Preparing for potential war?

[Jug Band Baby]

I think this is where to post for a topic for war since it involves politics.  I'm worried that's going to be a war.  NK's leader isn't any more stable than Trump, and NK is obsessed with bombing us.  I want to make contingency plans to get my kids north into Canada if that happens.  Everyone including my husband thinks I'm worrying for nothing, and my best friend yelled at me for being "too stressed" about this.  I just want to make sure they live.  My plans were just to get them passports so that we can drive north if we need to, and to keep a few days supply of food and drink in the trunk with some blankets and a few changes of clothes, and that's being called too much.

What is the line for how much we should prepare?  All my friends say we shouldn't even bother, and I saw we should have a plan a and b in place.

[Cleopatra7]

I've been thinking about the same, and if we do get into a war with NK, I honestly think we as a species will be so screwed that there's nothing individuals can do to ameliorate the situation. I think it will take about 30 minutes for a NK missile to reach LA. And these are modern missiles of the sort that make the ones that fell on London during the Blitz look like sparklers. If nukes are involved, then it's MAD (mutually assured destruction). Given what happen to Iraq and Libya, NK has no reason to think that it will be in their benefit not to use the nuclear option if necessary. 

[tropaka]

I'm in Canada - many missiles aimed from NK at US would spend a good deal of travel time over Canada. http://nationalpost.com/news/why-canada-would-be-directly-in-the-way-of-a-north-korean-nuclear-war/wcm/6ec86d53-adcf-4d45-9791-2d536b4537a0

[Penny]

I was fearful of war when TT became president. 

[Palimpsest]

What @Cleopatra7 said.  Nuclear war has been "unthinkable" since WWII.  I hope it stays that way.  The nuclear missiles today are far more destructive than the bombs that fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The Doomsday Clock is still ticking.  http://thebulletin.org/timeline

[Penny]

I just had a thought. If the Russia investigation ramps up and we are close to impeachment, I wonder if TT would decide to bomb North Korea as a distraction? I hope not.

[NotQuiteMotY]

9 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

I want to make contingency plans to get my kids north into Canada if that happens. 

That might be safe if you could get some guarantee of missiles not being nuclear. That's what I'm most worried about. Regular would be bad enough- I say this living in the northeast corridor- but nuclear means that we're all dead, just some slower than others.

[Cleopatra7]

The buildings around my university campus still have the fallout shelter signs on them, so maybe those will come in handy soon. Although I've been told that if a nuclear attack happened, all the buildings would collapse and you'd be buried alive, fallout shelter or not. Maybe we really will be celebrating Christmas at ground zero this year:

 

[candygirl200413]

MSNBC velshi & rhule gave a nice explanation on how to protect yourself if you are in the crossfire so that is pretty terrifying. My dad keeps saying nothing will happen but both leaders are so unhinge its so terrifying.

[Smash!]

It's important to think the unthinkable. The art is still to be positive around those fears.

[Bethella]

16 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

My plans were just to get them passports so that we can drive north if we need to, and to keep a few days supply of food and drink in the trunk with some blankets and a few changes of clothes, and that's being called too much.

I live in a rural area and it isn't uncommon to get stuck in the woods, so I keep stuff like this in my car emergency kit all the time, including: water, emergency rations, flares, a first aid kit, candles, matches, a sleeping bag, a tarp, a shovel, a saw, a hatchet, a multi-tool, jumper cables, tow ropes, an emergency phone charger and I'm forgetting what else. This is regional to me, but two years ago, two women got stuck and survived for 13 days on girl scout cookies- http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Sisters-Lost-in-Michigan-Woods-Survive-on-Girl-Scout-Cookies-Love-301318571.html If those preparations would also help me get to the border in an emergency, that's a side benefit.

One thing new I've done since Trump was pull out my old hiking backpack. Instead of sitting in the attic, it now resides in my bedroom closet in case I need to pack it quickly.

[ADoyle90815]

Warning :NSFW due to language.

[onekidanddone]

Anybody know this one?

 

 

[Howl]

14 hours ago, Bethella said:

I live in a rural area and it isn't uncommon to get stuck in the woods, so I keep stuff like this in my car emergency kit all the time, including: water, emergency rations, flares, a first aid kit, candles, matches, a sleeping bag, a tarp, a shovel, a saw, a hatchet, a multi-tool, jumper cables, tow ropes, an emergency phone charger and I'm forgetting what else. <snip>

@Jug Band Baby, Yes to very practical preparations for survival in case of any emergency/being stuck in your car, especially if you live in a place with real winters.  Something to stay warm (blankets, sleeping bags), food (some cans of soup with pop tops and spoons) and water, diapers if you have babies.  Charging cables for devices, fresh batteries and flashlights, and get in the habit of not getting below a half tank of gas.  

