Holiday question from a "Fundie"

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter of the gory halloween decor.

I didn't live next door to this display... But suppose I did. Suppose my next door neighbor had chopped feet hanging from their porch. What would be the best course of action if this display was causing problems/ nightmares for

My kids. I can't avoid it- its next door. Would i be able to ask the neighbor to remove that part of the display?

I don't mind halloween decor until they reach horror movie/blood-gore-guts level. one of my friends drove past a guillotine display. Very bloody. This kind of decor is what I would he concerned about.

If it's your neighbor, you should be able to to explain the situation to him, it's possible he can arrange the feet so they're a bit easier for your kids to tune them out, or you can do something on your side (put up your own decoration that blocks the feet from view in your yard, or whatever) but... if the neighbor is friendly too, he might be willing to work something out that won't require completely removing the feet.

Most of my local neighborhood strife happens over party noise, but most of the issues are when the person feeling aggrieved isn't willing to actually TALK to the house causing their problem. Person to person, things more easily work themselves out (often the party doesn't realize it's gotten so loud and will happily "reset" the volume lower, so it's got room to grow again, and on the complainer side, if dealing in person they're usually more tolerant then if it's some faceless "ZOMG college kids!!!" they're talking about in the abstract).

I stand by the NSFW lines, though - I agree you can't really police people's decor, but the idea that there's truly no lines ever is also not quite there, IMHO. On the other hand, most of the really disturbing decor by me is pretty easy to avoid because the decorators also know that, and so you have to be inside an establishment (so solution = don't patronize that shop the week of Halloween) or go up closer to the house to see details on house decor (solution=don't go up there). Dead bodies aren't all that large, AND are better appreciated (when you WANT that sort of thing) up close with extra details, anyway. Dead zombies on the porch = good compromise. Heck, carefully showing the kid how you made the dead zombies on the porch might help too.

I should add, I don't think it's possible to just ban NSFW things being seen from the yard, I just think that most people do recognize a line there and would be willing to make adjustments so people can avoid their stuff, if it was really way out there to the point where you cant help seeing it.

Abortion protesters are looking for confrontation, they're less likely to listen, but attempts to ban them would be more harmful than good for reasons already stated.

[Hisey]

Non-fundies are not all one big group. YOu are acting like they are.

I am not a fundamentalist Christian. I have no problem with Halloween. I also don't care whether someone says "Merry Xmas" and I can't imagine why "Happy Holidays" would ever be offensive.

I do think it's rude to put out decorations that would scare small children. Has nothing to do with religion. I just don't believe in scaring children.

"Liberal feminists" did not put out those bloody feel.Just one inconsiderate family (or perhaps some frat boys) who are thoughtless.

[Hisey]

In this hypothetical scenario I suppose you could ask your neighbor to remove the decorations while wearing a funny hat and turning cartwheels, there's nothing to stop you. Sure you can make a request of someone, but there's not much you can do if they say no. If you live in the United States this sort of thing is probably protected under the First Amendment and if people decline to cater to your wishes you're going to have to deal with it.

Like many other posters, I don't like to look at graphic, bloody, faked images of "abortions" but I don't want them outlawed. It's freedom of speech/expression.

The first Amendment protects your right to speak out against the government, Lissar. Has nothing to do with holiday decorations.

Perfectly OK to ask one's neighbor to remove the decorations. If she says no, I'd try to help my kids. I'd pick up the rubber foot, and show them how fake it is. I'd step on it a few times to show it is powerless. I'd show them the package in the store. I'd do whatever I could to normalize it. Or (in the case of really small kids) I'd just encourage them to look away when we passed by the scary house. Perhaps I'd hold them while we passed it.

This really has nothing to do with Halloween, let alone religiion. It is about getting along with people and good parenting.

[Guest Anonymous]

The first Amendment protects your right to speak out against the government, Lissar. Has nothing to do with holiday decorations.

You're absolutely right in regards to the first sentence, and wrong in regards to the second one.

The First Amendment allows me to put up (on my private property) all manner of things - flags, burning flags, nativity scenes, or severed rubber feet. As long as it isn't judged to be obscene, it's protected.

