Election Recount

[RoseWilder]

I thought I would start a new thread to talk about the election recount, since there's so much new information. 

As most of you probably already know, Jill Stein has filed for recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Trump and various other Republicans are trying to stop it. 

Here's an update on what's happening: 

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/2/1606691/-Update-on-the-WI-MI-Recount-Battle

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A Federal judge rejected the request for a temporary restraining order to immediately halt the recount filed by two pro-Trump PACs.  A hearing is scheduled for Dec 9th.  So far, the Wisconsin Department of Justice and Attorney General have not taken a position on the recount lawsuit.

In the meantime the WI recount will continue.

Jill Stein has posted pictures on her website that she says show that 5 of the 9 voting machines being used in the Wisconsin recount have seals that were tampered with: 

http://www.jill2016.com/wendy_st_croix_county

Michigan: 

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The Elections Board deadlocked today on a Trump campaign request to deny Stein's recount request and on how a recount would be conducted.  The two Republican members voted to prevent the recount; the two Democrats voted to allow it.  Meaning the recount will proceed — unless a court intervenes.  And one might.  Both Michigan’s Attorney General (a Republican) and Trump campaign have asked state courts to prevent the recount.  The MI recount would be by hand.

And, in Pennsylvania: 

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 A hearing is scheduled for Monday on Stein's petition to secure a court-ordered statewide recount.  As many have noted already, Trump’s lead in PA sank from 70,000 to 49,000.  His margin in PA is now only .8%.  The automatic trigger for an automatic statewide recount is a .5% margin.  Very interesting note in this CNBC article:  final counts are still outstanding in some places, including Philadelphia. 

Does anyone else feel like this election has turned into a fucking soap opera? Has anyone else used more profanity in the last month than in the whole rest of their lives put together? 

[Childless]

I want to know what Trump is so afraid of.  He insists without voter fraud, he would have won the popular vote also.  So, why isn't he all on board with these recounts so he can prove he did in fact win both the electoral college and the popular vote?  Come on Trump!  Let the state recounts proceed if your so damn sure of yourself.  Quit being a scaredy cat.

[RoseWilder]

Jill Stein has dropped her bid for a recount in Pennsylvania: 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jill-stein-pennsylvania-recount_us_584364dae4b09e21702f272c

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Green Party candidate Jill Stein abruptly dropped her bid to seek a recount of the presidential election vote in Pennsylvania after a judge ordered her campaign to post a $1 million bond, a spokesman said on Saturday.

“Petitioners are regular citizens of ordinary means. They cannot afford to post the $1,000,000 bond required by the court,” an attorney for the Stein campaign wrote in court papers, according to an email from spokesman Sam Scarrow.

“How odd is it that we must jump through bureaucratic hoops and raise millions of dollars so we can trust our election results?” Stein said on Twitter.

The campaign of Republican President-elect Donald Trump had requested a $10 million bond, court papers showed.

 

 

[RoseWilder]

I just found an article that explains what's happening with Pennsylvania better, and it appears that the recount in that state isn't completely over, Stein is just having to take a different approach: 

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/no-pennsylvania-recount-effort-isnt-yes-mainstream-media-lying/359/

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Since the recount effort in three states got underway last week, the major media have afforded it virtually no coverage. Even as the Wisconsin recount enters its third day and numerous inconsistencies are being documented, the mainstream media has remained silent. After the Michigan elections board approved the recount go-ahead, nary a peep. Now the major media outlets are finally talking about the Pennsylvania recount effort, but only to report that it’s now “over” – which is not the case.

What actually happened today is that in a desperate last ditch attempt at preventing the recount, the State of Pennsylvania suddenly invented a million dollar bond that third party candidate Jill Stein would have needed to immediately pay for. This came after the state of Wisconsin had surreptitiously increased its own recount price tag from $1.1 million to $3.8 million, for the rather transparent purpose of trying to bankrupt Stein’s recount effort.

Stein had raised millions of dollars, but with so much of that having been eaten up already by Wisconsin’s sudden price hike and the attorney fees required to fight fierce court battles against all three non-cooperating states, it turns out she didn’t have the $1 million cash on hand today to cover Pennsylvania’s sudden ransom demand. Thus she was forced to withdraw her court petition for a Pennsylvania recount. That doesn’t mean it’s over, of course, only that there is now another legal hurdle to fight.

In fact her next step is to fight for precinct by precinct recounts in Pennsylvania until the vote totals have been sufficiently corrected and revised to drop Donald Trump’s lead in the state from the current 0.8% mark to the 0.5% mark, which in turn would trigger an automatic statewide recount under Pennsylvania state law. So how many mainstream major media outlets are correctly reporting that the PA recount effort is now continuing with a new strategy? There don’t appear to be any.

