Article: Do We Only Like Large Families if They are White?

[GolightlyGrrl]

I thought this would interest my fellow Jingerites.

http://www.alternet.org/media/151414/am ... age=entire

[bea]

Very true, I think. Children are a blessing - but only if they're born into the right families, as far as the fundies are concerned.. If children are born to the poor, the unwed, the gay couples, the remarried, the Latinos, the African-Americans....well, they're not blessings, they're symbols of irresponsible sex and bad choices.

It's funny how having many children is a blessing to so many on the religious right, but they get all pious about the fact that they shouldn't be asked to provide women with prenatal care or infant/childcare or financial assistance because after all, having children is a CHOICE! This, after working so hard for so many years to eliminate sex education, funding for birth control, and access to abortion.

[Deleted12]

Not sure that I agree with all of the conclusions the author reaches.

John Gosselin's half Korean, making his family multiracial.

Also, I don't think it was racism that made people assume that Octomom would add those eight babies to the welfare rolls. Since, you know, she was already on welfare with her previous six kids.

All that being said, there is totally a double standard in this country about large families. If a black woman went all Michelle and popped out 19 kids that she couldn't take care of, there would be a public outcry.

(Hey! I hit the Pearls with plumbing line now! :D )

[QueenNocturne]

In 2010 in Columbus, a black couple had sextuplets. All the comments on the Columbus Dispatch's on-line story about it were people complaining about how their tax money will be going to supporting this family. There was nothing, I repeat, NOTHING in the story that would indicate that the family was receiving financial assistance, and apparently they were basing their comments on the fact the family was black.

I don't know much, at all, about this family, how they're raising their kids, etc., but I find it sick that people would jump on a minority family for having lots of kids, but ignore that the white Duggars are popping out kids and putting the burden of raising them on their older kids.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Yes, Jon Gosselin is half Korean, but the mother of the children is white, and the kids are only 1/4 Asian (the rest white) and so end up... basically white, in the way this sort of judgement thing usually ends up working in my observation. It would be interesting to see how things might be different if the "other" race was not Asian but rather Hispanic or Black, or for that matter if it were the mother who had the multiracial background - just thinking about how the article mentions Angelina Jolie and Madonna adopting non-white kids. Also if the kids were raised bilingual it could be interesting.

Disclaimer: I've never seen the show, only seen the odd headline about the Gosselin family in the magazines at the supermarket checkout. Does the show actually make reference to their mixed background or talk about identity issues at all?

I guess I should YouTube...

[mebeforee]

Disclaimer: I've never seen the show, only seen the odd headline about the Gosselin family in the magazines at the supermarket checkout. Does the show actually make reference to their mixed background or talk about identity issues at all?

I guess I should YouTube...

I used to watch the show before it crashed and burned, and I remember them discussing it every once in awhile. It seems to have been important to Jon to share his culture with the kids, and they visited relatives a few times, went on some trips, had big Korean meals, etc. I also seem to remember in the interview sections, at least once, them talking to Kate about her feelings and perspective regarding the cultural mix.

[Beeks]

Really? People dislike Octomom because of the color of her skin?

Come. On. :roll:

[Olivia]

Um, totally didn't realize Octomom was non-white. I tried to avoid reading much about that hot mess, but I thought she looked a lot like Angelina Jolie, who is white, so I didn't... get it, apparently. (But I also associate women desperate for babies to love them, lots and lots of babies, with the poor crazy white girls I grew up with, so...).

[Feberin]

I don't think Octomom was a fair point to make considering the woman already was on assistance and is CRAZY! That said I do think the author has a point, which is sad. Also didn't Family Matters have at least three kids? I remember a daughter, son and a younger daughter. Does anyone know about that African-American family who had a TLC reality show because of sextuplets or something? I only watched a few episodes but they seemed like a nice family. Anyone know if they got a lot of critisim that wasn't thrown at the other multiples reality shows?

[emmiedahl]

The Octomom is half Middle Eastern.

I think in the eyes of racists, Asians and Jews are considered model minorities and don't 'count' when they are talking about the eebil non-whites. Hence the popularity of the Gosselins. The parents of that family are leeches on society who had multiples as a means of getting on TV and since then have proceeded to be remarkably bad parents. Yet a lot of people like them... it's a phenomenon I don't really understand.

Honestly? All of the large black families I know are on assistance (so is my large white/Asian/Native American family, I'm not judging, especially not in this economy) and all have multiple fathers involved (if you want to count donating DNA and then never coming back an involvement). I think that is what upsets people: that many children, and none of them are being given mcuh of a chance to have a meaningful life as a contributor to society. But they need to let go of that stereotype. It's not okay to assume bad things about people based on their skin color even if you have a reasonable chance of being right. It's still racism.

I know large Latino and Filipino families, even approaching the size of the Duggars, that support themselves and are generally awesome. In fact, it's kind of a norm where I live. I'd love to see them on TV, but I think they might be too ethnic for the mainstream to identify with them.

[maybeizfundie]

^

What she said.

I'm not sure it's necessarily about race, or at least primarily not. It's the lifestyles that are the issue. Unfortunately some are more heavily associated with certain races in people's minds whether because of media or pesonal experience or whatever they observe going on locally.

[Olivia]

Honestly, I love smaller-large families (like 4 or 5 kids) but once we're talking about 10 or 15 kids, I start thinking there's something a little off about the parents. Race is not a factor in that. But I definitely do judge very large families, which may not be fair.

[emmiedahl]

I hate to say it Olivia, but I'm kinda the same way. I have five children and four stepchildren; I grew up in a family of seven (total; it was blended and we were not all there at the same time). But damn, once you get above ten it seems like all hell breaks loose.

More than ten or twelve children is not accepting what God gives you; it is baby gluttony. If you have a baby every two-three years throughout your reproductive years, not planning but just accepting what you get, you'll have ten max with very few exceptions. Anything more and I only assume you are trying to cram as many pregnancies as possible in there, and that's crazy. It's bad for the children also because they don't get their two to three years of being the spoiled little baby. Exhibit A: Jordyn-Grace.

[ladypuglover]

I don't think so but that is what our media chooses only to show. A large loving black, hispanic or asian family would be just as a big of a draw in my book.

[emmiedahl]

I would love to see a large family from another country!!! I'm sure there are middle class families in India (or similar non-Western area) with a lot of kids and I would love to know how they do it. I mean, we already know how Michelle does it: child slavery, neglect, and solicited donations.

[Beeks]

re: Family Matters, there WAS a younger girl, but they disappeared her. There was never any explanation of where she went, the family just suddenly went from three kids to two. That always bothered me!

[bananacat]

When Nadya Suleman had octuplets, I saw an interview on a news show with a black family that had had octuplets. They children were already in elementary school, and that was the first time I ever knew of their existence. The media made such a big freaking deal about the first sextuplets and septuplets, but both of those families were white. The first octuplets were black and didn't even make a ripple in the media. I couldn't avoid news of the Dilleys, yet I never heard about the first octuplets until another set were born. Anyone who thinks that's not racism is a deluded fool.

But I definitely think there's a large elemental of racism among Quiverfull families. Their stated goal is to outbreed other who aren't like them. It's partly about outbreeding other religious sects, but it's also about outbreeding other races (or just not being outbred by those other scary races that everyone says are taking over the country). And remember that race is somewhat tied to religion, so outbreeding Catholics would entail outbreed Latin-American people.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'm not sure if "we" (meaning the larger society) really do like large families, whether they're white or not.

Of the examples named in the article, most were fictional and most were on TV thirty or forty years ago. Yes, people liked the Bradys and the Waltons back in the day, but those kinds of programs have gone the way of CB radios. Large, fictional families have been replaced with reality TV families like the Duggars and the Gosselins. And I'm not sure if the audience really *likes* these families. They've been subject to much snark and criticism. The same holds true of other reality TV stars such as the cast of The Jersey Shore. It's a completely different brand of entertainment than Little House on the Prairie. If TLC or some other network came out with a reality show about a large black or Latino family, people would probably snark on them the same way we snark on the Duggars.

As for the welfare question, it has come up repeatedly with the Duggars and with other, less famous Quiverfullers. People tend to assume anyone with that many kids has to be on the dole. Large families also have to deal with environmentalists questioning them about their carbon footprint-- we've seen this with the Duggars as well. And if it's a family like the Gosselins or the Octomom, there are ethical issues regarding fertility drugs or in vitro fertilization that result in women having litters of children. So it's not as if the public is fawning over these white reality TV families. (At any rate, the Gosselin children are not white.)

[FloraDoraDolly]

When Nadya Suleman had octuplets, I saw an interview on a news show with a black family that had had octuplets. They children were already in elementary school, and that was the first time I ever knew of their existence. The media made such a big freaking deal about the first sextuplets and septuplets, but both of those families were white. The first octuplets were black and didn't even make a ripple in the media.

I do remember hearing about this family. IIRC, they were immigrants from Africa and lived in Texas.

[valsa]

I do think it would be interesting to go, say, shopping with a large, white QF family and then with a large black or hispanic family. QF families like to complain about the looks and comments they get when they go out, but I think the lack or hispanic family would get it far worse.

One thing I found really interesting is that I've gone shopping with co-workers and friends with multiple children (not QF big though) and there's usually a strange assumption that the non-white children are from different fathers. With white friends and co-workers, people include comments about the "husband" (we were not with any adult guys during any of these trips) With black co-workers, people would ask about their "boyfriend" and a few especially rude people outright asked if the children were full siblings. I also had a friend who was a white women with mixed children and, surprise surprise, people also assumed they were from different fathers. Other than race, I can't think of anything that would affect how people saw these women (all were low-middle class women in their mid-to-late 20s)

I think race definitely makes a difference.

[MrsKay]

I'd be just obsessed with fundies of color; however, the vast majority of fundies, esp. hardcore member of the QF movement, seem intent on breeding only lily white little fudies.

I had issues with Octomom b/c she was on welfare, went to an insane fertility doc, and popped out 8 kids - with 6 already at home. I never even gave a thought to her race, to be honest, until I read the article posted here! I'd be really interested to see large families of color portrayed in the media, but so many parents of color don't help the case when we see most of them on Maury, trying to find out who the "baby daddy" is. That's where so many of these people highlight themselves - it's very negative, highly unacceptable (for the majority of people) exposure. If people worked on less of this, and tried to portray more positive examples, it would help a lot.

[justlurking]

I'd be really interested to see large families of color portrayed in the media, but so many parents of color don't help the case when we see most of them on Maury, trying to find out who the "baby daddy" is. That's where so many of these people highlight themselves - it's very negative, highly unacceptable (for the majority of people) exposure. If people worked on less of this, and tried to portray more positive examples, it would help a lot.

I find this to be a very ignorant, uninformed statement to make. For years, people of color/minorities have complained about their lack of positive representation on television and in the media. Do you honestly think they are happy that the only way they appear to get any exposure is when someone is doing something wrong? There are very few minority media moguls. Most media is owned and distributed by white males who obviously see no investment in portraying minorities to be "normal" or like everyone else.

There are just as many "problems" in the white community, but because there's so much positive imaging to counteract the negative the white community is not as stereotyped. Imagine if things were reversed and the only way the white community was "highlighted" was through their exposure on the Jerry Springer show.

Your white privilege is showing. It's easy to make judgements about other people when you don't have to worry about being judged by the same criteria.

[JesusFightClub]

MrsKay, seriously. Why the heck are you taking the media as your guidance for what black families are like?

What would make anyone think that was a good thing to do? Oh yeah, racism and white privilege.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I would love to see a large family from another country!!! I'm sure there are middle class families in India (or similar non-Western area) with a lot of kids and I would love to know how they do it. I mean, we already know how Michelle does it: child slavery, neglect, and solicited donations.

There was some TV show specials for a while in Japan about families with many kids - and very often they were living in small apartments of only a few rooms. The normal living style is far more compact than in the US anyway but the TV show was definitely showing that "wow, can you believe they all fit?" aspect. As someone who was used to having only a desk of my own, even *I* was amazed! But, the overall attitude was "here are some families that have many children, as was more common in days gone past" and "look how thrifty they have to be" with a helping of "can you believe they manage!! The apartment is ready to burst!" Nothing was religious about it.

If anyone here reads Japanese, there's a list of some big families featured on TV on this page "summary of large families given a special on TV". There, 家 is "family" and in the description where it says Ｘ男Ｙ女 it means "X boys Y girls" (meaning the children). Alas I'm not having much luck finding video clips.

[JesusFightClub]

Gardenvarietycitizen, I read Japanese (although nothing like as well as I used to). Will try your link, wow! I can't imagine massive families in Japanese accommodation...thanks for this, that's absolutely fascinating!