Fundie lite SAHM on weaving in Jewish traditions

[lilwriter85]

I've gotten sucked into the blog of Ashley Lancaster. There was a recent thread about her here being discussed on GOMI. She is friend of Lyndsie. I was looking at one of her Q&A postings and this came up. She got into celebrating Passover and she is kind of annoying about it.

 

ourhappilyeverafters.com/2009/12/ashley-answers-part-2.html

 

Quote

What is a family tradition you would like start with your family?

Along with Jesus Christ being the total focus of our family and finding unique ways to train up our children the the faith, we want to make Disney World trips a family tradition Also, I have a love of weaving Jewish tradition into our Christian heritage, which includes celebrating Passover. My grandfather gave me all of his notes on Judaism and how we can celebrate elements of it as Christians. Fascinating! You can read my posts about it HERE and HERE.

 

Here are the entries she links

 

ourhappilyeverafters.com/2008/04/tradition.html

 

 

Quote

Well, I've been thinking about this lately. I'm reading through the Bible in a year (that's the goal, anyway), and I've been reading the story of the Jewish people in Exodus. And I am fascinated!

 

Here's the deal: I love culture. Hence the fact that I lived in Europe for a semester, I've been to Peru, France, Mexico, Wales, Scotland....you get the picture. I love how certain people groups have a distinct culture. The Greeks, for example. When I lived in Cape Girardeau for several years, my best friend was Greek. Her family heritage was very strong, and her parents had even been married in the Greek Orthodox church. They had become Christians and had a real relationship with Christ since then, but they still retained their Greek heritage and culture. Taylor's mom would make baklava, the dessert made with yummy filo dough, and lentil soup.

 

 

Quote

With all of this in mind, I began to research the Jewish culture and heritage. I am going to Israel in June, and this got me thinking (especially around Easter): Why can't Christians celebrate the tradition of Passover? We share a heritage with them, "God's chosen people." Although the changes took place when they did not accept Christ as the Messiah, they have deep Biblical roots. In talking with my parents about this, my mom reminded me that her father used to do a Jewish passover service when he was pastoring their church in Arkansas. He gave value to this tradition of remembrance.

 

ourhappilyeverafters.com/2008/04/for-new-jewish-scholars.html

[JMarie]

Does she not understand that Greek Orthodox is a Christian denomination?

[GeoBQn]

So Greek Orthodox is not Christianity, and the Passover seder has no fucking "value" without changes by a Christian pastor from Arkansas.

[Jinger Jar]

Apparently her grandfather's notes were wildly deficient.

[yewchapel]

Ummmmm, Greek Orthodoxen are Christians. And what a dumbass, there's more than one Greek culture - Greek Sephardic Jews, for example.

Don't get me started on the pastor being the one giving value to the fake seder.

[Dysfundamental]

Hate and rage. The cultural appropriation is heinous. Flames! On the side of my face!

[lilwriter85]

Does she not understand that Greek Orthodox is a Christian denomination?

I also meant to comment on that in my initial post. I was multitasking and I forget. When I read the part about the friend's Greek Orthodox parents, I was thinking "Ashley is an idiot."

[danvillebelle]

I know two people already said it, but I'll say it again - Greek Orthodox CHRISTIANS are CHRISTIAN (dumbass).

Once some fundie do-gooders visited Vespers at the parish where my oldest attends. They were chatting over coffee afterwards and explained that they'd come to get some idea of an Orthodox service, because they were about to take a missionary trip to Greece where, I quote, "we just want to take the Bible to them in their own language." :angry-banghead:

You can't make this shit up.

[lilwriter85]

Ummmmm, Greek Orthodoxen are Christians. And what a dumbass, there's more than one Greek culture - Greek Sephardic Jews, for example.

Don't get me started on the pastor being the one giving value to the fake seder.