@Jug Band Baby, Yes to getting your kids passports, for a practical reason.  A passport is unassailable truth of American citizenship.  When they begin to apply for jobs, it's one document for completion of the I-9 form and done. It's nice to be able to do a spur-of-the-moment trip to a foreign country.  Disclaimer: DH and I are not spur-of-the-moment-trip-to-a-foreign-country type people, but still.

I mean this as a kindness -- do these things for practical reasons and not driven by anxiety.  

I grew up in Alaska during the duck-and-cover days (1950s), where we did drills at school on how to cower under our desks when a nuclear blast, courtesy of Russia, was a real threat.  My dad was stationed at the air force base in Anchorage and we were required to keep survival gear in the trunk of our car in case the base had to be evacuated due to nuclear war or the threat of it.  The Ed Sullivan show had a cartoon showing the effects of a nuclear blast and parents were cautioned to get the kids out of the room because it was deemed too damned scary for them to watch.  In retrospect, it was about as scary as Saturday morning cartoon shows, but a different time and place. 

I point out the anxiety element because children shouldn't be exposed to this free-floating fear that something awful/dreadful/unimaginably horrible might happen at any moment.  In the way that modern warfare would play out, I can't think that Canada would be any type of refuge better than hunkering down at home with our fellow citizens. 

Just do the things that have a practical application to keep your family prepared for any type of any emergency/natural disaster and you are good to go and don't have to worry about it. 

I have no fear that NK will actually start a war and it seems that back-channel diplomacy is going on.  Even NK understands they could be annihilated in a heart beat.  NK may be crazy but they aren't stupid, and China has signaled that they no longer have NK's back, so they are pretty much going it alone. 

[VixenToast]

You'd be stuck in traffic when th everyone trying to get to Canada.

The only way Im leaving Nebraska is through my death (unless of course I acquire the money necessary to buy an amaaaaaazing and gorgeous house in Lutsen or Tofte, MN., and then helloooooo Minnesota).

There is nothing you can do. Just make sure not to frighten your kids, that's all, really.

[Zola]

I live in a house built in the 50s, and the people who lived here then had a bomb shelter built in the basement. Nothing big, nothing fancy, but rather sturdy-looking indeed.

When we first moved in 3 years ago, we thought it would be nice for a tornado, but we live in a mountainous area, and I can count on one hand the number of tornadoes to hit here over the past couple decades - a total of 1. I remember it well. The wind made a sucking sound instead of blowing, and the trees in its path were torn up and twisted and scattered like they'd been kicked and shoved by an insolent child in tantrum.

Now I'm seriously considering fully outfitting our modest little shelter. I've used it as a storage space, but I think it might be best to sweep it out and load the shelves with goods and supplies, put some folding cots and chairs in there. Thank you, elderly couple who lived here in the 50s.

[GrumpyGran]

40 minutes ago, Zola said:

I live in a house built in the 50s, and the people who lived here then had a bomb shelter built in the basement. Nothing big, nothing fancy, but rather sturdy-looking indeed.

When we first moved in 3 years ago, we thought it would be nice for a tornado, but we live in a mountainous area, and I can count on one hand the number of tornadoes to hit here over the past couple decades - a total of 1. I remember it well. The wind made a sucking sound instead of blowing, and the trees in its path were torn up and twisted and scattered like they'd been kicked and shoved by an insolent child in tantrum.

Now I'm seriously considering fully outfitting our modest little shelter. I've used it as a storage space, but I think it might be best to sweep it out and load the shelves with goods and supplies, put some folding cots and chairs in there. Thank you, elderly couple who lived here in the 50s.

Hot damn! I'd sure sleep better at night now if I had a bomb shelter in my basement. But there are no basements here. I'm further from the danger zone than most of you, except our non-American friends here. But son and wife with grandson, step-daughter and granddaughter are closer to it.  I have considered that if the worst happens I may have to co-opt a boat and head south. Glad we got passports when Trump was elected.

[Howl]

On 8/12/2017 at 10:12 AM, VixenToast said:

You'd be stuck in traffic when everyone is trying to get to Canada.

In 2008 (if I'm recalling correctly) Houston was forecast to be in the path of  Hurricane Ike and many people evacuated, only to be completely stuck on an interstate in a stupendously large traffic jam.  

I also don't get the "bug out" concept.   Something happens, you take off to "somewhere" ostensibly better, safe from harm or something.  Your house typically has everything you need, to some extent and you know your neighbors.  Sit tight. 

[WiseGirl]

I'm screwed I live outside of NYC in the lovely NE corridor.  I'd be lucky to make it to the bottom of my hill before I encountered a load of traffic. But I do have a trusty hurricane/storm kit.

[onekidanddone]

7 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

I'm screwed I live outside of NYC in the lovely NE corridor.  I'd be lucky to make it to the bottom of my hill before I encountered a load of traffic. But I do have a trusty hurricane/storm kit.

I'm at ground zero.  So with luck I won't know what hits me.

