Jump to content
IGNORED

Chaviva has haters :(


LucySnowe

Recommended Posts

Someone asks Chaviva questions she doesn't like = haters.

kvetchingeditor.com/2013/04/ask-chaviva-anything-hater-edition.html

I'm rather confused by the contradictory nature of your adherence to tznius. You dress very modestly and yet you talk quite freely about matters which are rather intimate and inappropriate for the public sphere. Just today you posted about vibrators on your facebook page - isn't it a bit contradictory to be modest in dress and yet not in behavior?

I dunno, I think it's a perfectly legitimate question. One would assume that a person who actively promotes a modest appearance would also apply such an ideal to other aspects of public life. But no, this question must be mocked as coming from a hater, because obviously this questioner considers Chaviva's post about vibrators* to be "utter scandal". And this requires lecturing the hater on not understanding tsanua - even though her own definition includes "speech, actions, how you carry yourself, the company you keep, the way you eat, the way you sit, everything". Which, um, would include Facebook posts?

But then again, "Ask Chaviva Anything" is actually "Ask Chaviva Anything except about her weight, or how old her husband is, or what her prospective inlaws think about her staying frum, because she'll publicly smack you down for that".

[awaiting being labelled as a hater in 3...2....]

*The original post was about British pharmacies stocking vibrators. Which they do:

http://www.boots.com/en/Pharmacy-Health ... sage-gels/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I think it's okay for someone to define modesty in terms of clothing but to be more free in speech and other areas. This is often criticized as "legalism," which apparently Protestants detest, but we Jews don't necessarily think it's a bad thing.

But as you say, Chaviva does seem to have a wider definition of modesty, so she shouldn't be surprised when her readers hold her to it. The smackdowns on her blog do get tiresome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, what you're confused about is what tzanua is. Above all, I frequently remind people about the many layers of tzanua, because as I discovered when I did The Tzniut Project a few years back, many people see tzanua as a very shallow thing -- cover the elbows, cover the knees -- when it's about so much more. It's speech, actions, how you carry yourself, the company you keep, the way you eat, the way you sit, everything.

I love how Chaviva's response to criticism that she doesn't practice modesty in speech (by mentioning vibrators) the way she practices modesty in dress is that the commenter is not aware that tzniut includes modesty in speech along with modesty in dress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mixed feeling on Chaviva and how she speaks about herself, and maybe "haters" is too strong a word, but the comment from the person who wouldn't give her marriage 6 months was very rude, that is the sort of thought that's best kept for oneself.

Also, I don't know that much about her way of seeing modesty, but it looked like she was making a kind of jokey post, she wasn't really sharing something intimate (btw I used to live in England and never noticed the vibrators in the pharmacies).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it's rude to tell someone their marriage won't last six months. But someone politely asking you to explain perceived discrepancies on an issue that you yourself are promoting (modesty) isn't even in the same ballpark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone asks Chaviva questions she doesn't like = haters.

kvetchingeditor.com/2013/04/ask-chaviva-anything-hater-edition.html

I dunno, I think it's a perfectly legitimate question. One would assume that a person who actively promotes a modest appearance would also apply such an ideal to other aspects of public life. But no, this question must be mocked as coming from a hater, because obviously this questioner considers Chaviva's post about vibrators* to be "utter scandal". And this requires lecturing the hater on not understanding tsanua - even though her own definition includes "speech, actions, how you carry yourself, the company you keep, the way you eat, the way you sit, everything". Which, um, would include Facebook posts?

But then again, "Ask Chaviva Anything" is actually "Ask Chaviva Anything except about her weight, or how old her husband is, or what her prospective inlaws think about her staying frum, because she'll publicly smack you down for that".

[awaiting being labelled as a hater in 3...2....]

*The original post was about British pharmacies stocking vibrators. Which they do:

http://www.boots.com/en/Pharmacy-Health ... sage-gels/

Yep, sounds like a legitimate question to me! I think Chaviva is interesting, but this refusal to acknowledge a request to explain her apparently inconsistent attitudes toward modesty smacks of fundamentalist thinking to me. If there was a good explanation, I feel like she'd have put it forth, instead of just talking about haters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pretty much though, "And I'm out," when Chaviva wrote that post about living in a settlement in Israel and spent paragraphs basically trying to justify it by saying (in summary), "You just don't understand! Settlements aren't what you think they are! They have a community there, and people, so it's totally cool!" Her responses to questions about that whole thing were very comparable to her response to the tzniut question here. "Oh, you just don't understand properly. If you did, you'd completely agree with me and what I'm doing!" That seems to be her go-to tactic in responding to criticism or even slightly difficult or pointed questions.

