Adeye has adopted AGAIN

[LilMissMetaphor]

Per the blog (No Greater Joy Mom) Adeye and Anthony adopted another child (it is not specified if she has special needs, and I don't like speculating based on pictures) last summer.  I would really like to know what steps they have taken to make sure all these children are going to be looked after once the parents begin to have their own health issues and/or pass away.  It is not fair to expect the older siblings to take on the burdens of providing for these kids.    

[JermajestyDuggar]

Do you have a blog link?

[LilMissMetaphor]

Yep, it's adeyesalem.com.  

[Yogi]

This is a new one for me so I checked out her blog. She pronounces her name U-day-U? Three syllables? Interesting, I have never heard this before. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hate when people completely change the names of children they adopt from another country. They are usually used to their names by the time they are adopted, You are already changing their last name to match your own. Isn't that enough? At least keep their first name and make it their middle name. I know it's such a petty thing but it bothers me. Plus they named a little girl Hunter? It's just so masculine. 

Sorry I should be focusing on the fact that they seem to be hoarding children but I'm just focusing on names....

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Anyone know what happened to her 4 embryos adoption?  Did the implants fail or did Adeye not go through with them There is no mention of them on her blog.

Might I just add that child collectors/hoarders make me stabby. Especially the ones who collect SN kids and have older non-SN kids who seemed destined, nay expected, to be the SN kids caregivers after the parents are gone.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I had to read a few archived posts, but I think what happened is 3 out of the 4 embryos didn't survive the thaw, and then later she updated that the last one didn't either.  And then she may have deleted any discussion/posts about it, I'm not sure.

[hoipolloi]

12 hours ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Per the blog (No Greater Joy Mom) Adeye and Anthony adopted another child (it is not specified if she has special needs, and I don't like speculating based on pictures) last summer.

Just curious (and didn't see anything whilst perusing her blog), is she connected to the Pearls & NGJ or does this refer to something or someone else? TIA!

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hate when people completely change the names of children they adopt from another country. They are usually used to their names by the time they are adopted, You are already changing their last name to match your own. Isn't that enough? At least keep their first name and make it their middle name. I know it's such a petty thing but it bothers me. Plus they named a little girl Hunter? It's just so masculine. 

Sorry I should be focusing on the fact that they seem to be hoarding children but I'm just focusing on names....

Same. It is such an enormous change already, and then they're expected to lose even more of their identity. 

Out of curiosity is it common for internally adopted US kids to have their names changed, or is it more an overseas adoption thing?

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Same. It is such an enormous change already, and then they're expected to lose even more of their identity. 

Out of curiosity is it common for internally adopted US kids to have their names changed, or is it more an overseas adoption thing?

It depends. Children adopted from foster care do not usually have their first names changed. Just their last names. They are older children and have gotten used to their names. Babies adopted from birth almost always have a name the adoptive parents have chosen. 

I think the biggest reason a lot of these people change the name of a child from other countries is because the names don't sound "American." But I personally don't think that's a good enough reason. 

[Terrie]

Some people actually advocate changing the names of children adopted from foster care as a symbolic "fresh start" but that seems to be a pretty minority view.  There are some more commonly accepted specific reasons to change the name of an older child, such as legalizing a preferred name they already go by, or because the child wants to change their name (kids, for instance, who were named for their abuser may not want the reminder). I've heard of cases where people were matched with a child who shares a names with an existing child and changed it for that reason, as well. 

For Adeye's most recent adoption, i will note that the recent entry is tagged "Down Syndrome." 

[scoutsadie]

9 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Just curious (and didn't see anything whilst perusing her blog), is she connected to the Pearls & NGJ or does this refer to something or someone else? TIA!

NGJ is just a term she likes; I've been following her blog for a few years and don't recall any reference to the Pearls or anything related to their methods or horrible ideology.

[AmazonGrace]

I could see a name change as a way for the family to symbolically make the child more their own. You get to name all of your biological babies but some stranger named these adopted children something you may not even like or be able to pronounce.  But the name is such a big part of the identity that I think in most cases you should keep the old name and just add something of your own.  The old name is connected to the child's roots and erasing it feels wrong, unless it's what the child wants for some reason.  

