Botkin "morsels" courtesy of Dougie's downfall

[karismanic]

A friend of mine accidently stumbled into a fundie wedding this fall. From all outward appearances (and the invitation) it was to be a normal wedding -- at a hotel, alcohol, dancing. But the ceremony started off with a 20-minute sermon from the groom, then the bride and groom washing each other's feet (!!!). It concluded with a climatic first-ever kiss -- and no one had realized they hadn't kissed. (From my friend's account, it was face-sucking, all-tounge, and lasted much too long.)

I don't know the couple, but a fundie wedding was not what I'd expect from an ivy-league graduate groom and med student bride.

[karismanic]

Thanks, Marian, for the link. Such a shame to have to wear a plain, old cardigan over one's wedding gown, too. With marriage being the ultimate life goal, surely Nadia could have had more sway. I hope the Botkinettes just made the blog entry more focused on their bro, and Nadia was actually okay with the arrangements.

[WonderingInWA]

A friend of mine accidently stumbled into a fundie wedding this fall. From all outward appearances (and the invitation) it was to be a normal wedding -- at a hotel, alcohol, dancing. But the ceremony started off with a 20-minute sermon from the groom, then the bride and groom washing each other's feet (!!!). It concluded with a climatic first-ever kiss -- and no one had realized they hadn't kissed. (From my friend's account, it was face-sucking, all-tounge, and lasted much too long.)

I don't know the couple, but a fundie wedding was not what I'd expect from an ivy-league graduate groom and med student bride.

They washed each other's feet? Gawd, save that for the wedding night! I did hear of another fundie couple that did that at their reception. It just sounds stupid.

[Coconut Flan]

It's astounding the lengths some of these ultraconservative religious types will go to out religion each other. I've known several in my life and I believe for a lot of them and their pastors that's all it is. You don't celebrate Halloween? Well then WE'LL give up Santa and Christmas. That sweater over the wedding dress was rather tacky. How modest can she be though when they took photos without the sweater?

[WonderingInWA]

I'd forgotten what a weird sweater-set dress that was that Nadia wore. The neckline was oddly shaped -- it sort of swagged on her left side but not the right, and then she covered it all up with a sweater anyway, so what was the point? And then in the photos of them on the stage, it would appear she was wearing black boots under it all. Please tell me I'm wrong.

[anjulibai]

I think the sweater was for warmth - everyone was dressed for cool weather.

[nelliebelle1197]

They washed each other's feet? Gawd, save that for the wedding night! I did hear of another fundie couple that did that at their reception. It just sounds stupid.

One of the Mortons did that. Surprisingly, she did not dry them with her hair.

I just noticed Olivia from Fresh Modesty was at that wedding. Did her family relocate to TN to be near the Botkins?

[lemonhead]

And then in the photos of them on the stage, it would appear she was wearing black boots under it all. Please tell me I'm wrong.

No, she really did wear black boots :(

I felt stifled in my SBC wedding (long story; wish we had eloped), but at least I wore white heels. If this was the Best Day of Her Life , then how incredibly sad this must have been for her. I wonder if she will 1) displace her resentment and frustration as an oppressed person onto her quiverfull of children or 2) "keep sweet" until death do they part or 3) abandon the faith entirely and finally find herself as a real person outside of the prescriptive roles imposed upon her by the men in her life...or some combination thereof.

I am so glad to be out of a hideously spiritually abusive system. I hope that the internet age--or whatever the young whippersnappers are calling it these days--facilitates the freedom of the enslaved.

[lost_not_found]

Olivia bugs me so much. She has such a love for herself, and her blog is nauseating. Why do I check it weekly? I've never seen such self-involvement parading as modesty.

That wedding was heinous. The armchairs on stage-- like the audience was a party to this intimate family event. My my my they are legends in their own minds!

[nelliebelle1197]

Olivia bugs me so much. She has such a love for herself, and her blog is nauseating. Why do I check it weekly? I've never seen such self-involvement parading as modesty.

That wedding was heinous. The armchairs on stage-- like the audience was a party to this intimate family event. My my my they are legends in their own minds!

AMEN to the whole comment. And Olivia's clothes are not cute.

[EmiGirl]

No, she really did wear black boots :(

I felt stifled in my SBC wedding (long story; wish we had eloped), but at least I wore white heels. If this was the Best Day of Her Life , then how incredibly sad this must have been for her. I wonder if she will 1) displace her resentment and frustration as an oppressed person onto her quiverfull of children or 2) "keep sweet" until death do they part or 3) abandon the faith entirely and finally find herself as a real person outside of the prescriptive roles imposed upon her by the men in her life...or some combination thereof.

