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Support Irish women's right to choose!


Irishy

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Looks like Ireland will have a referendum next year to repeal the 8th amendment to our constitution, which was introduced in 1982 and gives equal value to the life of a fetus and it's mother. 

 

We have a new Taoiseach (prime minister) who I had great hopes for. He's openly gay and young but he appears to be firmly on the fence. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/09/opinion/sunday/leo-varadkar-ireland-dowd.html

The committee to develop the wording meet today for the first time and the process is expected to take three months. Hopefully they will bear in mind the recommendations of the citizens assembly which took place earlier this year. Their recommendations were abortion available on request up to 12 weeks and up to 22 for sociology economic reasons. 

 

We, the women of Ireland (well most of us) feel like we are on the cusp of real change and our daughters will have real choice regarding pregnancy and childbirth. The annual march for choice takes place on Saturday the 30th of September. My friends and I will be out in force, little people in tow and the menfolk of course! 

 

FJers support us in any small way you can. Give a like or a share on FB if you see media coverage of the march, or if there's are solidarity events happening near you, tell your friends and family. Keep us in the global eye and make a holy show of our ridiculous laws. No better crowd to ask than you lot!

https://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/about-arc/

 

 

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Make choice happen, Ireland! Go fight! I'll stand with you, for all that's worth.

Remember when this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

Not that I need to tell Irish activists, but this kind of shite is what fundies support. THIS is what every woman, who is fertile, is facing if fundies get their way.

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1 hour ago, samurai_sarah said:

Make choice happen, Ireland! Go fight! I'll stand with you, for all that's worth.

Remember when this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

Not that I need to tell Irish activists, but this kind of shite is what fundies support. THIS is what every woman, who is fertile, is facing if fundies get their way.

There was also the child X case in the early 90s, where a 13 year old pregnant from a rape was at first denied permission to go to the UK for an abortion. She was eventually allowed to do so, after doctors certified that she was suicidal, but miscarried before she made the journey.

if I remember correctly, the matter got before the courts because the parents asked the police if DNA from the abortion could be used as evidence in the rape case, and this led to the authorities getting involved. otherwise, they would have just been another family taking a trip to the UK.

@IrishyLove the picture! And sending you moral support!

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Thanks for posting @Irishy  Great photo too, I had no idea this was happening at Leinster House today. I really hope some real change can come about with this next referendum. I have no hope for Leo at all, he is total disgrace. He will continue to sit on the fence, and while the tide is slowly turning about Repeal the 8th issue, there are still too many people opposing abortion in Ireland, so Leo won't risk  it rock the boat by having an opinion.

The Savita case was hearbreaking. And so many other sad cases having catch flights/ferry to England. Terrible treatment for the women involved. This country is so backwards it makes my blood boil. 

Crazy to think women here are fighting to move forward and for the right to have this option available to them closer to home, while  fundies and other conservative type protesting to end it. To me it feels like such a move backwards. Sadly it is probably easier to move backwards than for us to move forwards.

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  • 7 months later...

So we go to the polls next Friday the 25th! Very scared but hopeful. I’ve been out canvassing and knocking on doors the last few weeks and the response has been positive.

the No campaign has had to ship in a load of grifting missionary tourists from the US to ‘save the baybeeez’

its all fun and games folks 

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Go Irish Women you can do it! Rooting for you!

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1 hour ago, Irishy said:

the No campaign has had to ship in a load of grifting missionary tourists from the US to ‘save the baybeeez’

I"m sorry. We seem to send our worst to inflict themselves on the rest of the world. Jill Rod. had someone post something to her page about this. 

 

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This billboard is so typical of their campaign, full of lies. Proposed legislation is for abortion up to 12 weeks. After 12 weeks only in cases where there is a risk to life or serious health of mother or in cases of fatal fetal abnormality. Past viability all abortion will be illegal and delivery will be induced. 

Which translates as abortion up to six months? Please

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  • 2 weeks later...

The vote is today, correct? Any idea on how this might turn out?

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9 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The vote is today, correct? Any idea on how this might turn out?

Yes, it is. The WaPo has a couple of articles about it.

Spoiler

Ireland has one of the strictest abortion laws in the world. This week's historic referendum could change that. On Friday, Ireland will decide whether to repeal its Eighth Amendment and change its current abortion laws.

