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Free Jinger Blog

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About this blog

The official blog for Free Jinger

Entries in this blog

 

RIP Arete

It grieves us to share that long time poster and helpmeet @Arete has passed due to complications from cancer. Arete joined FJ in 2012 and described herself as "I'm in my early 40s, live in the Northeast US, and work as an ebil scientist. Born and raised Greek Orthodox Christian, and still am, got to have my smells and bells in congregational prayer. Politically liberal." She was glad to provide information about her church, her experiences in gardening, and her Greek family traditions. In respect for her family's privacy, we won't be sharing any additional details, but we know you will join us in honoring the memory of a graceful woman.

Destiny

Destiny

 

New Community Blog

We have quite a few members interested in coloring.  After making my own (essentially) coloring blog, I decided to see if our resident colorists would like a community blog where everyone can post their projects, share tips and tricks, ask for opinions on works-in-progress or just ask for help.   The folks I talked to were receptive so the blog FJ Colorists Unite was created. If you would like to become a member of the FJ Colorists group so you can post on the new community blog, shoot me a PM or post a comment on my blog and I'll get you added.

Curious

Curious

 

The IBLP Lawsuit

If you have spent any time on Free Jinger, you will likely recognize the acronyms ATI and IBLP.  This is the fundamentalist ministry created by Bill Gothard, an unmarried man who  believes such things as:  There has long been talk about both Bill Gothard and his brother committing acts of sexual misconduct with female employees and interns.  As long ago as 1980, Gothard admitted to "moral failures" with some of the staff.   We at FJ have long awaited some kind of action to be taken against this unmarried man who had unlimited access to vulnerable women who are taught from birth that if a man "stumbles" it is the woman's fault. On around October 21, 2015, we became aware that a civil lawsuit had finally been filed against IBLP and all the members of the Board.  Bill Gothard is no longer part of the organization, having been forced to resign after another round of accusations in 2014. The board members named in the lawsuit are: John Stancil, Anthony Burrus, Gil Bates, Timothy Levendusky, Charles Stephen Paine, Jr., and David York. From Recovering Grace:   The Complain in it's entirety can be found at the Chicago Tribune  Each of the 5 Plaintiffs are asking for $50,000. Once a leader in the homeschooling movement, Gothard's ministry has managed to largely fly under the radar of the general public, despite having some rather high profile adherents.   Recently, Rep. Daniel Webster (R -FL) was considering a run for Speaker of the House, following John Boehner's resignation. Arguably the most famous followers are The Duggar family of TLC's 19 Kids and Counting, which was cancelled after several scandals related to the oldest Duggar child, Josh.   In May, 2015, In Touch magazine dropped the bombshell that when Josh Duggar was a teenager he sexually abused at least 5 girls, including several of his siblings.   In August, it was revealed that Josh had not one, but two accounts at Ashley Madison, a website which has the tagline "Life is short. Have an affair." For some 10 seasons, the Duggars have been promoted by TLC as a (very) large, happy Christian family.  They have shown the Duggars on the campaign trail for politicians such a Mike Huckabee and RIck Santorum. While claiming to be a shiny, happy Christian family, the Duggars have spoken out against the gay community and abortion.   Josh was hired by the Family Research Council and moved to Washington, DC, which was also documented on 19 Kids and Counting. Recently, Gothard and his ministry have gotten more mainstream attention thanks to Josh Duggars misconduct and hypocrisy coming to light.   While the Duggar family show, 19 Kids and Counting was cancelled by TLC, they have recently announced that they plan to do several "special episodes" of a show starring the newly married Duggar children, Jill Dillard and Jessa Sewald. What some people may not know is that another high profile Gothard adherent also has a TV show.   Gil Bates and his family have a show titled Bringing Up Bates on the UP network.   The Bateses are often seen as a less strict, more fun version of the Duggars.  They also have 19 kids and in the last several years have married off 4 children, some of which were shown on either 19 Kids and Counting or Bringing up Bates.   In fact, one of the Bates children married the son of  Rep. Daniel Webster (R-FL)  You might recognize the name Gil Bates from earlier in this post.  That's right, he is a member of the Board of IBLP and was named in the lawsuit.  The general public may have the Duggar's number thanks to Josh, but there is still a high profile IBLP member that has a platform to show off these dangerous beliefs on TV and he seems to be slipping under the radar, just like the Duggars did for many years. Please join us for discussion here: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/24484-negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/#top Further reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/10/22/five-women-sue-bill-gothards-ministry-that-has-ties-to-the-duggars/ http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/10/23/fundamentalist_duggar_connected_ministry_is_sued_for_sex_abuse_cover_up.html http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/the_cult_of_duggar_worship_must_be_stopped_theres_nothing_glamorous_about_the_familys_ongoing_hypocrisy/  

