Another Article Begging Men To Date Good Christian Women

[debrand]

Have you ever heard the fairytale about the princess in shining armor? You know the story. She crosses an ocean, slays a dragon and rescues the man she loves?

Wait. You've never heard that one?

OK, neither have I.

One of the reasons that I loved the myth of Psyche was that she went after her man. Until she killed her children, I liked the story of Jason and Medea because she takes such an active part. When I was a child, I wanted to be the hero saving the man. I also liked the fairytale about the princess with seven brothers. Her step mother turned her brothers into swans and to save them she had to sew dew flowers into a shirt for each brother but she had to remain silent during the process. A king finds the silent woman and marries her. However, she is accused of killing her baby and can't talk to defend herself. At the last moment, her brother's swoop in and she throws the shirts over their heads, turning them into seven princes.

Although they might not kick ass, there are strong women in fairy tales and myths.

Now I realize that fairytales are stereotypical, admittedly even a little sexist. But they do contain a measure of truth. These whimsical tales we learn as children mirror a deep-seated longing in the soul of every man and woman.

I like fairytales and folk legends especially from other lands but I don't have a need to be rescued. Fundies need to stop speaking for everyone and just accept that we are all different.

If that's you, then I have some no-nonsense advice: It's time to man-up and take the lead in the romance department. And don't hide behind the whole too-holy-for-love façade. When you meet "the one," pursuing her with all your heart is the most spiritual thing you can possibly do.

I have never wanted to be pursued. The idea is terrifying. Ask me out or I'll ask you out but accept my no's mean no.

Here is feedback that Kiesling received directly from real-world single Christian women about Christian men.

"God didn't create you to be passive. Pursuit seems to be obsolete, but we still want to be pursued."

"It seems like men aren't willing to take the risk of asking a woman out, since they don't have to anymore. There are plenty of women who will chase them, yet I won't. I want them to pursue me."

"Quit saying, 'I'm waiting on God to bring me my future mate.' What a cop-out! You're scared, and you're afraid of being hurt or rejected and — gasp! — you might be tempted to have sex!

"

Fine, those girls can sit their asses at home, waiting desperately for some guy to save them while the bad girls chase the guy, have sex and get to decide if the relationship will evolve or they will go on to other things.

First, our increasingly politically correct culture tells guys that women have equal responsibility when it comes to initiating the relationship.

Oh my goodness, a woman might take some chances in her life. She might take the same risks as a man!

But here's the rub. While such political correctness is peddled in higher education and the media, it usually doesn't apply in the real world, where women still appreciate a man with the gumption and guts to make the first move

It depends on the woman, the man and the situation. I've known plenty of woman that made the first move and the couple were happy.

There are many articles like this, begging Christian guys to date the right kind of girl. Are Christian fundie and fundie lite males really passive or are the 'good' Christian girls being passed over for the more modern woman?

boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001750.cfm

[canela]

Hey fundie guy who wrote this stupid article, I guess you don't read much because in fact, I have read that story. It was one of my favorite children's books. Look it up! They might even have it in the "Indoctrinating your children to evil liberal ideas" section at your local public library. If you are brave enough to "rescue a damsel," you are brave enough to enter the stacks there.

Thanks, but no thanks for the Prince charming type dude. Many thanks for the partner who gives and receives help/support on equal footing.

ETA riffle and Thanks Robert Munsch for writing great books.

[Childless]

I'm not sure about fundies, but moderate Christian (and even most fundie-lite) guys don't want a doormat. They want someone who takes life by the horns and goes after what she wants (whether that be relationships, education, career, or a hobby). Most guys don't want a woman who does nothing all day long except sit on her ass waiting for life to happen. Those women come off as pathetic and who wants to spend time with someone like that?

[sunshine]

One of the reasons that I loved the myth of Psyche was that she went after her man. Until she killed her children, I liked the story of Jason and Medea because she takes such an active part. When I was a child, I wanted to be the hero saving the man. I also liked the fairytale about the princess with seven brothers. Her step mother turned her brothers into swans and to save them she had to sew dew flowers into a shirt for each brother but she had to remain silent during the process. A king finds the silent woman and marries her. However, she is accused of killing her baby and can't talk to defend herself. At the last moment, her brother's swoop in and she throws the shirts over their heads, turning them into seven princes.

Although they might not kick ass, there are strong women in fairy tales and myths.

I like fairytales and folk legends especially from other lands but I don't have a need to be rescued. Fundies need to stop speaking for everyone and just accept that we are all different.

