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formergothardite

Why Bill Likes Pretty Teen Girls

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Meh
formergothardite

Gothard had released another article defending his stance of focusing on pretty teen girls. Alfred from Discovering Grace posted it for him. 

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When I was about seven years old, an incident took place that impacted my whole life. My mother was sitting at the kitchen table and asked me to come over to her. She had a serious look on her face as she said, “Billy, do you know what your name means?” I answered, “No.” she replied, “Your name means ‘protector’”. That is all she said. That is all she needed to say. From that moment on I purposed to live up to the meaning of my name

So his mother, out of the blue, called little Bill over and just said "your name means protector" and that was it? We are supposed to believe that story?

 

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A few years later, my very attractive sister asked me to walk with her to school. As we walked, she said to me,“You are a strong protector! I am glad you are my brother.” Her comment reinforced my determination to be a protector.

Why does it matter if his sister was attractive except to set the stage to explain that from a young age he had to protect attractive girls? And the dialogue reads like a Moody book. That conversation didn't happen that way. And he had more than one sister. Was the other sister less attractive?

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When I entered high school, I went on an outing with a group of other high-schoolers. I climbed in the back seat and found myself sitting next to a girl I had never met before. During the ride she made a statement to me that stunned me. She said, “You can do anything you want to with me.” My first thought was, “No I can’t! I am a protector!” We rode in silence for the rest of the trip and I never saw her again.

Weird that I don't ever remember hearing this story before. You would think that in all the talks he has given about his highschool years he would have brought up this. 

 

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I was only about 13 years old and getting ready to begin high school. During one of the sessions, several wives began to weep. When they were asked what the problem was they answered, “We are bitter over our role as wives of youth leaders. We do not want this way of life.”

Why was a 13 year old teen in a session where youth leader wives were discussing the difficulties of their position?

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During my Freshman year in high school, I stopped in at the corner drug store. As I passed the magazine rack, I noticed that they were featuring the first Playboy magazine. I still remember the sadness I felt as I realized the moral ruination that would come to millions of people. Suddenly, the thought came to me, “What if you were interviewed some day on a national TV program and they asked you if you ever looked inside of a Playboy magazine?” Right there I vowed that I would never look inside of one. God has also given the grace to keep this vow. This led to related vows such as not owning a TV or turning one on in a hotel room and never touching a girl immorally.

Oh yes, Bill must remind us he is as pure as the driven snow. 

He leaps forward in time to his years giving conferences and to justifying how he only paid attention to pretty teens. 

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Often, I would notice a very attractive young lady. When it was her turn to speak, she would usually say, “I am in trouble and I don’t know what to do.” She would explain that she and her boyfriend had gone too far and now she was going to have a child. Her parents did not know about it.

 

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I remembered the meaning of my name. I also realized that attractive girls are prime targets for evil men and for Satan. He knows how effective they can be for His kingdom. Sarah, Rachel, Rebekah, Esther and other world-changers were all attractive women.  I purposed to do whatever I could to protect them from corrupting influences

See it was good he made pretty teen girls his focus! He was doing God's work!

He now gets to the point where he is taking ATI students to Russia. The entire thing is essentially admitting he skipped unattractive teens and elevated attractive ones. There seems to be no awareness that his actions would hurt those he deemed not pretty enough. By saying he only protected pretty teens he then became the person who hurt teenagers who didn't live up to his beauty standards. 

One of the people from Russia supposedly said

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, “When I saw those young people I could not decide if they were human beings or angels. I decided that they were somewhere in-between.”

 

A Russian leader of education refused to meet with ATI students because she said she wasn't impressed by American school students but then this happened. 

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. I watched her as she cracked open the door and saw the 300 radiant young people. She said to her assistant, “Cancel all my appointments.” She then walked up to the stage, picked up the microphone and said, “What I see here is what I want all my students to look like, and I will do whatever it takes to see that it happens!”