Curious

Curious

 

Have you tried our new mobile experience?

As many of you already know, our previous mobile site was....unpleasant at best.   I personally never used it, but rather suffered through adjusting the full site and doing a lot of scrolling when I wanted to read something on FJ on the rare times I needed to access it from a mobile device. Today, on the way to my weekly dr. appointment, I decided to give the new mobile site a look.   I have to say I'm really impressed with the new mobile experience.   Not only did I never have to adjust the size of the forum to be able to read it, I was actually able to do several small administrative tasks using an iPhone. Every aspect of the site resizes beautifully and you really get the same experience on the mobile site now that you have on the full site. If you haven't given it a try, I highly recommend it.

Curious

Curious

 

We survived week one!

So we all survived our first week on the new platform!   The transition has been smoother than I expected and the overall feedback has been quite positive. We tested the software for about a month before we put it on the live site, but no matter how much you test it's different once you have hundreds or thousands of unique users, so we do have a few outstanding bugs that are being worked on. * Some posts have gibberish characters in them * Some profiles are not working properly (or at all) * Moods is not working on Spectrum theme * Down votes are wonky for some (most) people * Search not bringing up all results I'm sure I have missed something, but those are the ones that came to mind.   Profile and the search problems will be fixed once the posts with gibberish are fixed.  This was not a trivial fix and tech support is working on that issue for us.  We hope to have it resolved by the end of this week.   They are also working on the down votes issue. We have 6 member blogs started, which I find exciting.   I can't wait to see what our members blog about.   There are already some great posts.  Cartman99 showed off her beautiful hardwood floor project and MarblesMom provides a recap of the nightly chats people have been having.  I've been able to pop into chat a couple times and it's been fun getting to know some members a bit better in real time. I'd like to remind everyone that we have a wonderful FAQ system now (maintained by HernameisBuffy) and it's always up-to-date.  We also have a well maintained Tech Support forum, if you are having any problems. This blog has been on hiatus since I was away from Nov, 2014-June 2015, but now that we are through the upgrade, I hope to bring it back to life. On to week 2!

Curious

Curious

 

The "Free Jinger Movement"

[url="http://www.freejinger.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ro-post-11.8.14.jpg"][/url]Welcome!  If you have just arrived here for your first visit via an article you read at Radar Online, Epoch Times, PopSoundOff, The Hollywood Gossip, She Knows,  The Examiner, Starcasm, International Business Times, or perhaps some other article that hasn't come to my attention yet, you are probably a little confused by what you have found.

We are certainly happy that the more mainstream type media has noticed us and we love having new people join us, we feel that Radar Online could have done a little better job in their reporting on what we really are and do here at Free Jinger.   So I decided I will try to give a little better picture of who we are.

RO initially described us as (emphasis mine):

[quote]a [b]group of critics[/b] has joined together online in the hopes of convincing spitfire daughter Jinger to leave too — without a wedding ring on her finger! Take a look inside the “Free Jinger” movement.[/quote]

Somewhere along the way, we turned into fans, as you can see from this quote from The Hollywood Gossip (emphasis mine):



Most of the articles are  based on the original RO one, so they have all the same "FJ just popped out of thin air when Jill and Jessa got engaged" tone.  The International Business Times, however, clearly was checking our twitter feed because they clarified that we have been around since 2005 and due to the 140 character limit took my "we talk about more than Jinger" to mean we talk about more things about the Duggars than just Jinger, as you can see here:

[quote]While the site has been around since 2005 (and also discusses more about the Duggars than just Jinger), the latest episodes of “19 Kids and Counting,” which have featured Jill Duggar’s wedding to Derick Dillard, and Jessa Duggar’s engagement to Ben Seewald, seem to have refueled an interest in their efforts[/quote]

Here is my original tweet:

[caption id="attachment_2689" align="aligncenter" width="300"][url="http://www.freejinger.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ro-tweet.jpg"][/url] RO Shout out tweet[/caption]

 

I'd like to point out that literally [b]every[/b] page on our site says ...since 2005 on it, so it's not like that information was hidden from Radar Online for their first story.  Several of the other articles did do a little digging and quote our FAQ.  That FAQ was written in 2005 and has been carried over from site to site and owner to owner.  I think it's an important part of our history, but this experience has shown me that we need to have an updated FAQ that is more current (and probably a little more serious) because some of those quotes don't make a lot of sense taken out of the context of the FAQ.

For those of you who came here to see the infamous "Free Jinger Movement,"  I'm afraid you are going to be somewhat disappointed.  The site is named Free Jinger because nearly 10 years ago people who talked about the Duggar specials saw a spark in Jinger and thought the name was funny.   Back then there were probably a few hundred people on the site.   I know when we moved from Yuku to our own domain in 2011 that there were 1500 members on the Yuku forum.  How many were spammers and how many were legit users, I can't say.    I can tell you today, we have 8000+ members and none of them are spam accounts because we don't allow them and if one manages to get through it is swiftly dispatched.    Do 8000+ people post here regularly, of course not, but the site has grown much in a short time.

We do talk about the Duggars, of course.  They have their very own subforum, in fact, and they are a popular topic for many members.   They are, however, a very small part of what we do here and while we would love to see Jinger break free, really it is our hope that all children being raised in oppressive religious environments will be free to make their own choices on how they wish to live.

There have been some things in the news lately  that you might have seen.  You might have read about Bill Gothard, a conservative leader having to resign after abuse allegations.   Without going back to our Yuku archive site because it's hard to search, we've been discussing Bill Gothard since June 14, 2011 and have several threads devoted to his predatory behavior before these actions came out in mainstream media.

Maybe you have heard of Vision Forum and its leader Doug Phillips.  He had a "moral failing" or whatever upstanding Godly men call sexually abusing young women in their employ or who are not their wives, these days.   We've been discussing good ol' Mr. Phillips since at least 2011, as well.   He's one of the more popular topics, with a 6 page subforum.

Pastor Steven Anderson has been in the news lately.  It's a bit hard to find impartial sites on the good Pastor since the SPLC considers his church a hate group.  You can google him for other information if you aren't familiar with him.   We have been warning people about his dangerous teachings since at least 2011, as well.

We also talk about things like Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill who have also been in the news recently, young women who are brave enough to come out about the abuse they lived with growing up,  many religions, and men's rights activists, Kate Gosselin, Brittany Maynard and names for the second royal baby.   If that is not enough for you, you can talk about your pets, gardening, crocheting, genealogy or cooking, as well as your favorite book or TV show.

So yep we are a snark site and we talk about people who put their entire lives out on the internet or on the television for the entire world to see, but if you look at our record we are pretty much calling things correctly and that more than anything is what upsets the people we talk about.   We are shining light on their dirty little secrets, not always in nice ways, admittedly.    If you are oppressing the women and children in your life because you think that is what the Bible says, you kind of deserve what you get, in my opinion.

Free Jinger is a very well-rounded site.  We have no rules about what you can or can't talk about other than you can't engage in hate speech and you can't post private information.  We strictly enforce both of those rules.   Unlike many of the folks we talk about, everyone is welcome here and we won't delete or change your comments.  We have had several people that we discuss come and "dialogue" (their word for discuss) with us in the past.   Most notably (and recently) Ken Alexander from Always Learning and Cabinetman (Robert) from A man, his wife and the bible.  They were the ones that left when the uppity womenfolk of Free Jinger did not fall in line to their headship.   We let them say whatever they wanted without deleting or editing their comments which is more than can be said for either of them.

