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Guest Anonymous

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I would actually be pretty surprised if she met the guy and then converted. If somebody is that observant, they normally wouldn't socialize with a woman of a different religion. It also usually takes years to convert to orthodox Judaism. My gut tells me she probably converted and then met the guy, not the other way around.

Everything you describe is very par for the course for orthodox Judaism (the wigs, the modest clothes, the dozen kids). It's not the lifestyle for me but your family member might be perfectly happy with it.

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Until the first of the year, she was attending a Christian church. When she came back from New York in the spring, she began to convert. So it's been less than six months.

My family members new in-laws are divorced. Her MIL works in the medical field. So I don't know how strict his sect (is that the proper word) is.

Wow, very interesting. I've never heard of an ortho conversion going that quickly. Pregnant, perhaps?

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Guest Anonymous

I wanted to be a lawyer and then the British Prime Minister when I was young. It didn't work out that way for me either. ;)

It sounds like she spent her 20s trying out different lifestyles to find what suited her. It wouldn't be my choice, but as long as it was hers, I would agree with Beeks, the stuff she is doing seems quite mainstream for the lifestyle she has chosen.

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Wow, very interesting. I've never heard of an ortho conversion going that quickly. Pregnant, perhaps?

Or she wasn't ready to tell anyone at first. I have a cousin who converted twice (to Reform and then with her husband to Orthodox) and they didn't tell anyone until the last few months. They just kinda slowly made the changes in their daily life until it became kinda obvious to most of us.

Women work in almost all sects, the Haredim/Hassidim men sometime study at Yeshiva full time well into the marriage and the wife works/supports the first few kids. It depends on the group though.

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As someone who appears just as shocking to her old friends (less so to close family because they were "in" on it), someone who is living to that level of observance didn't convert that quickly. There must have been a lot going on that you don't know about. And pregnancy wouldn't have pushed anything forward. In fact, it would have delayed things. Ms. Trump should not be used as an example because her case is not anything like anyone else's conversion. And because of that, the rabbis who performed her conversion have their other conversions questioned.

But there is a general Jewish idea that I think is relevant here. Judge people favorably because you never have all the information. I say that even in the case of Ms. Trump. My guess is that there is a lot going on that we don't know. I don't always like what this organization has to say, but there's a really nice article about this idea here: http://www.aish.com/sp/pg/What_Do_I_Know.html

But FTR, being an attorney, President, and mother to a flock of children isn't considered mutually exclusive in all orthodox circles! In fact, being an attorney is a pretty sweet idea for a stay-at-home mom business.

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. She is changing how she looks, acts and believes for some man because her clock was ticking. She settled and I find it sad and disgusting.

No. Just no.

You think she went through a formal Orthodox Jewish conversion program to "settle" or because her poor 20 something biological clock is ticking?

There are enough jerks around, I'm sure, that no one has to convert so that they're finally able to settle.

Really, I think you need to rethink your assumptions because that one makes no sense. None at all.

Edited because English is my native language, but I don't always type like it is.

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Guest Anonymous
I don't care for the family member because of a past issue. Any respect I had left for her is now gone. She is changing how she looks, acts and believes for some man because her clock was ticking. She settled and I find it sad and disgusting. BTW, she is in her late 20's.

From the sound of it you aren't going to like this person no matter what they do. You know what they say, if you don't like someone the way they hold their fork will drive you crazy, but if you love them they can spill their plate in your lap and you won't mind.

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No. Just no.

You think she went through a formal Orthodox Jewish conversion program to "settle" or because her poor 20 something biological clock is ticking?

Yeah, pretty much this. An Orthodox conversion is a really, really tough row to hoe, and if someone is at the level of observance you describe, I can almost guarantee that she was on that path well before the six month mark. And honestly, some of the comments being made make it sound like your issue isn't so much with the fact that she chose to be Orthodox, but with the fact that she chose to be Jewish. Personally, while I have a number of places where my opinion and the position of Orthodoxy diverge, if this woman chose to be Orthodox, more power to her. And as others have mentioned, seriously, if you're just looking to get married and/or knocked up, there are way, way easier ways to go about it than tracking down an Orthodox guy, wooing him, converting and marrying him.

I suggest taking a gander at Kochavah's blog (crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.com). She talks a lot about what people go through for an Orthodox conversion, and it ain't easy.

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I know a few Orthodox Jewish converts. The process can take YEARS, and it's hard. The rabbis desperately try to weed out those who aren't 100% sincere, such as those who are just doing it to marry a Jewish spouse, those that still cling to some of their old beliefs or those that aren't fully committed to observing everything.

The gender separation and modesty rules would seem shocking to you, but she would have chosen this deliberately.

Views on the role of women in the workplace range, but the glorification of being a housewife and never working isn't there in the same way that it is in the Christian fundie community. Historically, Jewish women had to work - at the turn of the century, the sweatshops of the Lower East Side in New York were filled with Jewish female garment workers, for example. In some circles, it is actually common for the women to be the breadwinners, because the men are busy with religious studies. There are huge numbers of Jewish Orthodox women in fields like physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, teaching, graphic design and accounting.

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Guest Anonymous

From the sound of it you aren't going to like this person no matter what they do. You know what they say, if you don't like someone the way they hold their fork will drive you crazy, but if you love them they can spill their plate in your lap and you won't mind.

I've never heard this said before, but I love it. :D

It sounds like the OP is pissed off by a relative and wants to 'turn them in' to fj, for snark purposes or whatever. But the case isn't strong, as it is presented so far.

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  • 1 month later...

An online student newspaper at a private Jewish university in New York lost its funding after it refused to take down a literary column detailing a sexual encounter between two students.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/08/jewish-university-school-newspaper-cut-ties-over-controversial-sex-column/?test=latestnews#ixzz1g39stIFd

 

Discuss among yourselves . . . .

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(Not) surprisingly, Fox News runs a story where the headline doesn't match the actual facts.

The university itself didn't pull funding. The student council provides a small stipend of $500/year to club, including the paper, and it was the student council that requested changes to the story after getting complaints from students. The paper preferred to refuse funding in order to be independent. Since the students themselves are the ones paying money toward the student council, it's not totally unreasonable for them to think that they should have some say over how that money gets spent.

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