I am so glad to be out of a hideously spiritually abusive system. I hope that the internet age--or whatever the young whippersnappers are calling it these days--facilitates the freedom of the enslaved.

My wedding was SBC too! I wore Christmas socks with reindeer on them. I also told both of the ministers that if I even heard them start to say submit or obey my happy rear was walking out the side door near the front of the sanctuary in front of God and everybody because I obey and submit to God alone. The funny thing is that one of them (my husband's pastor at the time) almost did until I gave him "the look" right in the middle of the ceremony. He got the idea and stopped in his tracks and switched to a different Bible verse.

Most fundies really annoy me because they do think they're so much better than everyone else. The Duggar girls were awful when I met them.

[RosyDaisy]

Geoff Botkin needs to read Matthew 19:14:

“Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.â€

Jesus didn't turn children away. So, just who does GB think he is by turning away that little boy? (rhetorical question)

[lemonhead]

My wedding was SBC too! I wore Christmas socks with reindeer on them. I also told both of the ministers that if I even heard them start to say submit or obey my happy rear was walking out the side door near the front of the sanctuary in front of God and everybody because I obey and submit to God alone. The funny thing is that one of them (my husband's pastor at the time) almost did until I gave him "the look" right in the middle of the ceremony. He got the idea and stopped in his tracks and switched to a different Bible verse.

Lol. I also refused to promise to "obey" my husband-to-be, and I refused to let my father give me away, because he clearly did not own me.

It just went downhill from there :)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think the sweater was for warmth - everyone was dressed for cool weather.

Yep - not only was that wedding all about sitting through endless lectures, but it was about sitting through endless lectures in CHILLY DAMP WEATHER. In seats. In a venue completely open to the outside with no walls. You can't even sorta wander around to get your blood pumping a bit (though I suppose depending on the content of the sermon that might be enough, ha :))

[Janes Heir]

I was thinking it was all about David. What he wanted from a wife, what he saw in Nadia, what he felt about marriage, what he wanted in a wedding - we only hear from Nadia in the vows, and that's a lot about David.

He was even on his laptop during the ceremony! (6th photo) So classy.

[Tdoc72]

Most fundies really annoy me because they do think they're so much better than everyone else. The Duggar girls were awful when I met them.

Ooh...will you dish on the Duggars? Or is there a link to a post where you have described the meeting? TIA

[galaxy]

They washed each other's feet? Gawd, save that for the wedding night! I did hear of another fundie couple that did that at their reception. It just sounds stupid.

The foot washing was a fundie-light wedding trend thing a few years back when I got married. Our wedding photographers were fundie-light (as many professional photographers seem to be) and many of their friends weddings that they posted on their blog featured foot washing during the ceremony. I did not get the point at all, and my parents (lifelong Catholics, very unfamiliar with fundie-esque traditions) were mildly horrified when they saw pictures of it on their blog. :lol:

[ThatSnark]

Bleh, that wedding! Can you imagine getting a fundie royalty wedding invite, squeeing over getting to go to such a "prestigious" event, and finding out you had to work the food line?? :shock: I understand wanting/needing to save money, but these people don't have to and could have hired caterers so that ALL their guests could be guests and enjoy themselves.

Everyone looks cold and windblown at the reception picnic. Nice job, Botkins.

[Cleopatra7]

No, she really did wear black boots :(

I felt stifled in my SBC wedding (long story; wish we had eloped), but at least I wore white heels. If this was the Best Day of Her Life , then how incredibly sad this must have been for her. I wonder if she will 1) displace her resentment and frustration as an oppressed person onto her quiverfull of children or 2) "keep sweet" until death do they part or 3) abandon the faith entirely and finally find herself as a real person outside of the prescriptive roles imposed upon her by the men in her life...or some combination thereof.

I am so glad to be out of a hideously spiritually abusive system. I hope that the internet age--or whatever the young whippersnappers are calling it these days--facilitates the freedom of the enslaved.

I'm not confident. The ideas that would debunk fundementalist religion have been around for more than 200 years. Public libraries have books about comparative religion, debunking miracles, the historical Jesus, atheism, liberalism, etc. The information has always been out there in different forms, but the fundies create a bubble to ensure that their people not only never have a desire to leave, but wouldn't know how to process the information if they encountered it. I think many fundie families either don't have computers (especially the homesteading types) or have very strong filters to prevent their kids (or their spouses) from looking up forbidden information.

[DomWackTroll]

Olivia bugs me so much. She has such a love for herself, and her blog is nauseating. Why do I check it weekly? I've never seen such self-involvement parading as modesty.