A name that matches the siblings' names in style might help the child to fit in and it'd be  less obvious who is  "the adopted child". If the other kids are Mason, Maddie and Abby and one is Nadezhda  every stranger can tell who is the odd one out just by hearing the names. 

 

[apandaaries]

4 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I could see a name change as a way for the family to symbolically make the child more their own. You get to name all of your biological babies but some stranger named these adopted children something you may not even like or be able to pronounce.  But the name is such a big part of the identity that I think in most cases you should keep the old name and just add something of your own.  The old name is connected to the child's roots and erasing it feels wrong, unless it's what the child wants for some reason.  

A name that matches the siblings' names in style might help the child to fit in and it'd be  less obvious who is  "the adopted child". If the other kids are Mason, Maddie and Abby and one is Nadezhda  every stranger can tell who is the odd one out just by hearing the names. 

This kind of reasoning(making the child more their own) is very parent-centered, rather than child-centered. Adoption is already traumatic for the adopted child; they are losing their family of origin.  Their needs really should be put first...though obviously, this doesn't always happen. 

As far as pronunciation, I love Uzoamaka Aduba's  quote about her Name: "My family is from Nigeria, and my full name is Uzoamaka, which means “The road is good.” Quick lesson: My tribe is Igbo, and you name your kid something that tells your history and hopefully predicts your future. So anyway, in grade school, because my last name started with an A, I was the first in roll call, and nobody ever knew how to pronounce it. So I went home and asked my mother if I could be called Zoe. I remember she was cooking, and in her Nigerian accent she said, “Why?” I said, “Nobody can pronounce it.” Without missing a beat, she said, “If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky and Michelangelo and Dostoyevsky, they can learn to say Uzoamaka.” 

I think adoption can be a wonderful, transformative event...but an adopted child DOES have a different history than biological children.   Names don't have to "match." Difference isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's something that IMO should be respected.  Different doesn't mean worse.

Not trying to attack here; I just tend to get riled up when the adoption conversation gets focused on the parents' needs and desires instead of those of the child. It happens so incredibly often, even with well-meaning people. 

[AmazonGrace]

7 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

 

Not trying to attack here; I just tend to get riled up when the adoption conversation gets focused on the parents' needs and desires instead of those of the child. It happens so incredibly often, even with well-meaning people. 

Is there a conflict?  I  feel like anything that helps the family feel like the adopted child truly belongs with the adopted parents and is a true part of the family could be in both the parent's and the child's best interests. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

39 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Is there a conflict?  I  feel like anything that helps the family feel like the adopted child truly belongs with the adopted parents and is a true part of the family could be in both the parent's and the child's best interests. 

But you can do that with a last name. 

[apandaaries]

29 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Is there a conflict?  I  feel like anything that helps the family feel like the adopted child truly belongs with the adopted parents and is a true part of the family could be in both the parent's and the child's best interests. 

So long as there is a divide between what "the family" wants and what the child wants, then yes, there's a conflict. The words used, to help "the family feel like the adopted child truly belongs with the adopted parents" shows that the parents' feelings are valued more than the child.  The child also needs to feel like they belong in that family and household, and it's the child who has been through the traumatic loss of their family of origin. 

Even for the kids in happy adoptive homes, adoptees are four times as likely to attempt suicide as non-adopted children: https://adoption.com/adoption-related-suicide-statistics-prevention

Most adoptive parents want what is best for their children.  But there are far too many others who are interested in adoption for selfish reasons (good photo ops, like Justin Harris; or to show how Christian they are, as Nancy Campbell recommended via Above Rubes; or sometimes because they're pedophiles). Given our human inclination towards selfishness, I am wary of any adotion in which the parents' needs or desires are placed above those of the child.

Every time an adoption discussion pops up, I am compelled to cite at least a few of these articles:

Evangelical adoption bullshit and fuckery: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia/

Fucking Justin Harris (I hope his God is vengeful): http://abcnews.go.com/US/young-girls-arkansas-state-official-center-adoption-controversy/story?id=34636997

Adoptees "rehomed"; AKA, these kids were likely sex trafficked: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/

Hana Williams, RIP: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html

 

 

[elliha]

Would I choose to adopt I would really like to add a name to the already existing ones for the child. With a small child I would pick it like I would with a biological child but with an older I would try to discuss it with them and find a name both parents and child like. We shouldn't erase the bio family but the adoptive family is also part of that child's history. 