      I experienced the same results in New Zealand, Taiwan, Romania and many other nations. I was on a continual search for outstanding young people who could open up nations to the gospel. The leaders would say to me, “We are impressed with your young people but especially the young ladies. Their dedication to the Lord confirms to us that you have an effective message.”

This is really disturbing. Gothard made the entire focus superficial appearances. 

Then Gothard moves on to explaining that fathers sent their attractive teen daughters to him.

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 The majority of young ladies came in response to an appeal by their fathers. The fathers would often explain that they had an attractive daughter, and she was being drawn to the wrong kind of fellows. 

He concludes that he paid extra attention to the pretty teens because they needed it, not because he is a creepy man who like to surround himself with sheltered, attractive teen girls. 

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They needed periodic affirmation that they were valuable. Any extra attention I gave to them was for this purpose.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2018/08/28/why-i-dedicated-my-life-to-serve-youth-and-their-families/

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treehugger

What a disgusting creep. I'm always extra leery of men who like to think of themselves as "protectors" (it was a commmon theme in many of the conservative churches I've been to). They tend to be the most pervy men I know. Always had sex on the brain. 

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AmazonGrace

Because creepy old men aren't getting enough credit.

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marmalade

Disgusting old maggot.

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AmazonGrace
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Suddenly, the thought came to me, “What if you were interviewed some day on a national TV program and they asked you if you ever looked inside of a Playboy magazine?

I think usually people of faith would say what if you had to have a chat with God about this... but it totally makes sense for him to be concerned about his image on TV. 

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Waffle Time
mango_fandango

Bleurgh.

I cannot ever imagine telling my brother that he's a strong protector. (His name isn't William, it's the same name as our Antlered Saviour. Which is funny, since Rufus means red-haired... and I'm the redhead sibling! :pb_lol: He's got dark brown hair like my parents.) And I cannot ever imagine him describing me as "very attractive", not because he thinks I'm ugly or anything, but because that is a gross way to describe YOUR SISTER. (Or brother for that matter).

What a disgusting perv.

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samurai_sarah
16 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

(snip)

So his mother, out of the blue, called little Bill over and just said "your name means protector" and that was it? We are supposed to believe that story? (snip)

 

(Not against you FG, just...)

Yeah, well, I learned as a kid that my names mean stuff tood. Oddly enough, I have so far managed to go around NOT abusing anyone. And I haven't started a cult. So far... *insert evil laugh*

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Waffle Time
PumaLover

Snip–

"The majority of young ladies came in response to an appeal by their fathers. The fathers would often explain that they had an attractive daughter, and she was being drawn to the wrong kind of fellows. "

"They needed periodic affirmation that they were valuable. Any extra attention I gave to them was for this purpose."

Ew! Ew ew ew! I always knew Gothard was creepy and all of the quotes are disturbing but these two really bothered me. This is the guy who never got married, right?? I'm wondering why he didn't take up one of these pretty teen girls he goes on and on about.

Actually doing a Google search for Gothard is what led me to FJ. So if nothing else, thanks for that Gothard you old creep.

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Meh
formergothardite
13 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

(Not against you FG, just...)

Yeah, well, I learned as a kid that my names mean stuff tood. Oddly enough, I have so far managed to go around NOT abusing anyone. And I haven't started a cult. So far... *insert evil laugh*

I learned what my name meant too, but it wasn't an event where my mom out of the blue said "your name means this" and didn't say anything else. With me it was a discussion on why she chose my name. To just say "Bill come here, your name means protector" with no context  or anything else just sounds weird to me. I think it is more likely Bill asked what his name meant and his mom said protector. 

12 minutes ago, PumaLover said:

This is the guy who never got married, right?? I'm wondering why he didn't take up one of these pretty teen girls he goes on and on about.

He never did. Some of the stories claim he led a couple of the young teens sent to him into believing he was considering marrying them. Bill isn't the sort of a guy who wants to settle down and raise a family. He liked the fun of having teens girls all around him, having to obey him, but he wasn't going to marry.