[VixenToast]

Well at least in Nebraska I should be mostly safe from bombs. Except we have Ouffut AFB, safe house of all presidents in national emergencies. Perhaps that means it's the safest, but if the Pres. is here, Omaha would be a prime target if the interior of the country was penetrated.

[HurricaneBells]

7 hours ago, Howl said:

In 2008 (if I'm recalling correctly) Houston was forecast to be in the path of  Hurricane Ike and many people evacuated, only to be completely stuck on an interstate in a stupendously large traffic jam.  

I also don't get the "bug out" concept.   Something happens, you take off to "somewhere" ostensibly better, safe from harm or something.  Your house typically has everything you need, to some extent and you know your neighbors.  Sit tight. 

In a hurricane i would stay yes. As for bugging out, it may be a good idea to stay home for the first two days or so but by the time you work out you should have gone, its too late and you cant get out hence why you bug out at the first indication. If there is no food, water, fuel, cash (and there may be day 1 but not by say,  day 5) then people are desperate. Desperate people will do desperate shit to feed their children/survive. I would be "bugging out"" as far away from society as i could get. It all gets a bit extreme but i think most of us see the sense in having some canned food, batteries, water and whatever else you might need at the ready. Modern Civilisation is so perilous.  I highly recommend American Blackout (2013) if you've not seen it. Complete anarchy in just 10 days from an attack on America's power grids. Fascinating with a really sad shitty ending ( the girl shouldn't have left her home!)

[VelociRapture]

Doing a spoiler because I wrote more than I expected.

Nuclear Bomb:

Spoiler

Here's an article regarding the best ways to survive a nuclear blast:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/01/how-survive-nuclear-explosion

Granted, this is based off a lower powered nuke (which is the type they think a terrorist is most likely to use), but it's a good starting point. Highlights:

- the less time you spend unsheltered the better. 

- if you have a poor shelter and a higher quality one is less than five minutes away on foot, run there as soon as possible. Take only what you need to survive the first day or two - more could just weigh you down.

- if you have poor shelter and a higher quality shelter is more than 5 minutes away, then you need to arrive at that shelter within 30 minutes of detonation. 

- however, there is no way to know what travel time will actually be in many places, especially high density areas (hi from Connecticut!) So it could be better to stay hunkered down where you are for at least the first 12 hours.

Our personal plan is this:

1. If husband is at work he'd likely be ok. He'd just stay there in the concrete basement the first 12-24 hours before coming to find us.

2. Our condo has an above ground basement with windows. Not safe. So I would take the baby, the dog, and whatever supplies I could grab across the street to the small office buildings. It looks as though they may have below ground basements. Even if they didn't they're likely built better than our home and would be a better choice at first.

3. If there wasn't time for that, then we'd hide in the car in our attached garage and I'd just hope we survive (and if death was certain, that my daughter and dog would go as quickly and painlessly as possible.)

Normal Bomb/Attack like September 11th:

Spoiler

If you aren't in the immediate area then staying put and listening to reports (on tv, the internet, or radio)  may be for the best. The average person likely won't be able to do much to help and may just make things worse by being out on the roads - more cars on the road makes it tougher for emergency vehicles to get to the scene.

If you are in the immediate area, do your best to get somewhere safe. If emergency personnel are present then listen to what they're telling you to do and if you're uninjured try to stay out of the way or help others get away if you can.

And everyone should remember that lines of communication will likely be overloaded in the immediate aftermath. So if you don't hear from a loved one immediately try hard not to panic completely - they could be trying to reach you and just can't.

@Jug Band BabyI don't know your specific circumstances, but I completely get the fear you feel as a parent. It's 2017 and I can't believe I'm sitting here thinking about how to try and keep my baby safe. Or that I honestly typed that I hope my child dies quickly and painlessly if survival isn't a possibility for us.

My best advice for you is to try and remain calm. If you panic in the moment then you won't be capable of focusing on what needs to happen to give your family the best chance. Coming up with a plan now and reviewing it regularly can be a big help with that since it could just become an instinctive thing. 

[JMarie]

Weird Al Yankovic to the rescue!

 

[Bethella]

20 hours ago, Howl said:

I also don't get the "bug out" concept.   Something happens, you take off to "somewhere" ostensibly better, safe from harm or something.  Your house typically has everything you need, to some extent and you know your neighbors.  Sit tight. 

I think it really depends on both the situation and how long it's going to last.

• I've had to evacuate due to flooding, we had 30 minutes to pack and get out in the middle of the night. We stayed with friends on the far side of town for a week.
• If it's a nuclear attack, then yes I would probably shelter in place.
• If it's an attack on the power grid? We could survive here at home for probably a couple of weeks but if it ends up being longer my family would go to the family farm where we could survive long term without power (hand-pumped well, fields that are big enough to grow food for all of us, gas-lights and oil lamps, wood for the stove)

I could go on but I think you get my point- don't set things in stone and be ready for multiple eventualities.