My cousin is adopted, he has the name he had at the orphanage and the name his adopted parents chose. It is unclear if the name he had from the orphanage was the one his birth parents chose or if it was chosen by the staff. He has had some written contact with his birth parents but I know that it brought very mixed emotions for him so I have never asked for any details. It is not something I feel I have a right to ask too much about unless he wants to talk about it with me and he hasn't. 

[AmazonGrace]

Sorry @amandaaries but I don't really see what effing Justin Harris has to do with what I posted. It seems more like a knee jerk response than relevant to anything I said.

I believe that rituals have  power, that's why we have so many of them. In most cultures there are religious rites and important cultural customs when a new baby is born. You bless the baby and welcome it to the extended family and your religion, if any, you name the baby and the choice is often wrought with a whole lot of family history and other meanings. Last names are more by default, just one or two options in most cases, but first names are a choice.

 When you adopt an older child there aren't so many culturally established bonding rituals to welcome the child into the fold but  families can create their own symbols. Erasing the child's name and history would be bad but I'd argue that you could add something that comes from your family and make it a powerful symbol without erasing anything.  ..  Like when parents tell their kids about their name and the meaning of it. "This part of your name comes from your birth parents and this is what we know of their background... this part of your  name comes from our family and this is what it means to us, this is why we wanted to give you that name....So you see, you're both a part of  your biological background and a part of us..." It doesn't necessarily have to come across as, "we hate your original name and everything it represents because it comes from your shitty birth parents" .   An older child could choose a new name they like together  with the parents .

Obviously if the child is against or distressed about getting an additional  new name   it may be a bad idea but as all children are not the same it might work for some other families. 

I completely agree that the child needs to feel like they belong in the family but the thing is,  this might be pretty much impossible to  accomplish unless the parents also feel that the child belongs in the family so I tend to think that  anything that helps the parents and the child (and other relevant family members) create family bonds is eventually good for both

[apandaaries]

@AmazonGracepart of those links are knee-jerk, because I always post certain adoption links when the topic comes up.  All too often, people automatically praise adoptive parents; unfortunately, adoptive parents can be just as fucked up as biological parents.  It seems like a lot of people want to ignore the bad adoptive parents, but they exist. I also don't think enough people know about rehoming, so that link seems important too. YMMV.

Regarding names and such, you stated this,

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

 It doesn't necessarily have to come across as, "we hate your original name and everything it represents because it comes from your shitty birth parents" .   

But also this: "You get to name all of your biological babies but some stranger named these adopted children something you may not even like or be able to pronounce," so you'll excuse me if I was a bit confused about what you meant by renaming an older child or having cultural rituals with which to welcome the new child.

I agree that rituals have real importance for those who value them, but I can't think of a single adoption I know where the child didn't change their last name to the parents' last name.  I'm struggling to think of why a first name would need to be changed, unless it was something the child wanted.

Renaming an older child based on the desires of the parents (in this blog's case, to match the H theme, apparently, so Hunter she is!) doesn't put the child's needs first.  Instead, it seems to be a way for the parent/s to fulfill some fantasy-family image...and fantasies can be incredibly dangerous with adopted children (or any child, honestly; they really do come with their own personalities).  I think if someone is adopting, the needs of the child should be first, not the needs of the parents -- especially if the "need" is to have matching names. That's getting closer to a cult than a family.

[mango_fandango]

My cousin is adopted. He was called one thing, say Matthew Oliver (not real name), but my aunt and uncle swapped those two round (so like Oliver Matthew) and (I think) added another middle name, plus the surname. 

What about Chinese people who tend to adopt an English name? I’m guessing that’s OK if they choose it, and they can choose something that looks similar to their birth name. There was a Chinese girl in my year at school who went by Giulia even though her birth name was Qiuying. I remember the first couple of years of school she would try and get people to pronounce her birth name, but because Chinese is so different to English nobody really got it right. 