**ETA:

First Amendment protection is not limited to "pure speech" -- books, newspapers, leaflets, and rallies. It also protects "symbolic speech" -- nonverbal expression whose purpose is to communicate ideas. In its 1969 decision in Tinker v. Des Moines , the Court recognized the right of public school students to wear black armbands in protest of the Vietnam War. In 1989 ( Texas v. Johnson ) and again in 1990 ( U.S. v. Eichman ), the Court struck down government bans on "flag desecration." Other examples of protected symbolic speech include works of art, T-shirt slogans, political buttons, music lyrics and theatrical performances.

[donks]

Maybe you could employ the NIKE way of dealing with things you (and they) don't want to see. Call me a bitch or whatever, but I wouldn't take down any part of my yard haunt for anyone. Much less my haunted house.

If you don't want to look at it, don't.

I have to ask, who noticed the feet first, you or them?

And I still wanna see these oh-so-terrible gruesome feet.

Are they like this one:

If so, you need to know those are commonly available in season at Dollar Trees. They are hardly gruesome. Made of hard plastic, they really don't even look like a foot. I have used hands made like this from the Dollar Tree, but only as starting points. I heat and reshape them, and repaint, making them look better.

Items here are slightly better quality, I have various items from this store:

http://www.nightmarefactory.com/bodies. ... t-off-feet

And this is one of my 'homemade' props, a torso in a clear plastic bodybag.

Made entirely by me. I have friends who have made their own guillotines. I have made my own caskets and even a full-size (?) U.F.O. for my own yard haunt...

Be glad you aren't MY neighbor. ;)

[donks]

Going to work on my haunted house now... Hoping for a pic of the gruesome feet when I return...

[Witsec7]

Ah the severed feet. I do so love them and now that they've gotten so inexpensive I tend to keep one around just for shits and giggles. Back in the day, our pooch always had one to play with.

Great job on the torso Donks!!

At about the age of 4 my DD started helping us do the decorating for all Hallows eve, she enjoyed picking out plastic body parts and hanging all manner of skeleton on the 'hanging tree'. Folks that wear execution devices around their necks as a reminder of 'faith' shouldn't be so thin skinned about how others celebrate their holidays. Or be weenies about showing their kids plastic body parts are just that. What the hell do they do with their kids in the grocery store when they walk down the meat aisle??

edited for an addition

[emmiedahl]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :) I am at least glad to know I am not the only one who finds this unpleasant.

Is there anyone with thoughts on the second part of my question?

why do people not cause problems about something so R-rated fully visible to small kids, yet cause such a problem over religious differences during other Holidays?

thanks again to everyone taking the time to share your thoughts!

I think it is the fundies who make such a stir about religious differences during the winter holidays. For example, they are the ones saying "It's MERRY CHRISTMAS not xmas or happy holidays. CHRISTMAS. Recognize my holiday or LEAVE THE COUNTRY you anti-American bitch!" And I imagine they also have a problem with Halloween.

Personally, I don't care what holidays people celebrate, and I am not part of any movement to persecute people over their choice of greeting. Halloween celebrations are dealt with the same way: I don't really care what other people do, I have this awesome swiveling head that allows me to look away.

I get the feeling that you think we are intolerant of Christmas around here and want us to admit some sort of hypocrisy. If so, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[theologygeek]

So my question is, Would any one else be bothered by this? And why do people not cause problems about something so R-rated fully visible to small kids, yet cause such a problem over religious differences during other Holidays?

My youngest was terrified of the bathroom ceiling when he was little. He would go in the bathroom, look up, and break out into hysterics. I would just tell him not to look at it if it upset him. If I or my children felt uncomfortable about a gory Halloween display on someone's property, I'd follow the same rule. Don't like it, then don't look at it. No big deal.

[emmiedahl]

This whole argument is unproductive because it's so subjective. For instance, one of my boys was afraid of clowns. I understand that actually, a lot of children are afraid of clowns, and seeing clowns makes them have nightmares. Perhaps we should make rules about where clowns can be :roll:

What's incredibly tasteless to someone is incredibly funny/fun to someone else. We live in a free society and having to come across things we don't like or find tasteless or offensive is the price we pay in order to live in said free society. There actually is no right not to be offended.

It's been my experience that mostly, it's the adults that have problems with tasteless or risque displays, not the kids. If adults respond appropriately and help children put things into a logical context, then kids generally know how to "file" that away and move on. People just use the kids to hype up the hyperbole, as in "What about the children?!!!!111!!!"