We are thankful that more and more of these  people and their dangerous teachings are being exposed for what they are and despite the fact that there is no "Free Jinger Movement" in the context that it was originally written about, I am happy that Radar Online and other mainstreams sites have started to notice what we have said for many years.   The best disinfectant is sunlight and thanks to Radar Online and the other sites that wrote about Free Jinger and Jinger and Jana's situation, the more sunlight those girls and others like them get.

We do allow comments on the blog now, as long as you register (you don't have to be a member of the forum to be a member of the blog) and you can also comment on the forum, of course.

Curious

Curious

 

FJ Bible Study: Ephesians 5:21

I will start by saying I have never been overly interested in a deep study of the Bible.   Free Jinger has given me a new perspective on this, as I have watched members go toe to toe with various fundies proof text for proof text.  For those that don't know what a "proof text" is:   It is pretty amazing to watch some of our members who are either self-described non-Christians or considered non-Christian/the "wrong kind" of Christian know more about the Bible than people who supposedly live their lives by the inerrant word of God .   The ability these members have has intrigued me for some time and I have considered starting some threads before, but have never gotten around to it. Recently, our good friends Ken and Lori Alexander, at Always Learning posted that the Bible was "black and white."   This was just the push I needed to get me started on the FJ Bible Study series because it made me think "whose definition of black and white?"     Because I tend to be verbose, we are going to start with one verse at a time for now.  If we get some guest posters that can put a thought on paper without using ALL. THE. WORDS. then we might do more than one at a time in the future Since I am not a Bible scholar and don't think I know everything just because I exist, I went to the library and checked out several different study bibles and a guide on how to study the bible.  I also read various webpages that had different translations of the Bible.  I know the fundies stick with KJV, but I like to do well-rounded research so I looked at a few different ones. For this post, I mainly used the MacArthur Study Bible.  Lest we think Mr. MacArthur is some biblical poser, he says this in the personal notes: He is no slouch when it comes to reading the Bible either,   His suggested method for basic bible study is to read the Old Testament at least once per year.   For the New Testament, you should pick one book and read it every day for 30 days.  He suggests dividing the longer books into sections and reading each section every day for 30 days.  For example, John has 21 chapters, so you could break it up into 3 sections of 7 chapters.   In a mere 90 days, you will have mastered the Gospel of John.   Using this method of bible study, you will read the entire New Testament in less than 3 years! Mr. MacArthur also lists 3 errors to avoid when studying the bible: This is obviously great advice and in my experience and opinion an error we tend to see a lot.  How many times have we mentioned that God seems to feel the same way that the person quoting him feels and not the other way around. I'm not sure we see the first part of this too much, but failure to recognize the 4 gaps that need to be bridged?  That happens.  A lot!    There was a whole section on the gaps, which was interesting and I'm going to do a separate post on them at some point, since I don't want this post to be another novel. This is another error we see a lot, in my opinion.  A distinct failure to read the passages in a normal way, without reading a bunch more into it and failure to take historical meanings into context.   Verses with the "rod" anyone? So with these things in mind, we will see what Mr. MacArthur has to say about fundie favorite Ephesians 5:21: Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ (I do want to note that some versions of the Bible use the word fear and not reverence) Interestingly, according to Mr. MacArthur, this passage is not even specifically about married couple, but about how Christians are to treat each other .  Marriage specifics start at Ephesians 5:22. Paul here makes a transition and introduces his teaching about specific relationships of authority and submission among Christians (5:22-6:9) by declaring unequivocally that every spirit-filled Christian is to be a humble, submissive Christian.  This is fundamental to all the relationships in this section.  No believer is inherently superior to any other believer in their standing before God, they are equal in every way (Gal 3:28) out of reverence for Christ.  The believer's continual reverence for God is the basis for his submission to other believers I'm interested to hear (read) what others have to say about this given how this verse is generally treated.   This post will be open for comments for 5 days and the forum thread will stay open after that.  Next up in the FJ Bible Study will be Ephesians 5:22 and maybe a bit more since there won't be so much intro information.

Curious

Curious

 

Do Biblical Submission Blogs Have a Responsibility to Address the "Exceptions?"

