Why Bill Likes Pretty Teen Girls

[hoipolloi]

This is unreal. The whole thing. Good to see they're getting some pushback in the comments though:

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Having studied this extensively, I’ve come to a different conclusion than you [the Moderator] have. I see Mr. Gothard’s end of ministry as more parallel to James Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, John Geoghan, and Tedd Haggard than to Paul and Moses.

 

[love2scrap]

If anything, from that part 1 we get this juicy tidbit, that old billy boy IS in fact, a virgin!!

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I recall an instance where on this blog, or maybe even on RG, we were challenged to ask him, point blank: “Bill, ARE you a virgin?”  This was rather embarrassing to me, despite feeling a relative boldness in such things, but I took the challenge, went to his house, looked him in the eye, and asked the question.  I still recall the look of joy and peace that came over him as he said, “Yes, I am!”  He spoke of the joy that he felt, being able to give that answer truthfully.

 

[apple1]

Wow. I pretty much thought this disgusting old man had become mostly irrelevant. "... not with a bang, but a whimper..." I find it astonishing, appalling that anyone still interacts with him.

I would have thought that by now his only interactions would be telling a home caregiver some little complaint.

[formergothardite]

If Bill really felt like he was called to give a special ministry to attractive teens, he should have been open about that. He deceived parents by not being honest that pretty teens would be treated differently than the ones he found less attractive. 

This is just him rewriting history to justify how he behaved. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

Well, of course. Pretty teenage girls raised based on his rules are compliant and blame themselves for anything that could (or would) happen to them. They'd do as he tells them, "forgive" him, and keep going back. 

 

What a horrible excuse for a human.

[samurai_sarah]

21 hours ago, formergothardite said:

(snip)

Bill claims that he had to focus on the pretty ones because being more attractive means that God wants you to be a leader and that the attractive ones should be identified and receive special attention early on. (snip)

If what had happened weren't so horrible, I'd say that that's the excuse that I'll be using when I start my own cult. I'll surround myself with buff young lads, and claim that some deity wanted it that way. The deity wants me to prey on your children, so give them to me! The deity wants you to beat the everloving out of your kids, so do it! Disregard the tears and the pain, and the lasting trauma, just pretty your little boys up so they can serve as my eye-candy and then let me abuse them further!

Sickening, right?

[Lisafer]

What is WRONG with these people? Celebrating that he's technically maybe possibly a virgin, while ignoring his groping and manhandling of young women. 

P.S. I don't believe he's a virgin. Nope. Not having it. By all accounts, he's forced sexual contact on many young women and lied about it. He's been thinking with his dick for years.

[Howl]

I'm returning to this thread to say that the Gothard ick factor keeps multiplying exponentially in my mind.  He's trying to explain away his fetish for pretty young girls who look a certain way (curly hair just so), that led to him being a serial predator who abused an endless string of young "ladies". 

From reading accounts of those abused by Gothard and others who were present, what was happening was obvious -- it was an open secret -- but no one felt empowered to say anything, because No Bad Reports.  This is all Cult 101.  

The recent incident where Gothard was turned away at a conference was great, but sadly would not lead anyone to be introspective enough to turn their backs on his vile teachings.  Although he's not in prison where he should be, he's apparently been largely abandoned. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

If what had happened weren't so horrible, I'd say that that's the excuse that I'll be using when I start my own cult. I'll surround myself with buff young lads, and claim that some deity wanted it that way. The deity wants me to prey on your children, so give them to me! The deity wants you to beat the everloving out of your kids, so do it! Disregard the tears and the pain, and the lasting trauma, just pretty your little boys up so they can serve as my eye-candy and then let me abuse them further!

Sickening, right?

Did you see the episode of The Unbreakable Kimmie Schmidt where her friend started a cult full of teen boys and she quickly regretted it? It was hilarious. All they did was eat, fart, and play video games all day. 

[katilac]

Oh, for heaven's sake! Playboy came out in 1953, it wasn't plopped on the drugstore magazine rack next to Good Housekeeping and Superman comic books. Even today, I have never seen a non-sex store where they aren't kept behind the counter, although you can sometimes see part of the cover in the more dubious convenience stores. I'm not saying the store owners are all concerned about public morals, but nudie mags are expensive. They're not leaving them out for you to paw through. 