That wedding was heinous. The armchairs on stage-- like the audience was a party to this intimate family event. My my my they are legends in their own minds!

Yes, one would think it was CS Lewis, exhorting the British people to be brave during the bombings of WWII. I'm only surprised that Geoff wasn't smoking a pipe.

[nokidsmom]

Bleh, that wedding! Can you imagine getting a fundie royalty wedding invite, squeeing over getting to go to such a "prestigious" event, and finding out you had to work the food line?? :shock: I understand wanting/needing to save money, but these people don't have to and could have hired caterers so that ALL their guests could be guests and enjoy themselves.

Everyone looks cold and windblown at the reception picnic. Nice job, Botkins.

I had looked at those pics before but had to go back and check them out again. It did look pretty cold and miserable. And making your guests work the food line is beyond tacky.

Also the armchairs at the ceremony looked weird as if it was a fireside chat lecture rather than a wedding.

Nadia's dress without the sweater was very pretty. The sweater rather ruined things, too bad she didn't have either a dress more suited to the weather or a different cover up.

[salex]

I'd forgotten what a weird sweater-set dress that was that Nadia wore. The neckline was oddly shaped -- it sort of swagged on her left side but not the right, and then she covered it all up with a sweater anyway, so what was the point? And then in the photos of them on the stage, it would appear she was wearing black boots under it all. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Looked like black cowboy boots to me.

I figure she knew the BS would be flowing deep across that stage, and she'd need boots.

[uber frau]

Looked like black cowboy boots to me.

I figure she knew the BS would be flowing deep across that stage, and she'd need boots.

She'd be moving into a whole family of BS. She doesn't need boots, she needs a Search and Rescue helicopter. Or maybe Doug can spare a spot on a lifeboat from the Titanic.

Did they really 'volunteer' their guests to work in the food line, or was it agreed beforehand? (It was fairly common for teenage girls and unmarried woman to help in food lines at Fundie weddings when I was growing up, but it was always arranged well before the wedding.)

Nadia's dress without the sweater was very pretty. The sweater rather ruined things, too bad she didn't have either a dress more suited to the weather or a different cover up.

I think it was a May wedding that ended up having unseasonal wedding. The event was planned as an early summer picnic but it ended up having weather like early spring.

[debrand]

From what I understand, foot washing was to clean the dirt off someone's feet in a dry, desert region. and was usually done by servants or the women of the house. In a society with a more hierarchical structure, it must have been extraordinary for Jesus to wash his disciples feet and explains Peter's alarm when he did so.

In marriage, it is expected that a couple support one another and take care of each other. There is no need for an extra ceremony to show people that you will do what all good married people do. When I bring my husband a cup of coffee or he makes my plate, we are not being servants to one another. We are showing love in ways that we have decided express that emotion for us To me, foot washing during a wedding ceremony dilutes what Jesus meant. Also, Jesus washed the disciples but they didn't wash his feet in return.

[mnwnwmwmn]

Botkin treats his family members as potential cash cows and servants. If it wasn't for the soul-crushing way in which he treats his family, he would be hilarious.

I don't understand why no one in fundie-land can see through his bullshit. Botkin claims to have been a medical student, washington lobbyist, political advisor to senators and royalty, CEO of a multi-billion dollar company, Hollywood film director who has been to the Oscars, christian record producer, painter, ice sculptor, scientist, marxist persecutor of christians, and oh yeah, a duck biologist. He'd have to be like 175 years old for any of this to even be possible. Whatever Doug's faults, he's not stupid or naive. How he couldn't pick up on this BS boggles my mind.

Geoff Botkin's Resume: Translated to English from Blatherese.

Medical Student - Took freshman chem and participated in the free CPR course they offered at the student union.

Washington Lobbyist - Took a David Barton led tour through the capitol building.

Political advisor to senators and royalty - Ran into a congressional page on said tour. Handed him a religious tract.

CEO of a billion dollar corporation - was entrusted to be a night closer at the McDonalds he worked at during "medical school"

Hollywood Film Director - Dropped out of college, joined a cult, produced an infomercial for said cult that ran at 3 am on the local public access station.

Record Producer - You should hear some of the sick beats he drops with Ben when they're taking dominion over Garage Band.

Painter - Hey, that paint by numbers shit takes more talent than you would think.

Ice Sculptor - Watched that scene in Groundhog Day. Thought it may help him score chicks.

Scientist - See "medical student"

Marxist Persecutor of Christians - Wrote a book report on The Communist Manifesto. Compared profound observations with Jasmine Baucham.

Duck Biologist - Come on, Google search optimization. This has got to move me up in the rankings a bit.