I have never wanted to be pursued. The idea is terrifying. Ask me out or I'll ask you out but accept my no's mean no.

"

Fine, those girls can sit their asses at home, waiting desperately for some guy to save them while the bad girls chase the guy, have sex and get to decide if the relationship will evolve or they will go on to other things.

Oh my goodness, a woman might take some chances in her life. She might take the same risks as a man!

It depends on the woman, the man and the situation. I've known plenty of woman that made the first move and the couple were happy.

There are many articles like this, begging Christian guys to date the right kind of girl. Are Christian fundie and fundie lite males really passive or are the 'good' Christian girls being passed over for the more modern woman?

boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001750.cfm

Christian men should date and marry Christian women, but normally they date and marry women who are not Christian. It could be the complex of saving a woman that they can make her into the one or attracted to whatever attritubes she has and just marry her anyway.

I understand your point, but Christians must hold themselves to a higher standard compared to the world's view on relationships and not all do.

I do know that the right Christian woman is not waiting on her butt; depending on the family dynamic they are out there doing Kingdom work (working for God). From a outside view, it looks stupid because other women are chasing after guys getting married and they appeared happy. For a woman to chase after a man may appear fine, but there is an underlying of it all where they are sacrificing something that can vary from one woman to another. At the end of the day, there is a choice to serve God and pursue his plan or seek the world because we don't want to appear like a prude to others.

[merrily]

When you have to write an article analyzing why someone wants to date YOU, you're doing something wrong. Kinda like those people who make powerpoint presentations as Valentines day gifts.

[RachelB]

Hey fundie guy who wrote this stupid article, I guess you don't read much because in fact, I have read that story. It was one of my favorite children's books. Look it up! They might even have it in the "Indoctrinating your children to evil liberal ideas" section at your local public library. If you are brave enough to "rescue a damsel," you are brave enough to enter the stacks there.

Thanks, but no thanks for the Prince charming type dude. Many thanks for the partner who gives and receives help/support on equal footing.

ETA riffle and Thanks Robert Munsch for writing great books.

I bought that book for a second cousin who was going through a princess phase. I also evilly inscribed it "With love from [real name]" so she couldn't trade it in. A little feminism on the bookshelf wasn't going to hurt.

[Michael Mock]

"But here's the rub. While such political correctness is peddled in higher education and the media, it usually doesn't apply in the real world, where women still appreciate a man with the gumption and guts to make the first move."

...Except that it clearly does apply in the real world, where these Christian men are apparently finding plenty of people who aren't sitting around waiting to be pursued.

[treehugger]

Oh good grief! If I hadn't asked my husband out for the first date he would still be living at home completely oblivious to females in general (I actually had to sit on his lap to get him to notice me!). We also would not be happily married or have our beautiful daughter. So,I took the lead in our relationship - big deal. It sure as hell doesn't make him any less of a man (or me any less of a woman for that matter).

[Almost]

Oh good grief! If I hadn't asked my husband out for the first date he would still be living at home completely oblivious to females in general (I actually had to sit on his lap to get him to notice me!). We also would not be happily married or have our beautiful daughter. So,I took the lead in our relationship - big deal. It sure as hell doesn't make him any less of a man (or me any less of a woman for that matter).

Nope, sorry. Clearly he's not the leader of your spiritual household, which means you're probably his unequal yoke. Way to keep a man down.

edit: it occurred to me immediately after posting that as a newb I should maybe keep the sarcasm in check until it's actually clear when I'm being sarcastic. ^That was it.

[javafriend]

"At the end of the day, there is a choice to serve God and pursue his plan or seek the world because we don't want to appear like a prude to others."

Umm, maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but I think there are actually a whole bunch of choices out there, not just two. And phrases like "pursue his plan" suggest that there is a plan somewhere in the Bible. Where would that be exactly?

[Shirley MacLaine]

Historically, I have not taken all that much initiative and I still have managed to have more boyfriends than Jesus probably approves of. Maybe this is just a Christian man problem.

(That said, I would love to have taken more initiative and done the approaching - the only thing stopping me was insecurity and a fear of rejection, not ~every woman's desire~ to be pursued by a man.)

[Funky Chicken]

Christian men should date and marry Christian women, but normally they date and marry women who are not Christian. It could be the complex of saving a woman that they can make her into the one or attracted to whatever attritubes she has and just marry her anyway.