Ahead of the vote, thousands of people living abroad are returning home to Ireland to mark their ballots. The hashtag #HomeToVote trended on Twitter on Thursday, with many sharing their stories of just how far they had traveled to have their votes counted and their voices heard. Photos of both “yes” and “no” campaign posters on display across Ireland have dominated social media in recent weeks.

Here is a look at what Ireland is voting on, what “Repeal the Eighth” means and what might happen if a majority votes to ditch the amendment.

When is the Irish abortion referendum?

Ireland will go to the polls from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. on Friday. The votes will be counted Saturday and a final result is expected before Sunday.

What is the Eighth Amendment?

The Eighth Amendment was added to the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland in 1983. It equates the right to life of a pregnant woman with that of her fetus, thereby nearly criminalizing abortion. As The Washington Post's William Booth outlined this week, the amendment outlaws almost all abortion — even in cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormality and risk to the woman's health.

The amendment has been called “archaic” and “dangerous” by the Abortion Rights Campaign and “yes” supporters.

The hashtag #RepealThe8th has been used increasingly on social media by “yes” campaigners in the run-up to Friday's vote. The hashtag has been used almost 90,000 times on Instagram, with users sharing photos of themselves wearing clothing with the word “Repeal” emblazoned on the front. Other search results for this hashtag include “her body, her choice” quotes and images of “Yes for Repeal” street art spray-painted onto walls.

Why is Ireland voting now?

The United Nations Human Rights Committee has long called for the country's near-total abortion ban to be revoked.

But the Eighth Amendment came under major scrutiny after the death of Savita Halappanavar in 2012. Halappanavar, 31, went to a hospital in grave pain. Her doctors said a miscarriage was “inevitable,” but they refused to terminate her pregnancy. She died days later from sepsis, an infection of the blood. At the time, her husband said he thought an abortion might save her life. Her death sent shock waves through Ireland and led to widespread protests.

“She didn’t get the medical treatment she needed because of the Eighth Amendment,” Halappanavar's father told the Guardian this month.

In 2013, Ireland passed the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, allowing an abortion when there is a substantial risk to the mother's life. But many thought that the change was not enough progress, and that having an abortion in Ireland was still nearly impossible.

In September, the Irish government announced that it would hold an abortion referendum in 2018.

Who wants the amendment to remain in place?

Many of the “no” campaigners consider abortion a human rights issue, arguing that fetuses deserve the same protection as babies. They argue, too, that legalizing abortion will lead pregnant women to terminate fetuses with genetic disorders. One antiabortion campaign features children and adults with genetic disorders and messages such as, “I was almost aborted. I’m someone. Not someone’s choice.”

The Catholic Church is also in favor of the ban. But clergy members are not leading the referendum campaigns. As Booth reported, “The church has lost much of its authority in the wake of scandals over priests sexually abusing children and the church hierarchy shielding them.”

What happens if Ireland votes no?

If the repeal fails, Ireland's abortion laws will stay the same.

And it seems unlikely that there would be another vote anytime soon. Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has been calling the vote a “once-in-a-generation decision.” The last vote on the issue was 35 years ago.

What happens if Ireland votes yes? 

If a majority of voters vote to repeal the Eighth Amendment, it will be removed from the Constitution. However, abortion won't automatically become legal.

Lawmakers must then create — and pass — a new set of guidelines.

They almost certainly will. Several of Ireland's most prominent politicians, including the prime minister, have said they support a repeal of the law.

Some have begun circulating the legislation they would pass if the amendment is repealed. In its current form, it would make abortion legal for all women in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Women who want an abortion would have to go to a doctor and be briefed on their options. They also would have to wait three days after that first meeting before terminating their pregnancy. If the woman chose to terminate, she would be given an abortion pill.

Under the new law, women who are more than 12 weeks pregnant would be permitted to have an abortion if their lives or health were at risk. (Two doctors would have to agree that the risk existed.) They also would be allowed if doctors agree that the fetus wouldn't survive outside the womb or would die of an abnormality shortly after.

After 24 weeks — which is when a fetus can survive outside the womb — abortion would be banned except if the fetus has a fatal abnormality.

Doctors may choose not to perform abortions if they oppose the procedure for moral reasons, but they must make arrangements for the patient to be transferred to a different practitioner.

The new law would decriminalize abortion for women. Doctors who perform an abortion outside the law, however, could be imprisoned for up to 14 years.

It's not clear how many lawmakers support the legislation or whether it will pass in its current form. Right now, the ruling party is in the minority, relying on the support of other groups to pass legislation. And parties may let some of their members oppose their own legislation because of the moral issues.