I agree with this. I got the feeling that she under the assumption that all Greeks are Greek Orthodox. I see a lot of similar assumptions when it comes to other cultures. I'm come from a very regional Hispanic culture and my culture differs from other Hispanic cultures. Many people I automatically assume that , eat certain foods, listen to certain genres of Spanish music or do things like quincenearas etc. I get annoyed having to explain to people that the different types of Hispanic cultures.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Bitch, Orthodox Christianity is WAY closer to the early Church than your harebrained legalism.

[DistantStar]

I have two coworkers from Romania, and one is Catholic while the other is Eastern Orthodox. One country does not equal one denomination of one religion. FFS, I once knew a Baha'i woman from Iran who had Iranian Jews in her family background. Neither is exactly the stereotypical religion of that country for sure.

And people lifting Jewish traditions and turning them to about Jesus pisses me the fuck off. I know that's crude but really, it does. It DOES. NOT. WORK. It is rude and ignorant at best, and far worse (personally the word "evil" comes to mind) when it's about trying to convert Jews to fundamentalist Christianity by pretense. My father's side is Jewish, my mother's side Christian. I've somehow ended up an Episcopalian (I've been all over the place religiously, really) but I know plenty enough about ACTUAL Judaism to not go lifting crap left and right. Should I want to go do something Jewish, I'll go do something that is actually Jewish, like go to a REAL Seder, or hit their services. I am not going to go perverting half of my cultural heritage to fit the other. And I wish to God that the fundies would stop doing it!

[Kishiria]

Uhm, the New Testament was originally written in Greek? Telling the missionaries that would probably make their heads explode.

[Guest Anonymous]

Her complaint that Americans don't have a culture is a bit ridiculous. Has it occurred to her that the reason she thinks Greeks and Jews have these weirdly simple, clear-cut, easily identifiable cultures is because she's creating those cultures with stereotypes, simplifications and generalisations?

Her markers for Greek culture are:

1) the Greek Orthodox Church

2) eating baklava and lentil soup

3) saying "Yaya" and "Papou"

4) the movie 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding'

She could just as easily construct an "American" culture using similar markers:

1) Protestant Christianity (the largest/most popular group of religious denominations in the USA, according to Wikipedia)

2) eating apple pie and hot dogs

3) saying "Grandma" and "Grandpa"

4) the movie 'Sweet Home Alabama'

There you go, Ashley. There's no need to appropriate anyone else's traditions. Just apply your own stupid standards to your own country!

Note 1: OK, I'm being flippant and if I have offended anyone with my use of stereotypes then I apologise.

Note 2: I'd also like to write a whole thing about how Ashley exoticises her friend Taylor (and Taylor's family) but I am way too tired and disorganised to do it.

[lilwriter85]

Her complaint that Americans don't have a culture is a bit ridiculous. Has it occurred to her that the reason she thinks Greeks and Jews have these weirdly simple, clear-cut, easily identifiable cultures is because she's creating those cultures with stereotypes, simplifications and generalisations?

Her markers for Greek culture are:

1) the Greek Orthodox Church

2) eating baklava and lentil soup

3) saying "Yaya" and "Papou"

4) the movie 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding'

She could just as easily construct an "American" culture using similar markers:

1) Protestant Christianity (the largest/most popular group of religious denominations in the USA, according to Wikipedia)

2) eating apple pie and hot dogs

3) saying "Grandma" and "Grandpa"

4) the movie 'Sweet Home Alabama'

There you go, Ashley. There's no need to appropriate anyone else's traditions. Just apply your own stupid standards to your own country!

Note 1: OK, I'm being flippant and if I have offended anyone with my use of stereotypes then I apologise.

Note 2: I'd also like to write a whole thing about how Ashley exoticises her friend Taylor (and Taylor's family) but I am way too tired and disorganised to do it.

I was also a bit annoyed with her saying that America doesn't have a culture. I agree with you on the bolded part. I think the huge problem with Ashley is that she doesn't think deeply about how there can be factions within certain ethnic groups. With her logic, she is bound to really piss off someone someday. I wonder if her friend Taylor reads her blog.