To add an extra creepy level to this, the person who published it, Alfred, admits Gothard passed over his less attractive, but qualified daughter to promote his prettier daughter to a job.  Alfred is okay with his daughters being treated like this because he said it was only natural that Gothard likes to be in the company of more attractive girls. 

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Wine time!
nokidsmom
32 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

How far up your own ass do you have to be before THIS starts sounding like not just a good idea to publish, but an actual, viable defense of your conduct?  

Indeed.  How in hell does Billy Boy think that publicly defending his preferences was in any way wise.   And Alfred, too, in publishing it?  Just WTF?

 

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

He never did. Some of the stories claim he led a couple of the young teens sent to him into believing he was considering marrying them. Bill isn't the sort of a guy who wants to settle down and raise a family. He liked the fun of having teens girls all around him, having to obey him, but he wasn't going to marry.

If you read the stories from the girls who thought he would marry them, it's pretty pathetic how they believed him and got pretty caught up in it emotionally.

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JermajestyDuggar

Jesus Christ on a cracker!!!! Being hurt or assaulted has nothing to do with a person’s attractiveness!!! Wow I hate this disgusting old man that has HURT so many girls he was supposed to protect. 

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AmazonGrace
46 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Bleurgh.

I cannot ever imagine telling my brother that he's a strong protector. (His name isn't William, it's the same name as our Antlered Saviour. Which is funny, since Rufus means red-haired... and I'm the redhead sibling! :pb_lol: He's got dark brown hair like my parents.) And I cannot ever imagine him describing me as "very attractive", not because he thinks I'm ugly or anything, but because that is a gross way to describe YOUR SISTER. (Or brother for that matter).

What a disgusting perv.

Come here Bill, your name means strong protector, and I'm telling you this in the hopes that it will make you stop peeping on your sisters.

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Meh
formergothardite

He had a part one about this. I thought the first part was letter he wrote a year or so ago that we had already discussed, but no, it is one written this summer.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2018/08/28/bill-and-the-beautiful-ones/

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Bill believes that external factors, such as dress, affect us far more deeply than we realize. As a result he is most particular about carpet colors and light fixtures, hair styles and accessories such as earrings, sashes and so forth.  When he bought a building there would be significant renovation done, say to add a steeple, redo the shrubbery, special drapes.  When formal pictures were taken he would sometimes have them photoshopped, say to add more trees, for a certain effect.  It is well-known that he colors his hair and is never seen outside a suit with a white shirt, focusing on aspects that he believes are objectively able to make what he does and teaches much better received

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Is it possible that the beauty that God gives outwardly is in fact given as a token, a sign, a gift that this one is chosen for something special in God’s public affairs?

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Moses parents perceived, had the faith to believe, that Moses was destined for public “in-the-city” greatness solely based on his beautiful appearance.  It becomes quite clear, then, that God does give outward beauty for very specific reasons.

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Are we identifying the “princes” and “princesses” early enough where we can do what needs to be done so that they will be successful in their calling?  Bill didn’t think so.

Bill claims that he had to focus on the pretty ones because being more attractive means that God wants you to be a leader and that the attractive ones should be identified and receive special attention early on. 

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He related to us that at the moment he purposed to make that a special project, learning how to be effective in preparing those young women destined for public service so they would be ready when their time came. And that, of necessity, involved learning how to counsel the “beautiful children”.

Bill’s purposes in noticing and selecting the most “urbane” of those that came by him for special training has been for a very deliberate, godly purpose. There was a reason, and it has certainly not always been understood.

Being not pretty is a sign God wants you in the background. 

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Just like outward beauty is a sign of a special calling – or at least of the public aspect of it – so a blemish may be an indication that such a ministry – again public – may be limited by God’s own purpose and mark.