It's hard to predict what the new rules on abortion will look like. As David Kenny, a professor at Trinity College, said in the Irish Times: “The Government's control over the lawmaking process is not nearly as strong as it has typically been and parliament is much stronger. This adds some unpredictability, as the Government’s proposal may be altered by parliament against its will.”

What do the polls say?

Polls have generally shown good news for those who want a repeal. An Irish Times poll conducted in April, for instance, gave repeal a 47 percent to 28 percent lead. But with the gap narrowing and many voters still undecided — 20 percent, according to the Irish Times survey — there is still plenty of uncertainty.

 

There was a related article embedded. Quite depressing: "The many countries where abortion is basically banned"

Spoiler

On Friday, Ireland will go to the polls to decide whether to lift its near-total ban on abortion.

Currently, the country’s constitution grants mothers and unborn children an equal “right to life,” prohibiting the procedure unless it’s necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman. But that could change this week if voters decide to strike down its Eighth Amendment.

Even if that happens, lawmakers would still have to draft a new law on whether and how abortion will be regulated. But Friday’s referendum is a big first step.

Ireland’s current abortion laws are among the most stringent in the world. Only four countries regulate the procedure more strictly, banning the procedure in all cases.

El Salvador's laws are perhaps the most draconian. In that Catholic country, it’s illegal to have an abortion under any circumstance, even if a mother’s life is in danger. Women who have an abortion or even experience a miscarriage can face up to 30 years in prison; more than 100 women have been charged under these regulations.

Nicaragua’s rules are just as rigid — women cannot get an abortion, even if their life is in danger. But they face significantly less stringent penalties for breaking the rules.

Chile once banned all abortions too, but it relaxed its laws in 2017. Now, women may get an abortion if a pregnancy endangers their life, if the fetus is not viable or if the pregnancy resulted from rape. Brazilian lawmakers, meanwhile, are considering new legislation that would ban access to all abortions, even in cases of rape and for women whose lives are in danger.

Malta, where 98 percent of the population identifies as Catholic, is the only country in the European Union with a full prohibition. Unsurprisingly, Vatican City, not a member of the EU, also bans the procedure.

The countries with total bans house 6 percent of the world’s 1.64 billion women of reproductive age, according to the Guttmacher Institute.

It's relatively rare for a country to ban abortion entirely. But that doesn't mean women have easy access to the procedure in most places. The vast majority of countries put at least some restrictions on abortion access.

A 2018 Guttmacher Institute report surveyed the legal landscape for abortion in 2017. They found that 39 countries allow abortion only when needed to save a woman’s life. Thirty-six also allow abortion to protect the mother’s physical health. Twenty-four other countries explicitly specify a threat to a woman’s mental health as grounds for legal abortion. A dozen others grant women the right to an abortion if they can’t afford to raise a child.

Just 60 countries provide legal access to safe abortions. The vast majority of those places are in the developed world.

The evidence suggests, though, that that’s changing. Between 2000 and 2017, 28 countries changed their abortion laws. In all but one case, they made it easier for women to access abortions. The chart below, by Guttmacher, shows how laws (and norms) are shifting:

... < chart >

I didn't realize how bad El Salvador's law was for women. Wow, just wow. Of course, we know that Pencey and his evangelical buddies would be thrilled if we had the same laws here.

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I'm going to see if I can find it (currently struggling) but there was a twitter moment showing pictures of mainly women but some men too flying back to Ireland to vote for this!

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2 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I'm going to see if I can find it (currently struggling) but there was a twitter moment showing pictures of mainly women but some men too flying back to Ireland to vote for this!

Here ya go:

 

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This made me smile:

 

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And it is done, votes closed now. Now for the anxious wait. I've never been so emotional casting a vote before.

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I liked this one:

 

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Exit polls apparently looking good, but I don't want to get my hopes up. The NO voters will have been out in force and v high turnout, even if Yes 'seems' to be the majority in the last few weeks. Those not bothering to or unable to vote could make or break it the results really.

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12 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

Exit polls apparently looking good, but I don't want to get my hopes up. The NO voters will have been out in force and v high turnout, even if Yes 'seems' to be the majority in the last few weeks. Those not bothering to or unable to vote could make or break it the results really.

I read an article at CNN that said the results won't be known until mid-afternoon Saturday. Does that sound right to you?

I figured I'd start checking for results around 9am Saturday to account for the time difference. 

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