I understand your point, but Christians must may sometimes choose to hold themselves to a higher different standard compared to the world's view on relationships and not all do.

I do know that the right Christian woman is not waiting on her butt; depending on the family dynamic they are out there doing Kingdom work (working for God). From a outside view, it looks stupid because other women are chasing after guys getting married and they appeared happy. For a woman to chase after a man may appear fine, but there is an underlying of it all where they are sacrificing something that can vary from one woman to another. At the end of the day, there is a choice to serve God and pursue his plan or seek the world because we don't want to appear like a prude to others.

There, I fixed it.

To the last bolded: WTF? Do you even go here?! "Sacrificing" what, exactly?

[Boltingmadonna]

I think these people are pontificating about fairy tales without really having read many of them. They probably have vague memories of Cinderella and Snow White (the movie versions) and believe themselves experts on that basis. I guess they've never read "East of the Sun and West of the Moon," "The White Bear," or "Finist the Bright Falcon"--all similar stories from different countries, in which a brave young woman endures many hardships and uses cunning and skill to rescue her man. There's a wonderful book called "The Serpent Slayer," by Katrin Tchana, which is full of fairy tales from different cultures about brave women doing great deeds. And if you look it up on Amazon, you'll see several more collections of tales featuring brave female heroes. These stories exist. They just get overlooked because it's easier to make false stereotypes.

[debrand]

I do know that the right Christian woman is not waiting on her butt; depending on the family dynamic they are out there doing Kingdom work (working for God). From a outside view, it looks stupid because other women are chasing after guys getting married and they appeared happy. For a woman to chase after a man may appear fine, but there is an underlying of it all where they are sacrificing something that can vary from one woman to another. At the end of the day, there is a choice to serve God and pursue his plan or seek the world because we don't want to appear like a prude to others.

I'm not certain if you are being sarcastic or not.

Instead of stupid, I would use the term, arrogant.

There are starving children, kids being ganged raped, women being abused by their husbands, and a great deal of misery in the world. All those people cry out to their deities for help. Most will not receive any assistance for their suffering. Yet, god will help some extra special western woman who expects him to drop a man into her lap.

Neither men nor women should chase after one another. That is called stalking. However, asking someone out and respecting their right to tell you, no isn't chasing anyone.

What is being sacrificed?

[erunerune]

Boundless is so many kinds of fucked up regarding gender roles & relationships that it has been an endless source of entertainment/horror for me. Reading the articles, blog posts, and !especially! the blog comments always make me appreciate my husband even more for not being a FotF fundie douche canoe. I always ask myself "And people want to live their lives this way WHY exactly?". There's really nothing tempting about the kool-aid they're drinking, but I may just be inherently immune.

Go ahead, read pretty much any Boundless thread involving the subject of dating/relationships/marriage, it's bound to make your blood boil, your beverage squirt out your nose, and/or make you laugh so hard your cats will be scared to approach you for a bit. Then be scared and donate to a cause that is not determined to set women (and men) back 50 years.

[Claddagh]

Christian men should date and marry Christian women, but normally they date and marry women who are not Christian. It could be the complex of saving a woman that they can make her into the one or attracted to whatever attritubes she has and just marry her anyway.

I've known plenty of Christian men and women who have dated and even married outside of their religion. Many of them have been very happy.

I understand your point, but Christians must hold themselves to a higher standard compared to the world's view on relationships and not all do.

Maybe it's just me but this comes off too much as "Nyah-nyah! My God is better than yours!" Why all these groups stop worrying so much about standards and just try to be decent human beings? You know what they say about the higher the fewer...

From a outside view, it looks stupid because other women are chasing after guys getting married and they appeared happy. For a woman to chase after a man may appear fine, but there is an underlying of it all where they are sacrificing something that can vary from one woman to another.

Mom asked my Dad out on the first date. Dad was impressed that Mom made the first move and they were married for 31 years before Mom died.

[Abby_B]

Hey fundie guy who wrote this stupid article, I guess you don't read much because in fact, I have read that story. It was one of my favorite children's books. Look it up! They might even have it in the "Indoctrinating your children to evil liberal ideas" section at your local public library. If you are brave enough to "rescue a damsel," you are brave enough to enter the stacks there.

Thanks, but no thanks for the Prince charming type dude. Many thanks for the partner who gives and receives help/support on equal footing.

ETA riffle and Thanks Robert Munsch for writing great books.

Omigosh! I love that book! Thanks for reminding me of it. And yes, this guy is a total idiot. There are lots of myths and fairytales where the princess saves the day. Boundless has always been about 10-20 years behind the times.

