you.

[clarinetpower]

My daughter was afraid of Russel in "UP" (movie). Russel was the pudgy boy scout. (Kids are weird.) :D

I concur with most opinions above re: Halloween décor. Better to teach my child "there will be scary things in the world. You can't control that, but you can control your reaction." Put her in the driver's seat--she can choose to look away and not associate with it herself, but she is aware and not sheltered from reality.

[changemanagement]

Heh

It sounds like people having the vapors about this stuff. No it doesn't bother me. My philosophy with regard to exposing my kid to stuff was very little censorship. Explain or redirect. I could not possibly keep everything I thought was questionable from her curious eyes, so I just faced it head on. I like the end results.

Gory body parts, let's discuss.

Explicit lyrics coming from the radio in the car next to me, lets discuss.

Seeing 2 men holdin hands, let's discuss.

X-rated t-shirts, redirect.

The kid needs to create a toolbox of skills to deal with different situations, rather than mommy shielding her from life.

[jenny_islander]

Our town has a Downtown Trick-or-Treat on Halloween. One local business, a walk-in clinic, does a fun, kid-style haunted house just by putting up its medical models and some of those toy witches and such that cackle when you pull their strings, plus some fake cobwebs. They turn down the lights and play a CD of spoooooky noooooises. Little kids go in the front, dash giggling under the fake cobwebs, pull the witch's string, tiptoe past the model skeleton, and then get candy next to the back door. Another business, a large bingo hall, does a truly terrifying haunted house for teens and adults only, with gore, screaming actors, etc. That's okay too. The one that I complained about was the car dealership that admitted tiny children into a room full of some of the most vomit-inducing Halloween decorations I have ever seen and made them walk up to a guy made up to look like a car crash victim in order to get candy. I called the owner, explained why my kids wouldn't go past the door, and the next year they toned it down and provided a separate "Creepy Room" for older kids who wanted a scare. I didn't complain about the displays in the bingo hall because they said right at the door that it wasn't for kids the age of my kids, and I didn't complain about the displays in the doctor's office because I don't believe that letting kids confront scary things in a non-overwhelming situation hurts them at all--rather the opposite.

Basically, it's reasonable to tell people, "Your decorations creeped out my kids, if you seriously want little kids to come to your door you should tone it down." But if you don't have a dog in the fight, it's better not to say anything.

[mnb357]

Personally, I LOVE Halloween. For us, it's a trilogy of holidays...All Hallow's Eve, All Soul's, and All Saint's Day. Religion aside, I love Halloween because it's a fun time for my familly of choice, without gift obligations or in-law obligations. Plus, you get candy, lots of it.

That said, the display you describe sounds utterly tasteless to me. There's no accounting for taste, or lack thereof. But, it's their property, and they have every right to exercise bad taste on it. If diverting the kids' attention away, (the methods explained by Experiecned are spot on...she ought to write a parenting book) doesn't work, I'd simply make it a point to comment to my kids about how gauche the display was. It sounds right up there with drinking beer from the bottle in my book.

By the way, Christmas isn't over. Christmas isn't over until January 6. Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year! Best wishes to everybody for 2012.

[Crackedeggs]

For me, there was no avoidance with my daughter.. I would explain... I just tended to get annoyed that I had to address something with her before I'd really considered how I'd do it. I had some good ones, with the anti-abortion protestors we had to wade through one day, the couple in BDSM gear on a trendy shopping street in Philly one day ( Leash and collar.. boy that was fun LOL) and the girls that slobbered all over each other while titty groping in the 7-11 line at that same location - we had to go down there a lot for my job, I was a courier. I took her with me on that job because it was way cheaper than day care, but man, I had a lot of explaining to do I hadn't counted on at that young an age!

[valsa]

Don't want anyone teaching my kid hate... don't want anyone teaching my kid more, alternative style sex either. I've seen some alternate lifestyle parades - in person and in pictures - that are pretty risque. Keep it in the bedroom, folks. I don't want to see some 60 year old with his nuts hanging to his knees in a Body Modification Pride parade just because I took a wrong turn that day. Heather has Two Mommies is one thing... Mistress Heather from CSI is quite another.

I'm a bit incredulous about this. Where, exactly, were these supposed alternative lifestyle parades with graphic nudity in full view of randomly passing children?