[Rubaiyat]

We have two children who came to us from foster care,  And were in elementary school when they came home.  We talked a lot about names before we finalized.  There’s sort of a story/theme to our 2bio kids names, so we changed the story just enough to include everyone’s name, and we tell the new story often.  We told our newbies that they could change all or part of their names if they wished.  They could choose new ones, or we could name them, or they could simply keep all or part of their birth names.  

We did give them the family last name, for several reasons, one of which being that their birth names and SSNs were already compromised and we wanted them to be able to enter adulthood without identity theft hanging over them.  We’re also hiding them from their family of origin as it’s a bad scene and that’s what they requested (read: begged us to do.) One kiddo opted to drop the last name of their abuser, but keep their original first and middle names.  The other kiddo opted to keep their entire birth name, adding our family name to the end, and making their former last name into a second middle name.  

I think, for our kids, that it was difficult for them to understand the enormity of those decisions, as everything in their lives was so overwhelming at that point. we talked and talked and talked, without making any decisions, and then urged them to go with Their first instinct that felt right, rather than overthink the situation. We also promised that, in the future, we’d happily pay to change any name they’d like.  

The above seemed to work well for everyone in our family.  But, as with many things, each situation/adoption/birth/family/etc... is so different.  We frequently say that, if there were one right way, we’d all be doing that!   So far, so good for us!   Ask me again after we’ve survived (please Rufus, let us survive) puberty and adolescence.  

[Georgiana]

I think it depends on the name.  In some Chinese orphanages, for example, the name the child is given is sort of a cipher or a lazy/temporary name.  There's a lot of work that goes into names in China, and naturally orphanages don't have the resources to do that, especially without a surname.  Chinese names are a "set".  Your name never changes in China, so your given name is supposed to interact well with your surname, so if you change a surname, you SHOULD be changing the given name so that it "works".  Naming is a very serious task, one that requires research and knowledge of ancient usages of characters.  It's not like here where your name might be just something your parents liked the sound of.  It's frequently outsourced to older, wiser people than the parents for this reason.  

And there is a LONG tradition in China of kids getting their "real" names later in life anyway.  If you're born to illiterate parents, they may not be able to "adequately" name you (usually they use numbers), and should you have the opportunity to learn, your teacher would traditionally give you your "official" name so that you have a respectable name you can use.  So culturally, the RENAME is expected, and your child may encounter some raised eyebrows if you DON'T rename them and they then carry this odd name that says to all of China "I was an orphan!  I wasn't wanted!  No one really named me!".  I wouldn't want my child to carry that stigma.  I would want their name to be one that makes people smile, that says "I was named with care".  

Basically, I expect to change my child's name if I adopt from China except in a very rare corner case.  I would give them both an English and a Chinese name.  However, it's also common for a different name to be used within the family, one that is informal, so I may continue to call them by their given name.  

 

3 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

What about Chinese people who tend to adopt an English name? I’m guessing that’s OK if they choose it, and they can choose something that looks similar to their birth name. There was a Chinese girl in my year at school who went by Giulia even though her birth name was Qiuying. I remember the first couple of years of school she would try and get people to pronounce her birth name, but because Chinese is so different to English nobody really got it right. 

You choose English names pretty young in China because you start learning English right away.  IN FACT, the trend is becoming parents assigning their kids unofficial English names to show how worldly and educated the parents (and by extension the family and the child) are.  My friends all send their kids to these prestigious schools, and they post class photos and such, and ALL the kids have English names now, even in pre-school.  Some of them are a bit bombastic, IMO, but most of them are very nice.  Well, except for Blue Star.  I have NO IDEA why someone gave their kid the English name "Blue Star" and no, it was NOT a translation of their given name.  Sorry about that, Blue Star.  

Edit: Also, I have a Chinese name. I use it when speaking Chinese, and it even comes with a surname (see above about Chinese names being sets that include the surname).  It's not even the least bit weird to have 2 names.  One I use in English and for official documents, and one I use in Chinese.  My parents and family don't even know my Chinese name, but it just makes operating in China or in Chinese so much easier when I have a name people can say and easily understand.  And when I use it, it shows that someone with a deep knowledge of Chinese cared enough about me to name me, which is something that is not insignificant.  