And agree that the conversations don't ring true. 

[samurai_sarah]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Did you see the episode of The Unbreakable Kimmie Schmidt where her friend started a cult full of teen boys and she quickly regretted it? It was hilarious. All they did was eat, fart, and play video games all day. 

That episode was hilarious! But it also made a quite pertinent point about gender relations.

If I were to start a hypothetical cult, in which I asked parents to groom their sons to please me, there'd be an immediate outcry. If, in my hypothetical cult, I demanded that underage boys look as I demand, and keep them around me at all times, it'd be a scandal. If I, and only I- with no male partner at my side-, were at the head of it all, and demanded such things involving underage teenage boys, I'd be locked up in no time at all.

But when it comes to someone like Bill Gothard and teenage girls, the general public doesn't seem to see how sick all of it is. To me, personally, it seems that the abuse of women is so commonplace that it merits a shrug. Oh well, what can you do? It's just the way things are!

NO! It's sickening, and there is a lot one can do, starting with the seemingly small stuff. But, because it "only" involves women, it's somehow not that bad. We're so used to women getting abused that it's a footnote, but ZOMG imagine if the same thing happened to men!

 

[cascarones]

As a teen girl girl who dated my brother's oldest friend (phD student), those conversations ring oddly true. My parents, while pissed when they got a call of us kissing in his car down the street, were most upset that I hadn't told them. Not that he was 25 and I was 16, because they knew him, they trusted him. He'd grown up down the street and should have come to ask, not just hired me onto his lab project, because that was what made it scandalous. It was a sweet relationship and also hardcore couched in modesty rules. 

I read it. I both shook my head and nodded at it in understanding, got to unpack that.

[Ozlsn]

 

Well that was a long-winded way of saying "because he's a sleazebucket".

[RosyDaisy]

WTF did I just read? Sick pervert is putting it mildly. Now I need to find nausea medicine.

[PinkPrincess0213]

@nokidsmom, do you have links for the stories of the girls who thought Gothard was going to marry them? I would be really interested in reading them if they are available.

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, PinkPrincess0213 said:

@nokidsmom, do you have links for the stories of the girls who thought Gothard was going to marry them? I would be really interested in reading them if they are available.

They are on recovering grace. I can't remember which stories include that, but if I remember correctly there were at least two girls who thought he was going to marry them. 

[Howl]

23 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They are on recovering grace. I can't remember which stories include that, but if I remember correctly there were at least two girls who thought he was going to marry them. 

I recall that Gothard went to the board with his plan to marry one of these young girls, and they were, Nah. Nope. Not happening.  This was not a May - December situation.  It was more like March - December.  The board knew, all along.  

[libriatrix]

One of the most fascinating things about Gothard to me is his vast ability to bullshit. Not just bullshit but make up all these weirdly detailed, bizarre, and completely implausible anecdotes that apparently prove beyond doubt that his bullshit conclusions are true. It's all throughout his Wisdom Booklets and all the material that his company puts out. It's just such a bizarre and clearly recognizable style. 

 

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, libriatrix said:

One of the most fascinating things about Gothard to me is his vast ability to bullshit. Not just bullshit but make up all these weirdly detailed, bizarre, and completely implausible anecdotes that apparently prove beyond doubt that his bullshit conclusions are true. It's all throughout his Wisdom Booklets and all the material that his company puts out. It's just such a bizarre and clearly recognizable style. 

 

Him and L. Ron Hubbard would probably recognise each other.

[Satan'sFortress]

Genuine question--not snark:  If God makes people attractive for a special purpose---if God favors the attractive people---if the attractive people are better somehow than the average-looking ones, how does Bill G explain his own average physical appearance?

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Satan'sFortress said:

how does Bill G explain his own average physical appearance?

Pretty sure he has placed himself in the attractive category. He is very vain. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

I encourage Gothard to keep writing more of these essays.  It's a win/win... he gets to keep feeling relevant and the world gets to see him for the creepy predatory troll he really is. 

