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Botkin "morsels" courtesy of Dougie's downfall


Marian the Librarian

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The ever-elusive Botkins have attained a new level of radio silence in the months since Dougiegate. However, commenters on Jen's Gems have been including Geoff Botkin and his offspring in their speculations about Dougie's heir(s) apparent. I've gathered up a few interesting odds and ends from commenters who seem to be credible witnesses - conference attendees, wannabe church members, etc. Clan Botkin isn't looking so good these days...

Knoxville Gal Says:

December 10, 2013 at 9:28 am

This sounds very similar to what we experienced at the Botkin church in Middle TN. We went and must not have fit the “A list†so we weren’t welcome back. No one said for us not to come back but we didn’t feel at all welcome. Do most FIC function this way or just once closely connected to DP?

VFknowMORE Says:

December 13, 2013 at 9:42 am

We’ve seen the creepy Botkin behavior… never see the Botkin wife, but those two girls, who are stunning, are kept close like they are royalty.

Refugee Says:

December 21, 2013 at 11:16 am

It reminds me of when I began to question the VF message. We were watching a Botkin daughters video, I don’t know which one. They were talking about the adventure of being a woman. The adventure involved staying at home and doing research for their brother, who was in Egypt, I think, seeing the sights and filming. I had been uneasy about how good the VF teachings sounded and looked (from the outside, in leading families in our church who followed them), and yet how our family was showing more and more cracks, and how I felt a growing desperation and anxiety though nothing I did seemed to be helping. But in that moment, watching that video, the cognitive dissonance increased to the point where I could recognize it for what it was. The Botkin girls were telling me how wonderful and adventurous it was to stay at home and do research to support their brother’s real-life adventure, and all I could think was how cheated I would feel in the same situation, and how cheated I would feel on behalf of our daughters, and how cheated they would feel even if they tried to put a good face on it (which they did, for too long, trying to fit in at church and be accepted).

JPGR Says:

December 27, 2013 at 9:06 am

I really can’t stand Geoff Botkin, either…he basically aspires to be Doug Phillips and that sort of tells us all we need to know.

Just a shadow Says:

December 27, 2013 at 10:57 am

Agree JPGR. The most miserable women I know are those who are married to men who thump their chest about being godly patriarchs and who make their wives cower to some twisted view of “submission.†Yes, I know people personally who live this way. The husbands are power hungry weak greedy mean spirited men who treat their families like prisoners. And it is all justified (and submitted to) b/c of Patriarchy as taught by DP, Botkin (who reduced the wedding of one of his sons to a speech event since it is “wrong†to make the bride feel like a princess & the center of the show in his opinion), Gothard (the unmarrried childless expert), and others. The pics of that Botkin wedding represent one of the most misogynistic, mean spirited, crush-the-woman-at-all-costs- lest-she-forget-her-inferior-status events I’ve EVER seen.
 It is beyond sad.

Just a shadow Says:

December 27, 2013 at 2:26 pm

The Botkin wedding was most certainly a public matter. It was prominently placed on the Visionary Daughters website complete with Botkin’s explanation of why it is wrong/dangerous/unmanly/unbiblical/ to allow brides to be the center of attention at weddings (nay, brother the spotlight rightly belongs to the Patriarch and his speechifying), why wedding gowns promote a very dangerous “princess†mentality in brides (brides are only good for breeding, doncha know, and need to get back in their place), and why Patriarchs don’t need no stinking officiants to conduct a wedding. None of this is gossip. It was written, complete with pictures & accompanying editorializing, on their public website for all the world to see. It is not hearsay or even second hand info. It is straight from their blog and they were loud and proud about it. Not sure if it has been scrubbed now, but it was most certainly intended to be public, instructive, and imitated by others.

Bbb Says:

December 27, 2013 at 9:46 pm

I also want to go on record saying the Geoff Botkin treated my kid like crap when he got up the nerve to walk up and introduce himself. It just killed him. He had listened to all the Botkin film audio CDs and wanted to meet him. I guess paying $400 for the the academy was not enough to spend for direct access to the great GB. I also got weird looks from him in the lobby waiting around in my shorts and jeans. Shame on me. Oddly enough, Steven Kendrick – a much bigger name – welcomed my kid’s introduction and visited with him for half an hour. It made up for the Botkin creep. That guy looks plain evil.

Scott Says:

December 30, 2013 at 11:21 pm

I don’t see Scotty having the talent or charisma to pull it all off, or BEAM everyone up from the distruction of vision forum to the starship Integration. He is a dreadful speaker and about as affable as a rattle snake. Frankly along with Geoffro Botkin I find him to be a third string player at best. His son in law isn’t going to have the right stuff either. If he is smart he would find a new career path away from this nonsense of fixing all the churches of the world while he is still young. That being said it will be hilarious to watch Geoffro & Sir snotty Scotty compete for the sought after throne vacated by the Doug. It’s obvious they are already ramping things up to benefit personally from the collapse of VF.