I also think she's gotten more fundamentalist over the last year or so, maybe in an effort to try and "make up" for the whole falling off the derech, dating a non-Jew thing? In any case, she seems happy, and I wish her well, but I don't really read her blog anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For someone who considers herself a social media professional, she's really not good at it when it comes to her own image. She overshares information—like putting her mailing address on her blog or publicizing details about her new non-Jewish boyfriend—then acts astonished when people react to it. I can understand that she's sensitive about things like her husband's age, but instead of calling people haters for asking about all she has to do is politely say that she's not comfortable discussing it, or that there is an age difference but it isn't important in their relationship. "OMG, you don't know me!!!" is not a good strategy. I was hoping that aliyah would be a fresh and positive start for her, but it looks like it's SSDD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could write so much on this topic. Instead I will say that I've been forcing myself out of the habit of typing her blog into my browser for about 2 months now. I just can't do it anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old is her husband, anyway? 80? 18? Why is it a big secret?

He's 35.

A fact I discovered three minutes ago by going to Chaviva's Facebook page, clicking on the link to her husband's Facebook page, and looking at his birthdate. And this article, published sometime after April last year, said she's 29:

tomorrowthemag.com/articles/pros-and-converts

If age is irrelevant, fine, don't mention it on your blog. The man being 5-or-so years older is about as mainstream as you get in this society, so I can hardly imagine anyone doing more than shrugging if you do talk about it. Why this is worth berating a questioner in public, I don't get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's grasping at straws. The wedding is over, she's settling into Israel, she's trying to find the next great "thing". That might just be her lifestyle, she needs to move from one exciting thing to the next, jump from place to place, but I always feel like "well, here's what she's going to be blogging about exclusively for the next 6 months...".

As somebody who read her blog frequently, I was starting to feel kind of manipulated. She would hint at something interesting, "I'm going to share some things I've been thinking a lot about in the next few posts"...*picture of kitchenaid stand mixer* I don't know how to explain my feelings on it, but I'm honestly disappointed. It's like she posts just enough to keep her numbers up, but I never feel like I'm reading anything substantial anymore.

I expect this will be responded to after she discovers this thread in her daily googling of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She certainly sets herself up for unpleasantness by inviting us to "ask Chaviva anything!" but then getting offended when readers take her up on her offer. Don't tell people to do something and then get mad when they do it. I suppose it gives all her diehard fans an excuse to get up in arms on her behalf, which must feel good for everyone involved. Also, the concern about the age difference between her and her husband is bizarre. I'm 37; my husband is 42. Other than his having an abiding love for Adam Ant that I don't share because I wasn't listening to popular music in the mid-1980s, the age difference is not problematic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't follow Chaviva, but in what way does she think that age difference is an issue? My husband and I are the same distance apart but I'm the older one, which is way less common, and no one gives us a hard time about it.

(Well, except for my MIL's initial concern that I would have more trouble submitting, since I was so grown up and independent and all. Ha. Fortunately now she has decided to leave that issue up to God to convict me about.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it's a problem in her circles. But, five years is nothing! Maybe it's significant in her circles, or is personally an issue for her, and is not anyone's business anyway, but I don't think most people would bat an eye at five years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old is Chaviva? My partner is 16 yrs older than me, so this seems like no biggie unless she is a teen.

But I was "out" with her settlement logic too. There is no justifiable reason for living in a settlement. And Chaviva, if you read here, I am an ex-Zionist Jew so you can forget about screaming "anti-Semitism."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She hasn't said anything that I know of about the age difference, but she got really touchy when someone asked how old her husband was. My first thought was that maybe it was a May December relationship (it was unlikely to be the other way around, as her husband has a nine year old kid) and she felt uncomfortable discussing it...but no, she was just snapping at someone who assumed that 'ask me anything' meant just that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tznius is slightly different than just "modesty". It also can mean 'privacy', etc. In a lot of community situations the standards of tznius are defined by everyone (or you know, men) and are not exactly just personal. Most of the orthodoxy that I know would find vibrator talk to be untzniut. I don't practice at all and don't care, but it is a legitimate question particularly if its coming from a religious person. I'm very unclear on their Judaism- are they like messianic and adopted some but not all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very unclear on their Judaism- are they like messianic and adopted some but not all?

No, Chaviva is rabbinically Jewish, but there have been some fluctuations in her level of observance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pretty much though, "And I'm out," when Chaviva wrote that post about living in a settlement in Israel and spent paragraphs basically trying to justify it by saying (in summary), "You just don't understand! Settlements aren't what you think they are! They have a community there, and people, so it's totally cool!" Her responses to questions about that whole thing were very comparable to her response to the tzniut question here. "Oh, you just don't understand properly. If you did, you'd completely agree with me and what I'm doing!" That seems to be her go-to tactic in responding to criticism or even slightly difficult or pointed questions.

I also think she's gotten more fundamentalist over the last year or so, maybe in an effort to try and "make up" for the whole falling off the derech, dating a non-Jew thing? In any case, she seems happy, and I wish her well, but I don't really read her blog anymore.

This, all of it. I like Chavi and respect her willingness to be open about her ups and downs in her journey in the past, but when you're willing to do that in a religious world that doesn't necessarily condone those things, especially not for converts and all the tension that brings, don't be surprised if you get publicly smacked down for it. She's been through a lot, and I do see a lot of trying to overcompensate for her OTD days.