[Petronella]

The comments!!! Go Dan!

(Sorry, I’m on a phone and don’t see how to put this long quote under a spoiler.)

My favorite part is bolded. I’ll repeat it up here too. It’s a “defense” of Gothard’s brother Steve’s sexual misconduct:

Spoiler

 

“Steve, for his part, went to the Board and confessed. What he confessed was NOT all of what happened – the Board agreed that this should be a “stepping stone, not a stumbling block”, and based on the clear steps he had taken – including memorizing the entire book of Proverbs and detailed accountability – he should be considered recovered.”

INSANE.

 

Dan

August 31, 2018 - 1:09 pm

 

Since Bill sees himself as a protector we might wonder who he is protecting. Many years ago in a meeting several women on our staff had told us, that they had gone to Bill privately and told him specifically what his brother was doing with them or trying to do with them. They were clear about where his brother was touching them. There was no doubt about what they were telling Bill about the actions of his brother and the VP of IBYC (name at the time). In retrospect, they were asking Bill for protection. I asked him directly how he could forget these conversations and his response was classic; “I have learned to put these things out of my mind”. Exact quote. Obviously Bill’s understanding of protection did not extend to the young women on his staff. To say nothing of their fathers who, according to Bill, had sent their daughters to him for protection.

 

Moderator Author
September 1, 2018 - 12:16 am 

So, to be clear, in a prior post you, Dan, indicated that it was one (1) specific woman, not several, who told her story to an assembled group as something she had previously told Bill. Bill had at that point no recollection of it and we are left with the testimony of the young woman as the only witness.
The matter with his brother was a full scale nightmare. Coming at the apex of the ministry with Bill jetting around the country speaking in two different cities each week, 20K people or more. He told us of the difficulties he experienced attempting to come to ground on the matter. He DID get some confusing testimony as he attempted to deal with it. Those that were the “first responders”, the ones that caught Steve and a young woman in his office . . . Were only able to attest to seeing far less than we now know actually happened. And Steve “confessed” to such a lesser offense that was not, well, full scale sex. Bill and his father interviewed a woman, whether this one or the one that was in Steve’s office – and she immediately recanted her entire story.
So . . . There was a mess and a lot of confusion. Coupled with office jealousies that were definitely in the mix which gave a motive for why things might have been exaggerated. And Bill took his brother’s word as the bottom line and apparently “put the rest out of his mind”. I know that he was deeply grieved for the harm that came to the 7 women, in part for exactly that reason – it was his job to protect, and he had failed at it.

Dan
September 2, 2018 - 9:01 pm 

Let’s see how unclear and confusing this is:
1) There were multiple women, we single guys were either asked to step out of them room or volunteered to leave to provide some level of respect to our friends. However, the intent was clear. They were going to remind Bill of exactly what his brother either did, tried to do, or both. As one who stepped out, there was no ambiguity, nothing was unclear, and no confusion.

2) However, there was one, a good friend, who did not ask us single guys to step out of the room, she wanted us to hear it all and concerning her own modesty (not sure this is the best word) her exact words were “I don’t care”. In reminding Bill and explaining to all of us what had transpired, she was clear where Bill’s brother touched her and she was equally clear that she had told Bill the exact same thing when she had gone to Bill. It was as clear as hands on chest and mid-stomach and not this was not an innocent friendly gesture.

3) Bill’s response when I specifically asked how he could forget this, his said, “I have learned to put these things out of my mind”.
There was no office jealously, there was no confusion, no one was too busy. There was no way Bill could have missed the message. Bill’s brother and SVP was sexually abusing them, they told Bill about it and he did nothing. We can debate all day about young women just saying “no” and who is right and who is wrong. But when a young women tells Bill with absolutely clarity and shows him on her chest where his brother tried to touch her, it is absurd to think he is some kind of a protector let alone that he would just “put these things out of his mind”, Even an ounce of concern for his staff should have triggered a response. But since he did not want to sully his mind with images of sexual abuse (somewhere in there he quoted Job) he just …. forgot. Outrageous.