One thing I would have to say about Doug is he knew how to market to a niche of people that were not real fast to question and compare his teachings to scripture. I don’t think that will happen again to this extent as people have been burned big time. From what I have seen Scott Brown and Mr. Botkin don’t have that great of understanding of God’s word. They have this way of sort of setting themselves out there as experts and talking in a way that seems authoritarian but when you really look deep, there is not much there. They exaggerate their self importance to such extent that it is hard not to be embarrassed for them. You are sitting there asking yourself who is falling for this crap.

Ask yourselves what has either of these guys ever done. I mean really, has Botkin even supported his family? I read of his foreclosure on another site, sad and pathetic. The guy is living off his kids' efforts. These patriarchal boobs don’t seem do to well leading much of anything, yet here they are to fix all our churches and families. No thank you Botkin & Brown. Go start an ice cream shop or something and leave the body of Christ alone. It has done well for thousands of years without you, it will be ok.

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I'm after the end of year newsletter and gallery...

anyone?

:popcorn2:

Me too. Someone on FJ has been on the Botkins' mailing list and posted their year-end missive in the past, but I haven't seen one yet this year. Time's running out!!!

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Funny how one of the posters said they'd never seen Mother Botkin. Her name is Victoria, and let's just say the girls don't get their good looks from HER.

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It's got to be a vulture fest over the VF roadkill. I'm sure eventually all the hunters and peckers (LOL!) will eventually be exposed over what's going on right now. We just have to be patient.

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I wonder if Geoff and Scott are having a behind the scene showdown over the corpse of Vision Forum?

Abso-freakin-lutly! Voddie is probably making his game plan as well.

All the VF-ilk that lurk her, it isn't about spreading the word of the big JC, it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$.

Did the downfall of Dougie not teach you that? Learn from your mistakes.....

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Thanks, Marian - you've performed a public service by rounding up these "gems."

The way these patri-arses are circling VF's corpse for maximum pickings while carefully calibrating their responses (or lack thereof) to the demise-and-fall, is so transparent.

One can only hope that Dougie is watching all of this, just as Scrooge had to see the ragpickers going through his belongings on a future Christmas.

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Mmmm... Them's some tasty morsels, woman! (Sorry, I've been in the Phil Robertson threads too long)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Anyone have a link to the Botkin wedding? I have only been around a few months and have not heard about it. TIA!

Yep - here's the engagement announcement: visionarydaughters.com/2011/04

And here's the wedding: visionarydaughters.com/2011/05

And, the wedding feast: visionarydaughters.com/2011/06

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Yep - here's the engagement announcement: visionarydaughters.com/2011/04

And here's the wedding: visionarydaughters.com/2011/05

And, the wedding feast: visionarydaughters.com/2011/06

Marian, you are SUCH a good librarian!

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Marian, you are SUCH a good librarian!

Shucks - thanks. It's just a bit of detective work...it keeps me off the streets and out of trouble! :lol:

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It's got to be a vulture fest over the VF roadkill. I'm sure eventually all the hunters and peckers (LOL!) will eventually be exposed over what's going on right now. We just have to be patient.

The vultures may be circling, but I doubt they'll have anything to find. Many of the posters on Jen's Gems seem done with patriarchy even though they're still Fundies. They'll probably move onto the next Christain fad, get burned by that, and repeat the process again.

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Me too. Someone on FJ has been on the Botkins' mailing list and posted their year-end missive in the past, but I haven't seen one yet this year. Time's running out!!!

I used to get it, but I haven't received one this year (or last year, actually). I don't know if they have stopped sending it or they're on to me. :think:

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Marian, you are SUCH a good librarian!

Thank you, Marian, for sacrificing brain cells on our behalf by reading Jen's Gems. I gave up weeks ago.

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Yep - here's the engagement announcement: visionarydaughters.com/2011/04

And here's the wedding: visionarydaughters.com/2011/05

And, the wedding feast: visionarydaughters.com/2011/06

Those vows make me want to puke. :ew:

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There's so little of Nadia in all that. She's almost an afterthought.

Geoff's huge ego left no room for the bride.

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Geoff's huge ego left no room for the bride.

I was thinking it was all about David. What he wanted from a wife, what he saw in Nadia, what he felt about marriage, what he wanted in a wedding - we only hear from Nadia in the vows, and that's a lot about David.

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Thank you, Marian, for sacrificing brain cells on our behalf by reading Jen's Gems. I gave up weeks ago.

You're welcome! Here's a handy research tip - there's no need to read through everything on Jen's Gems. Use your computer's search function (it's command F on a Macbook), and enter whatever you're looking for in a post or comments page. Scroll through by hitting Enter, and it should highlight every "Botkin" or "Scott Brown" or whatever it is you're wanting to zero in on. Saves tons o' time and aggravation!

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Man. I would hope that anyone planning to use their own wedding as an opportunity to lecture the attendees would make that clear in the invitation so people have a chance to politely decline...

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Man. I would hope that anyone planning to use their own wedding as an opportunity to lecture the attendees would make that clear in the invitation so people have a chance to politely decline...

My cousin's fundie wedding at a KJV only church was like this with the pastor lecturing everybody and especially the women. I think we would have all liked to decline but then again, it was a family member so we were stuck sitting through it.

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