Kids are afraid of weird random crap, and there is no way of making the adult world scare-free for them. My kids are all terrified of clowns also. It's a common phobia even among adults. We don't try to outlaw them, we just stay away from the circus. I have one child who is terrified of dogs. He would rather sleep in the scariest haunted house ever than walk past a chihuahua on a leash. And yet, dogs exist. What is the world coming to? :o

[theologygeek]

This whole argument is unproductive because it's so subjective. For instance, one of my boys was afraid of clowns. I understand that actually, a lot of children are afraid of clowns, and seeing clowns makes them have nightmares. Perhaps we should make rules about where clowns can be :roll:

I despised clowns when I was a child. I'm still not a fan of clowns, but I no longer have that hatred.

[Jezebel]

Is there anyone with thoughts on the second part of my question?

why do people not cause problems about something so R-rated fully visible to small kids, yet cause such a problem over religious differences during other Holidays?

Because the rare, isolated household that puts up gory decorations for Halloween is not demanding that everyone else do the same. It's simply an individual act, very likely carried out for no other reason than poor taste, a lapse in judgment, and a failure to consider other people's reactions.

The recent spate of bitching and moaning over "Happy Holidays" by some Christians, however, is not simply an individual act. It's a political one, carried out by a loosely-knit group of people who share the same view--and they hope to impose that view on American society as a whole. Those doing the complaining, and railing on about "CHRISTmas," do have a wider agenda. They demand that everyone--Christian or not--defer to their religious holiday, rather than accepting an an inclusive "Happy Holidays," in the same way they proclaim that America is a Christian nation. By declaring "Merry Christmas" as the default holiday greeting, they intend to reinforce the dominance of the Christian holiday, and push all non-Christians and their winter celebrations out to the margins (where, many such Christians believe, they belong).

The folks with the gross-out Halloween display? Their agenda is to have fun.

The Christians who get pissy at the inclusive "Happy Holidays" greeting? Their agenda is to assert Christian cultural and spiritual dominance over everyone--including non-Christians.

Honestly, I've yet to encounter any non-Christians who get annoyed at being wished a "Merry Christmas." Then again, I haven't asked any Muslims, orthodox Jews, Zen priests, Sikhs, or Hindus about this--but if they get annoyed? I think they're justified in that.

[Jezebel]

I despised clowns when I was a child. I'm still not a fan of clowns, but I no longer have that hatred.

To this day, my attitude toward clowns remains this: "If you dress like a pinata, you should expect to be treated like one." :twisted:

[theologygeek]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter of the gory halloween decor.

I didn't live next door to this display... But suppose I did. Suppose my next door neighbor had chopped feet hanging from their porch. What would be the best course of action if this display was causing problems/ nightmares for

My kids. I can't avoid it- its next door. Would i be able to ask the neighbor to remove that part of the display?

I don't mind halloween decor until they reach horror movie/blood-gore-guts level. one of my friends drove past a guillotine display. Very bloody. This kind of decor is what I would he concerned about.

Why are you asking the question in the first place when you don't even live next door to the person? It sounds like you're baiting. If there is a point you're trying to make, then spit it out.

[theologygeek]

"What would be the best course of action if this display was causing problems/ nightmares for

My kids."

This one doesn't even have kids. Another fundie freak.

[Boogalou]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this matter of the gory halloween decor.

I didn't live next door to this display... But suppose I did. Suppose my next door neighbor had chopped feet hanging from their porch. What would be the best course of action if this display was causing problems/ nightmares for

My kids. I can't avoid it- its next door. Would i be able to ask the neighbor to remove that part of the display?

I don't mind halloween decor until they reach horror movie/blood-gore-guts level. one of my friends drove past a guillotine display. Very bloody. This kind of decor is what I would he concerned about.

So this is basically a completely hypothetical question. So many things have to happen before this even becomes an issue:

1. You have to have relatively young kids (I cannot tell from your posts whether you have kids or not, it seems like you don't, but what do I know?)

2. They have to be very afraid of realistic and gory Halloween decorations

3. Those decorations have to be displayed by your next door neighbour

4. These decoartions must be completely unavoidable by either being right across the street from you or right next door with no way to avoid it by either being on a dead end street with only one way to get to your house or else in a rural area where approaching your house from another direction is highly inconvenient.

5. Nothing you would be able to say to or show your kids would be able to dispel their fear in any way

Honestly, this seems so unlikely and you just keep posting the same question again and again without really interacting with any other posters (which is not wrong, just strange). Do you have your own thoughts on the matter? And why are you asking about this? Is it affecting someone else you know? Is there something you want us to say? This is a very weird thread to me...