It is a disgusting statement for him to think he is a …. protector. I am still friends with a women who’s own father called Bill and told him his daughter was coming home and Bill’s response was anger. He actually phoned me and told me this was not done right and he had written 10 pages of material on how to leave a ministry. I guess a father, acting upon is own duty as a father, desiring to protect his daughter, does not have the right fulfill this basic duty unless Bill gives him his own blessing. The methodology was as simple as a phone call and saying “we have discussed this as a family and ________ is coming home”

I am saddened by the whole disgusting idea…. protector?

Moderator Author

September 4, 2018 - 5:36 pm

 

We held on to your comment for a bit, apologies. I wanted to cross check with Bill because of the specificity of your claims. After getting a chance to talk today, I will say:

1) Bill is emphatic that he was NOT involved in any public “confessions” of women. Perhaps others orchestrated that, but it was not he. “Ridiculous” was a word he used. He was forced out in a coup – there were subsequent meetings which friends of his, including Charles Stanley, conducted. I guess I would like more details, even more witnesses, to nail this down.

2). That statement about him putting such things out of his mind was not something that triggered any recollection, although I asked pointedly in several different ways. He told me that he made a diliberate point of boxing away memories of lurid details confessed in private counseling as a rule, particularly once resolved. But in the context of a woman’s public testimony, allegedly the second time through? No.

3). There were 2-3 women involved in the first wave, 1977 or 78. Fathers happened to be there at that time (he gave me names, presumably your friend is one of them), he recalls speaking to them, trying to handle this correctly. Steve, for his part, went to the Board and confessed. What he confessed was NOT all of what happened – the Board agreed that this should be a “stepping stone, not a stumbling block”, and based on the clear steps he had taken – including memorizing the entire book of Proverbs and detailed accountability – he should be considered recovered.

4). If your friend is willing, I would appreciate the opportunity to interview her. For that matter, we could set something up with Bill and yourself as well. What I have learned in the wake of the strong, detailed, repeated attestations by Gary Smalley that he emphatically, with his wife confirming, recanted just a year or two before he died, is that memories do very weird things after 20 years. Which is why having 2-3 witnesses on EACH offense is the unyielding Scriptural mandate before even “receiving” an accusation against “an elder”.

Reply

 

Dan

September 4, 2018 - 10:13 pm

 

Sorry my friend but there is nothing to nail down. I would be stunned if Bill had any memory because he always seems to forget when convenient but has vivid memories when it suits him. And no I will not give you the name as she probably just as soon remain anonymous and has put this way behind her. As many have done.

The very idea that Bill sees himself as some kind of protector is just ludicrous. And it was no Coup. What was the coup was Bill getting the Board to hire a corporate trial attorney to fire everyone who was not willing to bow down and get rolled over. It was worse than sheep among wolves. His staff were trained to honor authority and be compliant. Then they bring in this attorney, complete with his son-in-law as his legal aid to take notes. Protector? Bill was no more interested in protecting his staff than a wolf is to pass up a free meal. Protector? Disgusting.

 

 

[EowynW]

It was common knowledge in my homeschool circle growing up that only a certain kind of girl got into the important circles with Gothard. 

Sadly a lot of people still support him. My inlaws wanted all of their adult kids and families to go camping at Family Camp in Big Sandy this Fall. 2/3 said hell no but the 3rd (a fundie preacher) is going to go wife shop. My MIL still has a great chance of getting the perfect fundie DIL with her youngest son.  

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, EowynW said:

It was common knowledge in my homeschool circle growing up that only a certain kind of girl got into the important circles with Gothard. 

Everyone at the training centers knew that only the ones that looked like Bill liked would get to do important things. But, Bill never, and I asked my mom if she remembered and she didn't, was open about how he felt called to minister to pretty teen girls more than the less attractive ones and that he had a calling to train the "princesses" to be front and center. There was nothing about how he felt the unattractive teens should stay in the background because God called attractive people to be in the spotlight. 

If Bill truly felt like this, he should have told the parents sending their children to him. He didn't, and I am 100% sure he just recently made this up in hopes of getting back some former glory by justifying how he surrounded himself with pretty teen girls.