[GodsKnickers]

And people lifting Jewish traditions and turning them to about Jesus pisses me the fuck off. I know that's crude but really, it does. It DOES. NOT. WORK. It is rude and ignorant at best, and far worse (personally the word "evil" comes to mind) when it's about trying to convert Jews to fundamentalist Christianity by pretense. My father's side is Jewish, my mother's side Christian. I've somehow ended up an Episcopalian (I've been all over the place religiously, really) but I know plenty enough about ACTUAL Judaism to not go lifting crap left and right. Should I want to go do something Jewish, I'll go do something that is actually Jewish, like go to a REAL Seder, or hit their services. I am not going to go perverting half of my cultural heritage to fit the other. And I wish to God that the fundies would stop doing it!

It very much reminds me of the Mormons and their penchant for proxy baptism. I'm sure the uber-fundies would crap their drawers if you pointed that out though.

[DistantStar]

Actually it reminds me more of people doing the same thing to NA religions, stealing bits and pieces becaues they're all cool and New Agey and shit. Mormon proxy baptisms for the dead are just as arrogant, IMO, but in a different way.

I'm just not down with ignorant cultural thievery. There are ways to incorporate things from other cultures or religions. But there are also ways NOT to. Of course the fundies don't care because they are right and everybody else is wrong, except maybe the Jews who are only sort of wrong.

[lilwriter85]

Actually it reminds me more of people doing the same thing to NA religions, stealing bits and pieces becaues they're all cool and New Agey and shit. Mormon proxy baptisms for the dead are just as arrogant, IMO, but in a different way.

I'm just not down with ignorant cultural thievery. There are ways to incorporate things from other cultures or religions. But there are also ways NOT to. Of course the fundies don't care because they are right and everybody else is wrong, except maybe the Jews who are only sort of wrong.

I have encountered people who have done that too. I remember in the movie Keeping the Faith, a rabbi and a priest do that.

[patsymae]

I humbly suggest to the fundies that if they truly want to honor the Jewish people, they leave them the hell alone.

[lilwriter85]

I humbly suggest to the fundies that if they truly want to honor the Jewish people, they leave them the hell alone.

I agree with this, but I don't see Ashley or other fundies doing that. I hope that Ashley gets some of smack down someday for the stuff she is doing.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's past my bedtime, so I'm just laughing at some of this stuff.

She writes with the maturity of a teenager. "Oh wow, Jews and Greeks! Look how exotic they are!"

[LadyBlue]

A friend of mine & her husband are fundie light, I guess and also into appropriating Jewish traditions. I have no clue where it came from, they live in a small town in northern Alberta , but I find it disturbing, tacky & confusing.

[lilwriter85]

A friend of mine & her husband are fundie light, I guess and also into appropriating Jewish traditions. I have no clue where it came from, they live in a small town in northern Alberta , but I find it disturbing, tacky & confusing.

Those are the best words to describe it. I remember reading or hearing something that the reason fundies celebrate Jewish traditions is so they can be closer to Christ.

[jenny_islander]

My old Lutheran church held an annual Passover Seder in order to be closer to Christ because the pastor spent so much time explaining the context of the Last Supper that it just seemed easier to demonstrate it. But he also carefully enumerated the ways in which our reenactment was not the real thing. Starting with the fact that nobody in our entire congregation was Jewish!

[julie paradox]

I recently read a book by Michelle Guinness (brought up British Jew, converted to Christianity at university, married poorest member of the famous family who iirc was ordained) who described how (at her instigation) their church held a Seder in much the same way as jenny_islander's.

She also told the story of a parishioner saying how lovely it was to hear that the Jews used "our" psalms...

(I got rid of the book because I found both her and her writing style immensely irritating.)

ETA: I was a bit disappointed to discover this thread had nothing about how Jewish tradition incorporates weaving ;-)

[Mice]

I was also a bit annoyed with her saying that America doesn't have a culture. I agree with you on the bolded part. I think the huge problem with Ashley is that she doesn't think deeply about how there can be factions within certain ethnic groups. With her logic, she is bound to really piss off someone someday. I wonder if her friend Taylor reads her blog.

I think you pretty much nailed it there.