If you look at the headlines coming from the major media outlets this evening, they’re uniformly misleading in that they’re attempting to create the appearance that Stein’s recount effort is finished. 

 

[RoseWilder]

A lawsuit has been filed to force a Florida recount: 

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/lawsuit-officially-filed-to-force-florida-recount/339/

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Yesterday a federally registered nonprofit election entity launched a fundraiser to cover the court costs of a lawsuit it intended to file in the name of forcing a statewide recount in the narrowly decided state of Florida. The attorney fees were fully crowdfunded within a matter of hours. And today the attorney in question announced that he has officially filed the lawsuit in question, creating at least some possibility that a Florida recount may happen.

Florida state law prohibits any candidate from requesting a recount, meaning that third party candidate Jill Stein cannot force a recount in the state even if she pays for the costs, as she’s doing in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. But this lawsuit is aimed at getting a judge to order a Florida recount, whether republican state officials want to do it or not.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

On 12/3/2016 at 0:47 AM, RoseWilder said:

Does anyone else feel like this election has turned into a fucking soap opera? Has anyone else used more profanity in the last month than in the whole rest of their lives put together? 

I'm reminded of the wonderful Carol Burnett show and her take on soap operas: As The Stomach Turns. That's exactly what this election has been.

And, yes, my potty mouth has gone full-on sewer over the last month.

[RoseWilder]

Some strange things are happening with the recount in Wisconsin: 

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/waukesha-wisconsin-double-donald-trump/381/

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As the statewide Wisconsin recount continues to get underway, the recount observers representing various presidential candidates have been sharing their first hand experiences online. Observers in some counties have found no issues at all, while others have reported concerns and suspicious incidents. But one recount observer Waukesha County is now making the flat out accusation that county officials are purposely double counting Donald Trump’s votes and pulling other shenanigans during the recount.

The accusation comes from recount observer John West, who has been documenting his experiences on his own publicly visible Facebook page. On Sunday evening he flatly declared that “I’m calling out fraud.” West went on to make the following specific accusations: “Waukesha County Wisconsin is obstructing the recount blatantly. Making up rules to shut out allowed observers. Double counting Republican ballots. Taking machines out and returning machines that break down after midnight hoping to avoid any observers.”

In the comments section of his own post, linked above, he went on to elaborate that “They aren’t invalidating clear duplicate and unsigned ballots that were mailed in,” thus explaining how the double-counting is taking place.

More on Waukesha County: 

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/wisconsin-recount-waukesha-county-officials-caught-illegally-hiding-ballots-from-observers/387/

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Four days into the Wisconsin statewide recount, one county in particular has emerged as the epicenter of controversy and corruption. Donald Trump won Waukesha County by a total of 66,320 votes, a margin three times as large as he won Wisconsin by overall. The county is refusing to do a hand recount, instead relying on the same machines which produced the original totals. Earlier today we reported that one recount observer had outright accused Waukesha officials of double-counting Trump’s votes. And now Jill Stein is expanding on the Waukesha scandal.

Jill Stein, the third party candidate who initiated the recount effort in Wisconsin and two other states, sent out the following message to her recount observers. Palmer Report has obtained a verified copy of the email in question. In it, Stein formally accuses Waukesha County officials of violating the law by purposely hiding ballots from the observers:

While most counties are conducting their recounts in clear and transparent fashion, we have gotten reports of observers not being allowed near the recount tables or not being allowed to view the ballots. For instance, in Waukesha County, officials are entering the ballots in to the machine face down. Remember, we have a legal right to see the ballots.

 

[RoseWilder]

Recount news from Michigan: 

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/judge-orders-michigan-recount-to-start-immediately/391/

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After a rare Sunday hearing in federal court to determine whether the Michigan recount should begin immediately or face a waiting period, the judge in question took the entire rest of the day – literally – to make up his mind. But after midnight local time, the federal judge announced that the statewide Michigan recount in the presidential election must immediately begin in the morning.

This comes after the state of Michigan had argued in court that the recount shouldn’t begin until Wednesday. It appeared to be an attempt at stalling so that Michigan’s Repuican Attorney General would have time to sue to get the recount killed before it began. But the judge apparently saw through that ruse, with local newspaper Detroit Free Press now confirming that the recount must begin on Monday.

 

[Ali]

I am trying to verify this myself, but I thought someone might know here. Is it legal to take pictures/videos of ballots and post them on facebook while helping with the recount in Michigan.

Also, criticizing the way people have voted while helping with the recount doing so makes me feel at ease that about the recount. (sarcasm font)

Edited to say that it is probably fine because she is not allowed to touch the ballots. She is one of trump's people send to monitor and challenge if she thinks it is necessary. I didn't see anything inappropriate in the video she posted except for criticizing the way people have voted.