[theologygeek]

So this is basically a completely hypothetical question. So many things have to happen before this even becomes an issue:

1. You have to have relatively young kids (I cannot tell from your posts whether you have kids or not, it seems like you don't, but what do I know?)

2. They have to be very afraid of realistic and gory Halloween decorations

3. Those decorations have to be displayed by your next door neighbour

4. These decoartions must be completely unavoidable by either being right across the street from you or right next door with no way to avoid it by either being on a dead end street with only one way to get to your house or else in a rural area where approaching your house from another direction is highly inconvenient.

5. Nothing you would be able to say to or show your kids would be able to dispel their fear in any way

Honestly, this seems so unlikely and you just keep posting the same question again and again without really interacting with any other posters (which is not wrong, just strange). Do you have your own thoughts on the matter? And why are you asking about this? Is it affecting someone else you know? Is there something you want us to say? This is a very weird thread to me...

Search her posts. She posted on another thread that she doesn't have kids.

[Boogalou]

Hmm... the plot thickens. Such a hypothetical question would never cross my mind. And if it did I would not go post about it on the internet and insist people answer it. This is strange.

[JesusFightClub]

I don't love gore either, so I don't enjoy the realistic body part displays myself. Also, I'm pretty superstitious so I don't want to decorate in a way that will attract bad...things, human or otherwise. Which means I don't think fundie "hell houses" are a particularly good idea. Tempting fate, as it were. :o

THIS

I unfortunately have OCD, though a mild version, and my biggest trigger is doorways/gateways/entrances. If there were joke severed things I couldn't cross, because I would feel like I had made an illwishing (sad but true). As you say, meda, it feels like calling something bad to show up.

I definitely don't think anyone should not decorate or have fun. My issues are mine, not anyone else's. And I am far from easily grossed out (I have a collection of aftermath-of-car-bomb pictures...) it's just the combination of a doorway and what looks like ill luck...

*JFC slinks away into shadows, ashamed*

[emmiedahl]

I think we have answered it a few times over. We just did not give the answer that the OP wants.

srsly, she should come to my city. We have a huge Latino population (around 50%) and Day of the Dead is huge here. It can get pretty macabre, but I don't see a lot of scared children. It's all fun and games. Children love it.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Search her posts. She posted on another thread that she doesn't have kids.

So my take on this is that the OP was offended by Halloween decorations and needed to come up with some convoluted reasons to complain. Basically "Won't someone please think of teh childrenz?!"

[Terrie]

My youngest was terrified of the bathroom ceiling when he was little. He would go in the bathroom, look up, and break out into hysterics. I would just tell him not to look at it if it upset him. If I or my children felt uncomfortable about a gory Halloween display on someone's property, I'd follow the same rule. Don't like it, then don't look at it. No big deal.

I mentioned earlier that I was a hyper-sensitive kid. My mom always tried to deal with my issues like that, but it sadly never worked, because if I knew it was there, I didn't have to see it to get upset. Oddly, as an adult, gore might disgust me, but it doesn't frighten me at all. Same with most "scary" stuff. I watched The Thing with friends, and the only thing that upset me was the idea of those poor dogs being harmed...

[donks]

No pics of the deadly, gruesome feet. I haz a sad.

[Mama Mia]

Day of the Dead is a totally different vibe from Halloween though. It is a celebration and a chance to visit and honor those who have passed away. Halloween is more about grosser the better and being scary - not that there is anything wrong with that, just a very different purpose.

[valsa]

Day of the Dead is a totally different vibe from Halloween though. It is a celebration and a chance to visit and honor those who have passed away. Halloween is more about grosser the better and being scary - not that there is anything wrong with that, just a very different purpose.

Halloween was definitely a celebration when I was little. You get to dress up in a costume and get free fucking candy!!! You'd have to peel me off the ceilings just to go trick-or-treating because I was so excited.

Speaking of clowns- I knew I was afraid of them when I was little (mom let me watch IT when I was 4 and again when I was 6, despite the fact I had nightmares for months after the first time I saw it :roll: ) but I hadn't seen a clown since I was a kid so I thought I was over it. Cue a local Family Dollar's Opening Day Celebration- complete with a clown! Who made me hysterical. Completely by surprise. That was a fun day :oops: