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Love... fundie-style


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The other night I was thinking... it weirds me out when I read about a short fundie courtship and quick engagement where photos are posted about how "in love" the couple is and "look at these two fallin' in love" etc etc. Then of course, a Bible quote follows proclaiming how pure love is a gift from God and blah blah blah. Now, I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ... what I don't believe in is that an short courtship and fast engagement can be called "love". It's only just begun! Love to me takes time to blossom. It does not happen overnight. I'm not belittling "love". But a well-seasoned love I think is totally different from Daddy introducing you to someone, having little contact with the person except for in prayers and it's LOVE! I'm curious what you guys think.

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I believe there is love, and there is love. The first one is a complicated, mutual crush. You like each other a lot and honestly feel you will be together forever. The second one is what happens when the first one doesn't fade away to nothing, it takes time and it lasts. I truly believe that the love these fundies talk about is the first one, and thus not "true love".

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I believe there is love, and there is love. The first one is a complicated, mutual crush. You like each other a lot and honestly feel you will be together forever. The second one is what happens when the first one doesn't fade away to nothing, it takes time and it lasts. I truly believe that the love these fundies talk about is the first one, and thus not "true love".

I agree. I would like to offer though that I got married pretty quickly after I met my husband and we did transition from the first kind to the second during our marriage. I feel like it's a mistake to count on that happening though. We were lucky.

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I think the fundie response to this might be that their definition of love has much more to do with a choice/decision rather than with feelings. Although the mushy gushy way it's often talked about makes that a little hard to believe...

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I think the fundie response to this might be that their definition of love has much more to do with a choice/decision rather than with feelings. Although the mushy gushy way it's often talked about makes that a little hard to believe...

There is the action of love and the feeling of love and when I was growing up they got conflated quite a bit. What you said is almost literally what my parents told me. They said they "decided" to love each other. I believe what they meant was they decided to treat each other like they loved each other. I don't think they realized the feeling of love existed or was possibly separate than the actions you would do if you loved someone.

For example, when my kids or my husband are sick I take care of them because I love them and I want them to feel better. When my neighbor was sick I helped take care of her one afternoon because it was the right thing to do. My actions were the same, my feelings were different.

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I believe there is love, and there is love. The first one is a complicated, mutual crush. You like each other a lot and honestly feel you will be together forever. The second one is what happens when the first one doesn't fade away to nothing, it takes time and it lasts. I truly believe that the love these fundies talk about is the first one, and thus not "true love".

Agreeing with this. Some people are lucky and can fall in love right away and that passion can stay and turn into a serious love, one of respect, affection, and dedication that you would see, hopefully, in couples that have been together for a long time. Granted, I haven't dated many people, but I've been in a relationship for a few years. He's not my first romantic partner, and I think that's important. Previous men I've dated were either disrespectful or after a few dates and sexual encounters, the spark died. I learned what I like and what works in a relationship. Right now, we're working and we're happy, and it took years of getting to know each other better through good times and bad. The hardcore fundies that are discussed here still have puppy love or are still in the honeymoon stage. They don't know about the relationship that comes from "well-seasoned" love. I wish they had more freedom to date around.

That being said, I have plenty of friends who fall in love at the drop of a hat and will rapidly move in with their partner and declare that they are "in love" when, at least for one, it's the high of the honeymoon stage. Once that ends, they break up and find someone new. ( :angry-soapbox: Get to know them first before you move in! Three months does not give you enough time to know if they are hiding cadavers in the basement!)

Edited for minor typo.

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( :angry-soapbox: Get to know them first before you move in! Three months does not give you enough time to know if they are hiding cadavers in the basement!)

Longer gives them time to find the cadavers in your basement though. Such a quandary.

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My short, quick answer is that No, teenage and adult fundie children who have never been alone with the person they are engaged to after the dude asks Daddy's permission are not in love (most of the time- I will say that if the two have been eye fucking each other while their families "fellowshipped" and this managed to escape the notice of their parents they at least have physical attraction to each other). The "falling in love" as witnessed by their chaperones is likely the excitement of a new experience, a new time in their lives. I just don't think it's possible to truly love someone you've never had a chance to be intimate with- I'm not talking about sex here, but these kids don't even get to have a conversation alone before they get married.

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I knew my husband was "the one" in a very short amount of time. Within days, I told my father I'd met the man I was going to marry. Eighteen years later I can honestly say he's still the one. We remain very, very much in love. He was not the first man I'd ever dated, and he'd been engaged prior to me. We were 20 when we met, both living on our own and both in college. We lived together before marriage as well.

Despite our almost-love-at-first-site story, I don't think we are typical. I think the fundie "in love" is because it's the only damn chance the poor girl has of getting a brief respite of never ending work of caring for a 1/2 dozen or more small children. I think they WANT to be in love, and are more in love with the idea of love, than with their betrothed.

I think there is a lot of unspoken regret in these relationships.

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Longer gives them time to find the cadavers in your basement though. Such a quandary.

That's why I invest in fancy urns and a lighter. Good partners know how to clean up after themselves.

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To me, it's the ultimate expression of "fake it til you make it". If they keep dressing up these pseudo-arranged marriages in hearts & flowers, maybe the people involved will start to believe the hype. It's like talking somebody into a new food they're not sure about; as long as they don't immediately despise it, they'll probably manage to get through a small plate, one bite at a time. My own grandmother had a marriage like that & she prides herself on the fact that she "stuck it out" until she became a widow. She, unfortunately, got married for the wrong reasons - she wanted to leave home & the only prospect was a man 18 years older than herself. It's sad to think that some of these kids are going to have the same fate; get through life one day at a time and swear to everyone that you're content.

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Something that many fundies refuse to admit is that an individual can be wonderful and perfect for someone else and yet still not be loved by that person. Although we control our actions when we fall in love, we can't always choose to be in love.

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Love... fundie-style: hand sex, background check, dress code check, attitude check, virginity check, lame courthip, marriage.

Let's not forget face-nomming. Also, I wonder if the first time a fundie man makes a comment about his fiancee or wife's clothes not being modest enough is a magical moment :)

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LOL.

To me the magical moment was when, Josh, blabbering and bragging about modesty, not KISSING, being romantic, shoved a whole cucumber all the way down Anna's throat. I remember us jumping up, then falling down, rolling on the floor, screaming. It was hysterical!

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I think most fundie relationships (whether they follow the courtship model or not) stem from them doing what they think is the right thing to do. They've been trained in obedience from childhood, so when their parents tell them how their relationships should go and toss in a dash of holiness, they take that and run with it. Plus those who follow the QF model understand that they have to produce Babies for Jesus, so that's an added duty to consider.

I think they're also just horny, and since masturbation and pre-marital sex are right out, they have no choice but to get married ASAP.

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Well, arranged marriages have happened for centuries. This whole, romantic, marry for love thing is a fairly new notion. It was believed that once you married someone, you would grow to love them. I don't know how many happy marriages that made. I would assume that fundies take this attitude when they marry.

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Whether or not we realize it, there is a certain amount of choice involved. For example, just because you love someone doesn't mean you don't find anyone else in the world attractive. When you enter a monogamous, committed relationship, you're not necessarily saying, "You're the best/most attractive/smartest person in the world," you're saying, "You're the one I WANT to be with, and I CHOOSE not to pursue anything else because I love you and I want to be with you."

In some ways, I find that concept more romantic than the idea of "meant to be," "God's chosen," etc. In the former scenario, you have free will and still choose to tie your life to someone else.

EDIT: However, just because I think it's true that on some level we choose to love one another and move the love to that "deeper second level," I am, of course, all about free will and informed adults. Having Daddy involved is pretty much the antithesis of that.

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I think that courtship is romantic. When it's between two honest, genuine people who are in love. Too bad it's dying out. I mean real and old fashioned courtship here, lot of flowers, love letters (not text messages and forwarded emails, copypaste poems etc).

What I don't like about the fundie style courtship is the arrangement between families, lack of intimacy - you don't trust your own child that you yourself blanket trained? - and the precautions they take. The person must be this, must be that. I very strongly suspect that there is something like eugenics going on in fundiedom, which is appealing to me. So, courtship - ok! Fake and arranged fundie love - ko.

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This discussion makes me realize that on this trailer: transfer.kineticcontent.com/Betrothed%20HTML/main.html absolutely nothing is said about the whole "God's best" thing. It's all about letting Bret be a matchmaker for her. So which is it, then? A "biblical" model or just one in which the girl is not trusted to make her own decisions?

BTW shangrila pretty sure you mean "appalling" not "appealing."

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I think the fundie response to this might be that their definition of love has much more to do with a choice/decision rather than with feelings.

In my experience, very much this, with a little "you'll learn to love them once you're married" thrown in. My parents and in-laws love to say that "love is a choice, not a feeling." That they've remained married is proof that they're right, so their married children have all had very brief courtships on that principle. If the proposed spouse is okay (which means, "we have a peace about it" so it's obviously God's will and The Right Thing To Do), nothing can go wrong as long as you're doing what you're supposed to do.

The thing is, 90% of what you hear is just how wonderful marriage is, how it's God's plan, how happy you're going to be with the soulmate God has picked out just for you. Then it ends up not being an immediate deluge of sunshine and roses and unicorn farts, and you're completely blindsided with no idea how to really cope, so you fake it while trying desperately to figure out how you're sinning/Doing Things Wrong and making your marriage less than the perfect perfectness that is God's Will. I've seen it do a real number on people.

I completely agree that there is a lot of choice and commitment involved, and love isn't just a feeling. But if you don't even know the person you're committing to beforehand...

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My short, quick answer is that No, teenage and adult fundie children who have never been alone with the person they are engaged to after the dude asks Daddy's permission are not in love (most of the time- I will say that if the two have been eye fucking each other while their families "fellowshipped" and this managed to escape the notice of their parents they at least have physical attraction to each other). The "falling in love" as witnessed by their chaperones is likely the excitement of a new experience, a new time in their lives. I just don't think it's possible to truly love someone you've never had a chance to be intimate with- I'm not talking about sex here, but these kids don't even get to have a conversation alone before they get married.

Let us also not forget the sheer relief at not languishing in God-awful (to them) situation of being unmarried and not bearing children.

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