And that settlement post was...special. "No, really, I don't see any bad things happening to the Arabs! Everything's awesome! If only you knew just how awesome, you'd be convinced it was awesome too!" It was head-meets-wall oblivious in its tone. Have the decency to acknowledge the realities of your situation, whether or not you've personally experienced them.

And yes, Chaviva is halachically a Jew by Orthodox standards. I've never heard the term rabbinically a Jew before though, and I'm a convert - technically my conversion was also rabbinic as it was supervised by three ordained (Reform) rabbis at a beit din. She converted Reform first, then converted Orthodox a few years later. She went hardcore into the world of Teaneck, then divorced, moved to Colorado, and publicly announced she was experimenting with things like kashrut and dating a non-Jew. And then an epic, epic smackdown ensued on her blog and she locked it down and shut the archives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never heard the term rabbinically a Jew before though, and I'm a convert - technically my conversion was also rabbinic as it was supervised by three ordained (Reform) rabbis at a beit din.

Rabbinic Judaism is mainstream Judaism, as distinct from messianic or Torah-observant Christianity (sometimes referred to as faux Judaism).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rabbinic Judaism is mainstream Judaism, as distinct from messianic or Torah-observant Christianity (sometimes referred to as faux Judaism).

I take/appreciate your point about messianic/"Torah-observant" Christianity, but usually Rabbinic Judaism is positioned in opposition to Karaite Judaism (Karaites being Jews who follow only what is in the Tanakh, and not what the rabbis wrote in the Gemara/Talmud).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take/appreciate your point about messianic/"Torah-observant" Christianity, but usually Rabbinic Judaism is positioned in opposition to Karaite Judaism (Karaites being Jews who follow only what is in the Tanakh, and not what the rabbis wrote in the Gemara/Talmud).

Right, I meant I was using it in that sense here in response to the question asking if she's messianic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, I meant I was using it in that sense here in response to the question asking if she's messianic.

Oh! Gotcha. I guess I tend to think of the options in that case being "Actually Jewish" and "messianic/not-Jewish" :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh! Gotcha. I guess I tend to think of the options in that case being "Actually Jewish" and "messianic/not-Jewish" :)

Oooh, I get it now :D I'm like stonefruit - I would normally just go with Jew/messianic Christian, but the way you're using the term makes sense too. Thanks for clarifying!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Recent Status Updates

    • Scrabblemaster

      Scrabblemaster

      I danced through my living room feeling awesome. From time to time I do this. Maybe wine is involved. Good music is definitely involved. It is awesome. I recommend it to you. With or without wine.
      · 2 replies
    • Hazelbunny

      Hazelbunny

      After a few months of trying to decide what kind of new computer to get and my brother telling me a Mac would be the best decision I could ever make and my sister telling me that would be the worst and I ought to stick to Windows.... I now have a used Mac. I am trying to get used to it. Not easy, but the Magnifying program is a lot better than the Windows one (that was the ultimate reason for my decision) and FJ works a lot better than on my 10-year old Laptop, too!!  
      · 0 replies
    • WannabeHistorian

      WannabeHistorian

      Y'all, holter monitors suck. And naturally the palpitations that caused this test to be ordered are remarkably absent today. 
      I'm off to go work out in the hopes that triggers it. T minus 10 hours till I get this thing off. 
      · 3 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      Fuck Fornicate.  Glad I got in to see this place before the world went to shit.
       
      · 0 replies
    • PreciousPantsofDoom

      PreciousPantsofDoom

      I frigging hate the toilets at this worksite. Specifically the door locks. Stupid little knoblet that isn't clear if it is locked or not. Door opens right off the main hallway and the toilet is just far enough from the door that I can't just hold the door shut in case I've got the lock wrong. I mean really people, how hard is it to design this? I just want to pee in private with no anxiety. Apparently that is too much to ask for. 
      · 1 reply
    • 47of74

      47of74

      First thing I'm doing when I get to the hereafter is finding the ancestors who moved to the US in the first place and asking them what the fuck they were thinking moving here in the first place.  Along with giving them an epic the reason you suck speech hopefully in the presence of God and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself to all of them for condemning their descendants to living in a shithole.
      · 0 replies
    • feministxtian

      feministxtian

      Its STILL snowing. Its not like I don't have a million things to do and need to take crap to the dumpster. 
      · 2 replies
    • Chocolate Lover

      Chocolate Lover

      Do any of you play Dyson Sphere Program?   For those who don't know what it is I'd suggest Googling it, because there's no way I could do it justice. 
      There's always just one more thing to do before I turn off.  Blink!  And it's 2 hours later.  
      · 0 replies
    • Granwych

      Granwych

      I have a chance to undergo esketamine treatment for depression.  If any FJers have any thoughts, I’d appreciate them.
      · 3 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      Do I even wanna know?

      · 0 replies
  • Recent Blog Entries

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.