[desertvixen]

Here is feedback that Kiesling received directly from real-world single Christian women about Christian men.

"God didn't create you to be passive. Pursuit seems to be obsolete, but we still want to be pursued."

"It seems like men aren't willing to take the risk of asking a woman out, since they don't have to anymore. There are plenty of women who will chase them, yet I won't. I want them to pursue me."

"Quit saying, 'I'm waiting on God to bring me my future mate.' What a cop-out! You're scared, and you're afraid of being hurt or rejected and — gasp! — you might be tempted to have sex!

I like the last one, actually.

There's also a big difference between pursuing and, you know, displaying interest. I personally like the guy to make a first move, or at least give me a hint, but that's because I have several incidents in my closet where I pined after guys who weren't interested. But that's just me.

And yes, their reading of fairy tales is not very extensive, apparently.

[Conuly]

In addition to the fairy tales mentioned, what about Katie Crackernuts, Alenoushka, Vasilisa, Maid Maleen, Tam Lin's Janet/Margaret...?

Honestly, they may be old fashioned, but the best thing you can do for your kids is invest in some actual fairy tale collections if you're just going to spout of about things you don't know.

[galaxygirl]

Have you ever heard the fairytale about the princess in shining armor? You know the story. She crosses an ocean, slays a dragon and rescues the man she loves?

Wait. You've never heard that one?

OK, neither have I.

In the words of Buffy Summers: "You know me, not much with the damseling"

[notsocommon]

Hey fundie guy who wrote this stupid article, I guess you don't read much because in fact, I have read that story. It was one of my favorite children's books. Look it up! They might even have it in the "Indoctrinating your children to evil liberal ideas" section at your local public library. If you are brave enough to "rescue a damsel," you are brave enough to enter the stacks there.

Thanks, but no thanks for the Prince charming type dude. Many thanks for the partner who gives and receives help/support on equal footing.

ETA riffle and Thanks Robert Munsch for writing great books.

Omigosh! I love that book! Thanks for reminding me of it. And yes, this guy is a total idiot. There are lots of myths and fairytales where the princess saves the day. Boundless has always been about 10-20 years behind the times.

Hell, even the BIBLE has a story about a princess who saves the day..... But we know fundies don't read the Bible.

[B5SnowDog]

Christian men should date and marry Christian women, but normally they date and marry women who are not Christian. It could be the complex of saving a woman that they can make her into the one or attracted to whatever attributes she has and just marry her anyway.

Riiiight... my husband dated and married me because he has a savior complex. :roll:

[jenny_islander]

I know somebody who kept getting into relationships with women who needed a knight in shining armor. It took one divorce in which he lost custody, one almost-marriage that ended when he realized just how dysfunctional the woman was (and 15 years later she is still occasionally trying to get us to help her stalk him), and a near-divorce from his present wife to teach him that there are two types of princesses in towers. Some can't imagine life beyond the drama of being the princess in the tower, so they do things like demand that God heal their mental illness out of the blue sky rather than accepting the medication and therapy that God is sending them. Others don't actually have towers yet; they want towers so that they can climb them like kudzu and get annoyed as the towers break down under the strain. And then there are the women who don't want knights, dammit, they want partners, and if their husbands keep up the knight act they may eventually leave.

[Gothardgrrl]

I do know that the right Christian woman is not waiting on her butt; depending on the family dynamic they are out there doing Kingdom work (working for God). From a outside view, it looks stupid because other women are chasing after guys getting married and they appeared happy. For a woman to chase after a man may appear fine, but there is an underlying of it all where they are sacrificing something that can vary from one woman to another. At the end of the day, there is a choice to serve God and pursue his plan or seek the world because we don't want to appear like a prude to others.

The desire to be pursued by a man is not necessarily Biblical. Many of the women portrayed in the Bible are much stronger and more assertive than fairytale women. Men as the pursuers is a cultural norm based on social factors and most of those social factors are no longer present in modern western society.

I understand the desire to live in a fairytale. I had that desire as a little girl. But Christianity is not that fairytale. Attempting to live that fairytale as an adult stunts your growth, limits your ability to see good things for what they are, and weakens your thinking. You will not convince anyone of your views if you embrace a simplistic world view.

[Maggie Mae]

Vim thinking that the few time I was "pursued" I thought I was being stalked. I guess I should have read my bile first and submitted to what I'm sure would have been rape.