[AmazonGrace]

3 hours ago, amandaaries said:

@AmazonGracepart of those links are knee-jerk, because I always post certain adoption links when the topic comes up.  All too often, people automatically praise adoptive parents; unfortunately, adoptive parents can be just as fucked up as biological parents.  It seems like a lot of people want to ignore the bad adoptive parents, but they exist. I also don't think enough people know about rehoming, so that link seems important too. YMMV.

Okay so nothing to do with anything I have ever said or may reasonably have been misinterpreted to have implied. Thanks.

 

Quote

Regarding names and such, you stated this,

But also this: "You get to name all of your biological babies but some stranger named these adopted children something you may not even like or be able to pronounce," so you'll excuse me if I was a bit confused about what you meant by renaming an older child or having cultural rituals with which to welcome the new child.

Let's say the child's birth parents named him  Himmler Meinkampf Braun . I'd rename him  in a heartbeat, and not even be sorry.

Quote

I agree that rituals have real importance for those who value them, but I can't think of a single adoption I know where the child didn't change their last name to the parents' last name.  I'm struggling to think of why a first name would need to be changed, unless it was something the child wanted.

I don't think I said the first name would *need* to be changed.  Actually I advocated for keeping the name.  I just don't see anything wrong with adding an additional name  if it's something that helps the family bond.

 

Quote

Renaming an older child based on the desires of the parents (in this blog's case, to match the H theme, apparently, so Hunter she is!) doesn't put the child's needs first.  Instead, it seems to be a way for the parent/s to fulfill some fantasy-family image...and fantasies can be incredibly dangerous with adopted children (or any child, honestly; they really do come with their own personalities).  I think if someone is adopting, the needs of the child should be first, not the need for parents -- especially if the "need" is to have matching names. That's getting closer to a cult than a family.

 

Let's not be overdramatic.  I don't know anything about this particular family but just because all your kids have the same initials doesn't mean that you're an abusive cult leader who doesn't allow children to have personalities. You could be,  but we need more information.

All children and all families are not the same and therefore I don't think you can categorically state that putting the child's needs first means never change anything about their name.  If giving the child an extra name  works for the parents as the symbol of family  the children might feel some of that togetherness too . Some children might  like to be given the choice. If everyone else is matchymatchy some adopted children might want to fit in namewise and not be the obvious adopted child, the obvious odd one out, not to stand out as the new kid in the household. Some kids might prefer to change their name because they're a Jr and Sr was an abusive asshole or something.

The point is to get the child to feel accepted and not to feel like a stranger in the family. If you completely erase the previous identity  they were known as or add anything against the child's will  it might easily make the child feel like there is something wrong with who they were before the adoption. But if you want to give your adopted child a name that has special meaning to you and you manage to frame the matter  it so it works out for the child and everyone else concerned I am not opposed to it just because the parents like the idea.

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

 

All children and all families are not the same and therefore I don't think you can categorically state that putting the child's needs first means never change anything about their name.  If giving the child an extra name  works for the parents as the symbol of family  the children might feel some of that togetherness too . Some children might  like to be given the choice. If everyone else is matchymatchy some adopted children might want to fit in namewise and not be the obvious adopted child, the obvious odd one out, not to stand out as the new kid in the household. Some kids might prefer to change their name because they're a Jr and Sr was an abusive asshole or something.

The point is to get the child to feel accepted and not to feel like a stranger in the family. If you completely erase the previous identity  they were known as or add anything against the child's will  it might easily make the child feel like there is something wrong with who they were before the adoption. But if you want to give your adopted child a name that has special meaning to you and you manage to frame the matter  it so it works out for the child and everyone else concerned I am not opposed to it just because the parents like the idea.

To be clear: I'm not completely opposed to name changing, and all the examples I know of involve at least changing the last name.  It's parents choosing to change a name because they don't like it, decide they can't pronounce it, or "need" all the kids to have matching names. Adoptive parents overriding an adoptee's preferences is what bothers me, along with the corollary that doing so puts the parents' desires first, and the needs of the already traumatized child second.

If a child has a name that's hard to pronounce, that often indicates that the name is connected to another culture. Changing that because the adoptive parents don't care to learn how to pronounce it is insensitive and favors the stable adults over the child. If the child and parents come to an agreement about a name, that's different from the parents bestowing a new name upon a child.   I think this is an instance where the change has to be child-led.