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 However, in a day where the concept of any objective standard of beauty and even skill is discouraged in favor of “making everyone feel good about themselves” – participation trophies and all –  it appears that the Lord is still intent on a times separating us to varying purposes through the design He has placed in our bodies.

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Bill tapped the princes and princesses to stand in the “court” of national exposure that IBLP became, and the young women were definitely the brightest and most effective part. There definitely was an extra emphasis on attractive young ladies – many hours of counseling – and as a result many major doors of opportunity have been opened over the decades solely because world leaders were so impressed with them.  

He wasn't playing footsie! He was just tapping the feet to encourage them!

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So, to him, tapping a young lady’s foot with his was a safe way to express affirmation, or to get their attention during a working session, same as when he did so with a young man.  To hold a young woman’s hand in both of his as he spoke to her heart, sitting next to her, was every bit of a father coming out of him, seeking to bless her and let her know she was important.

The problem with churches is that they haven't focused on elevating the pretty people

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So perhaps we can get past surface concerns and seriously consider some of the reasons why a ministry such as Bill has had to beautiful people, especially the lovely young women, is not a joke but a vital, consequential and largely neglected purpose in the church in these last days.

 

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AmazonGrace

Ugh well no wonder the world is going to **** if world leaders are impressed by a cult simply because there are pretty people in it.

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quiversR4hunting
59 minutes ago, PumaLover said:

Ew! Ew ew ew! I always knew Gothard was creepy and all of the quotes are disturbing but these two really bothered me. This is the guy who never got married, right?? I'm wondering why he didn't take up one of these pretty teen girls he goes on and on about.

This reminds me so much of Hugh Hefner (even though he married several different women). Hugh was always trading in girls for a younger model. He was only married 3 times - Mildred (age 23 at marriage and divorced at 33), Kimberly Conrad (age 27 at marriage, 48 at divorce) and then Crystal (26 at marriage and was 31 when Hef died). But all the partners between the marriages were always younger than the previous spouse/partner.

Gothard is the same thing- always a new batch of young girls to look at and groom. :puke-front:

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Georgiana
7 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

This reminds me so much of Hugh Hefner (even though he married several different women). Hugh was always trading in girls for a younger model. He was only married 3 times - Mildred (age 23 at marriage and divorced at 33), Kimberly Conrad (age 27 at marriage, 48 at divorce) and then Crystal (26 at marriage and was 31 when Hef died). But all the partners between the marriages were always younger than the previous spouse/partner.

Gothard is the same thing- always a new batch of young girls to look at and groom. :puke-front:

Have you ever read Holly Madison's book about her time as Hef's #1 girl?  It's NOT the most well written memoir you will ever read, but the subject matter, IMO, is interesting enough to keep you invested.  It's interesting to get an inside look on how men like Gothard and Hef function behind closed doors.  

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quiversR4hunting
8 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Have you ever read Holly Madison's book about her time as Hef's #1 girl?  It's NOT the most well written memoir you will ever read, but the subject matter, IMO, is interesting enough to keep you invested.  It's interesting to get an inside look on how men like Gothard and Hef function behind closed doors.  

I haven't. I have thought about it but haven't pulled the trigger to see if it is in the library. It isn't one that I want to buy!

I remember reading excerpts when it came out and basically Hef was a hoarder. When looking up his marriages (on Wikipedia - take it for the source) - Mildred apparently cheated on Hef while he was at war and according to Wiki she then allowed him to date while married to make up for her indiscretion...I find this suspicious. I assume the Wiki page is kept up-to-date by the Hef clan so I am sure they would write something to make Hef look like the better of the two. BTW - Mildred is still alive :)

For example here is a quote by Hef.

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Hefner told Daily Mail: “I had literally saved myself for my wife, but after we had sex she told me that she’d had an affair. That was the most devastating moment in my life. My wife was more sexually experienced than I was. After that, I always felt in a sense that the other guy was in bed with us, too.”

The quote is as bad as these fundie guys that are all into women's  purity.