[candygirl200413]

@Ali So is it that the votes aren't counted cause of a selfie? I did read that a lot of votes in certain Michigan counties are not going to be counted but it didn't hit me that selfies might be the cause? A quick google said the week and a half before the election that Michigan decided to ban the selfie for ballots Court says no ballot-box selfies in Michigan, after all

[Bethella]

3 hours ago, Ali said:

I am trying to verify this myself, but I thought someone might know here. Is it legal to take pictures/videos of ballots and post them on facebook while helping with the recount in Michigan.

Also, criticizing the way people have voted while helping with the recount doing so makes me feel at ease that about the recount. (sarcasm font)

Edited to say that it is probably fine because she is not allowed to touch the ballots. She is one of trump's people send to monitor and challenge if she thinks it is necessary. I didn't see anything inappropriate in the video she posted except for criticizing the way people have voted.

In Michigan you can't show your ballot to anyone (in person, picture or video) or it invalidates your ballot. The idea is to prevent buying votes. But I'm not sure if that applies after it goes through the tabulator. During the recount there's no way to connect the ballot to the voter, so it may not matter.

 

1 hour ago, candygirl200413 said:

@Ali So is it that the votes aren't counted cause of a selfie? I did read that a lot of votes in certain Michigan counties are not going to be counted but it didn't hit me that selfies might be the cause? A quick google said the week and a half before the election that Michigan decided to ban the selfie for ballots Court says no ballot-box selfies in Michigan, after all

The precincts that aren't being counted have discrepancies between the number of voters and the number of ballots, If the two numbers don't match and there isn't an explanation for why they don't match, under Michigan law the precinct can't be recounted. Which is bullshit in my opinion.

[bashfulpixie]

24 minutes ago, Bethella said:

The precincts that aren't being counted have discrepancies between the number of voters and the number of ballots, If the two numbers don't match and there isn't an explanation for why they don't match, under Michigan law the precinct can't be recounted. Which is bullshit in my opinion.

That's so stupid!  Especially if there are more ballots than voters.  We just need a national system at this point.

[RoseWilder]

39 minutes ago, Bethella said:

The precincts that aren't being counted have discrepancies between the number of voters and the number of ballots, If the two numbers don't match and there isn't an explanation for why they don't match, under Michigan law the precinct can't be recounted. Which is bullshit in my opinion.

Total bullshit. Especially since that is the kind of situation that requires the most scrutiny. And that fact that the mainstream media isn't talking about this the way they should is shameful. We have a situation where the number of ballots and the number of people voting doesn't match up - that should be the top headline on every news site. The media is failing us all right now. 

[Bethella]

9 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

That's so stupid!  Especially if there are more ballots than voters.  We just need a national system at this point.

While that's true in some cases in others it's the other way around, there are more voters than ballots, meaning that there may be ballots missing. But that doesn't take into account that the tabulators can be finicky- it's not all that uncommon to be off by one or two. Other problems can prevent a precinct from being recounted are if there are tears in the ballot storage bags or if the seals on the ballot bags don't match the records, both of which can be evidence of tampering. But the numbers coming out of Detroit/Wayne Count are nuts: 

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...officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.

Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662.

According to state law, precincts whose poll books don’t match with ballots can’t be recounted. If that happens, original election results stand.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

[Ali]

10 percent of the precincts counted so far in Oakland county, Michigan are uncountable.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/government-and-politics/20161206/presidential-recount-in-oakland-13-ballots-challenged-22-precincts-not-recountable-so-far

This article discuses some of the reasons that a precinct could be unrecountable. Michigan needs to update their voting process. If there was any tampering, a recount would do nothing to fix it because the original vote would stand.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/mismatched-numbers-means-precincts-cant-recounted/95015066/

[RoseWilder]

A federal judge just stopped the Michigan recount. 

I'm waiting for the mainstream media to ask "Why was Trump trying so hard to stop the recount if he's so sure he won?" but they're never going to actually do their jobs and be real journalists. 

Republicans are always talking about how the mainstream media is "the liberal media," but it's become quite clear that they're actually the conservative media. 

This tweet from Michael Moore sums up how I feel right now: 

ETA: The Palmer Report is reporting that the Michigan recount is not dead. The federal judge said he didn't have the authority to go against the lower courts decision and start it up again. Which still leaves Jill Stein the option of taking it to the Michigan State Supreme Court, which she plans to do. The problem is that all this legal maneuvering is wasting precious time, which is exactly why Trump is doing this. 

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/michigan-recount-is-not-dead-jill-stein-is-now-asking-michigan-supreme-court-to-resume-it/430/

[VixenToast]

Why aren't news channels reporting any of this? Or are they and I'm missing it? Oh, RoseWilder, this is alarming.

[GreyhoundFan]

The Washington Post had two articles about it this morning. This one is just the facts, with little commentary. This one is also just bare facts.  They also published several articles yesterday, including a timeline.