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Georgiana
5 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I haven't. I have thought about it but haven't pulled the trigger to see if it is in the library. It isn't one that I want to buy!

I remember reading excerpts when it came out and basically Hef was a hoarder. When looking up his marriages (on Wikipedia - take it for the source) - Mildred apparently cheated on Hef while he was at war and according to Wiki she then allowed him to date while married to make up for her indiscretion...I find this suspicious. I assume the Wiki page is kept up-to-date by the Hef clan so I am sure they would write something to make Hef look like the better of the two. BTW - Mildred is still alive :)

For example here is a quote by Hef.

The quote is as bad as these fundie guys that are all into women's  purity.

The affair is certainly part of the official storyline.  I've seen it cited in numerous profiles on Hef and Playboy (I was in my teens/early 20s when Playboy/Hef became "a thing" again), so if it wasn't true, Mildred for her own reasons was never interested in correcting it.  Which I would understand.  It sort of saves face if she is seen to "allow" it rather than admit she had no real recourse and was forced to endure public humiliation of her husband creating this empire while married to her.  But it could also be based in truth.  Many infidelities do happen when one party is away for a long period of time, and Mildred was young and had her own needs, both emotional and physical.  She certainly wouldn't have been the only woman to be unfaithful to a partner she wasn't sure would return home.

And yeah, the whole house was pretty disgusting to hear Madison tell it, both physically and in terms of the behavior that was encouraged there.  It looked glamorous to a young me obsessed with Girls Next Door, but it really was nothing more than a gilded turd.  Adult me was saddened to learn that many of the architecturally significant details of the house may have been damaged by the sheer neglect Hefner turned towards the mansion.  

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Pecansforeveryone

Holly's book is def worth perusing. I wouldn't recommend buying it. Hugh controlled what she wore and where she could go.  When she left, Hugh blubbered to the media she was the love of his life. However, Holly doesn't give any indication Hugh loved or cared for her in private. 

Edited by Pecansforeveryone
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The Mother Dust

I found the book in my library some months ago, for those of you who would be interested in getting it from the library...I also didn't want to buy it, haha.  I was able to borrow the e-book version and read it on my kindle.  I found it interesting, but yeah, I wouldn't recommend buying it unless you have money to throw around.

Edited by The Mother Dust

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Briefly

Gothard is as disgusting as it gets.  He's really slimy and just reading that crap makes my skin crawl.  He sounds like a class-a predator.  I think some of those conversations may have happened, but NOT in the way he says!  It's probably more along the line of he was coming on to the girls, although he would not see it that way.  I can see him following pretty girls around and trying to engage them in conversation.  He's just gross!

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Howl

Repulsive.  I don't think there was one normal person in that family.  The other Gothard brothers (David and Steve) are also basically deviant criminals.  Early on, Steve was having numerous affairs with the ladies in the front office.  David, according to Homeschoolers Anonymous, was charged with bilking the elderly out of millions with a Ponzi scheme.  I couldn't find anything about this later than 2016, so I don't know if he ever went to trial. 

Gothard himself is just repellent.  He wrote and wrote and wrote directing how others should live their lives and has zero, and I do mean zero, insight on what it means to be an emotionally healthy human or what spirituality really means.  Ick. I feel like I need to  take a shower.  

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JermajestyDuggar

This thread reminds me of an incident back in elementary school. My mom asked the neighbor boy to walk with me to school because she found out there was a child molester in the neighborhood. He told the other boys why he had to walk with me and one of them said, “why is she worried? No one would rape you!” And they all laughed. I was fat and ugly and they let me know it every day. 

I knew even as a kid that wasn’t true. It’s insane that adults actually believe this garbage. 

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Tired
CyborgKin

“What if you were interviewed some day on a national TV program and they asked you if you ever looked inside of a Playboy magazine?”

Surely Bill's Pure Standards wouldn't allow him to contemplate looking at the cover of one :P

Meanwhile, Trump was on a cover, or so I heard.

 

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