As The Washington Post has been rather good about publishing critical articles about Drumpf and the whole election, I think some of the op-ed writers will publish something later today. I would think the NYT will do so as well. Sadly, I don't know if any other major media outlets will do anything about it.

 

[RoseWilder]

9 hours ago, VixenToast said:

Why aren't news channels reporting any of this? Or are they and I'm missing it? Oh, RoseWilder, this is alarming.

They're sort of half-ass reporting on it. They mention it briefly, report the details wrong, and never really question why the Republicans are fighting so hard against the recount. 

We had to hear 24/7 about Clinton's emails for the last 2 weeks of the campaign - with speculation, and constant insinuations that Clinton was guilty even when they had no proof of it. So you'd think, when it comes to this, they'd be talking about it a lot, questioning why Stein wants to do this, and why Trump wants to stop it. But they're barely talking about it. 

[Childless]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

They're sort of half-ass reporting on it. They mention it briefly, report the details wrong, and never really question why the Republicans are fighting so hard against the recount. 

We had to hear 24/7 about Clinton's emails for the last 2 weeks of the campaign - with speculation, and constant insinuations that Clinton was guilty even when they had no proof of it. So you'd think, when it comes to this, they'd be talking about it a lot, questioning why Stein wants to do this, and why Trump wants to stop it. But they're barely talking about it. 

I've given up on the main stream media.  I don't bother getting my news from them anymore.

[RoseWilder]

Trump's lawyers were able to stop the recount in Pennsylvania and Michigan. If he knew he won legitimately, he wouldn't have fought so hard to stop the recount. 

We know have proof that Russian tries to interfere in our election, but hey, let's not do the rational thing and recount the votes. 

Another stolen election for the Republicans. Repulsive. 

[GreyhoundFan]

35 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

Trump's lawyers were able to stop the recount in Pennsylvania and Michigan. If he knew he won legitimately, he wouldn't have fought so hard to stop the recount. 

We know have proof that Russian tries to interfere in our election, but hey, let's not do the rational thing and recount the votes. 

Another stolen election for the Republicans. Repulsive. 

You know, you couldn't make this crap up. It's too crazy. I just don't know how any person with more than one functioning brain cell could believe the election wasn't impacted by the Russians. I don't know what can be done between now and the next election, but something needs to be done to secure our government at all levels. I guess getting Agent Orange to stop courting Putin in a gross man-crush-fest would be a good place to start. Maybe not nominating someone with major ties to Russia, like the CEO of Exxon would be a good second step. Of course, we all know those things won't happen, Drumpf just can't do anything sensible and logical.

[RoseWilder]

Detroit News is reporting that Michigan is going to do a statewide audit of the vote:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/vote-audit/95358702/

 

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Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

State officials are planning to examine about 20 Detroit precincts where ballot boxes opened during the recount had fewer ballots than poll workers had recorded on Election Day.

I'm sure Trump's team of lawyers are working right now to find a way to stop this, so I'm not getting too excited. But I'm glad to see that someone in Michigan is actually concerned about dealing with voting problems. 

[Summer60]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

Detroit News is reporting that Michigan is going to do a statewide audit of the vote:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/vote-audit/95358702/

 

I'm sure Trump's team of lawyers are working right now to find a way to stop this, so I'm not getting too excited. But I'm glad to see that someone in Michigan is actually concerned about dealing with voting problems. 

Even if a recount happened in both Michigan and Pennsylvania and he lost both states, Trump would have the 270 he needs.  I guess minus the one elector in Texas, but I don't think it would ultimately take it out of Trump's hands. That is, unless is sparked a new election or gave way to order recounts elsewhere. I find it unlikely based on the margin between him and Clinton in both states.  I don't want to imagine the reaction another vote would cause.  Wisconsin resulted in a widening of his lead. How much money was spent on that recount? Not to insult anyone that wants a recount in either State. I am just not buying into the idea that Russia hacked our election. I am not entirely dismissing it, but just not feeling like that is the answer to how we ended up with the election results.

[RoseWilder]

15 minutes ago, Summer60 said:

I am just not buying into the idea that Russia hacked our election. I am not entirely dismissing it, but just not feeling like that is the answer to how we ended up with the election results.

I don't think Jill Stein, or any of the other people who want a recount, are all doing it because we think Russia hacked the election. We want the recount because there was proof of voting inconsistencies (for example, in some counties, more votes were being counted than the number of people who voted) and if inconsistencies are found, then we want to know why. And we what whatever problems that are found to be corrected before a new election occurs. The problems could have occurred for a variety of reasons; hacking, voter fraud of some kind, human error, machine problems. I want to know what caused the problems and why so they can be corrected. I don't consider that a waste of money.