Anyone who has read Free Jinger will know that one of our favorite blogs to discuss is Always Learning written by Lori Alexander. Lori claims that God has called her to be a "wise older mentor" to younger women. Her husband, Ken Alexander, has claimed that Lori has a "prophetic gift." Even though her blog is meant to be the teaching tool of a "wise older woman mentoring younger women" (which lately she reminds readers on a near-daily basis), Ken can often be found answering questions in the comments, usually ones that Lori finds "too tough". Ken also writes the occasional blog post, at Lori's request. The Alexanders preach wifely submission. From their perspective, that means the wife is always wrong and should do whatever the husband wants no matter what, in all areas of the marriage, including sex. All marital problems are the result of the wife not being submissive enough, and all marital problems can be solved by the wife submitting more. Even if the husband is flat-out wrong, the wife should submit to his will and let him have his way, because, according to the Alexanders, that’s how you make God happy. God and Jesus want the wife to blindly follow the husband. Any sins or crimes are on the husband’s head, as long as the wife submits. According to Ken and Lori Alexander it is worse for a wife to stand up to her husband and not allow him to, say, cheat on his taxes, than it is for the husband to do the actual fiscal misdeed. If your husband is not kind and loving, it’s because you aren’t submissive enough. If he is indifferent to you, you must still treat him in a loving manner. It’s all on the wife, and the answer is to always submit more. Ken Alexander came to Free Jinger to have a dialogue with us a few months ago and one of our main concerns was what happens to the women that Lori tells to "submit more" when they are in an abusive relationship. What does she tell those women? Does she give them resources to help them out of their situation, or do they also get told to "submit more?" Ken argued that domestic violence was very rare and an exception to what they preached. In the following quote, Salex is a Free Jinger member who dared to question Ken and Lori’s wisdom. Since that point, we have noticed that more and more comments have be deleted under the "exception" rule rather than being addressed by the Alexanders.   We don't seem to be the only ones that have noticed that Ken and Lori are pulling out the "exception" excuse quite a lot. A comment by, Stephanie, on Sheila's blog To Love, Honor and Vacuum had this to say: Stephanie says: September 3, 2014 at 8:13 am Ken, I have heard you say frequently that you are weary of dealing with the exceptions. I would argue that the situation you have described (where the wife is using conflict resolution simply to “get her way”) is an exception and frankly, one *I* am weary of. The honest, respectful communication I am referring to and I am pretty certain Sheila is referring to is NOT what you describe here. It does not have nefarious intent like you describe, but an intent to bring unity and intimacy to the marriage. Recently, the following comment was left on their blog by commenter Lynn: I just read this post and tears are streaming down my face. I stayed home from church with my sick child and thinking of how I am going to escape my horrible, verbally abusive marraige[sic]. I can't go on anymore. I am exhausted of putting on a show and acting happy in public and crying on the inside. My husband hasn't slept in the same bed with me for the last three years. He says he doesn't love me. I submit, smile, pray to God to show me how to love this man, raise our family according to the Bible, treat my husband like a king, but nothing helps. I physically, emotionally, spiritually and mentally am burned out. And I can't leave because he hasn't been unfaithful (that I know of). He blames me if my daughter gets a cold, calls me fat, turns his nose up at my meals that take me hours to prepare from scratch, says out house isn't clean enough even when there isn't a speck of dust to be found and there is no clutter or mess anywhere. I ask him to show me what to change and he walks away. He literally pushes me away when I try to rub his back or show love. I just can't do it anymore. It is affecting our children and I need to think of them too. I know I am in a deep depression from all of this and I even think it would be better if I were never born. I know I am not perfect either.... And I apologize for things all day long even when I haven't sinned, just to appease him. I am literally scared of this man and I am so tense that I cringe when I look at him. He also puts on a show and will act loving toward me in public, and then as soon as the door shuts he changes 100%. He refuses to go with me to our pastor, a counselor, parents, anybody for help or advice. I worry mostly for my kids and wonder how long it will be before they say something about what is going on to another adult. I just keep wondering if God would understand if I just gave up. Reading your post, I know God set me free long ago. But this isn't any way to live. Lori's initial response was: Good Morning, Lynn I would encourage you to find a godly, older woman to help you walk this difficult path. We aren't meant to do it alone or seek wise counselors like thejoyfilledwife did in her struggle to win her husband without a word when he was deep into pornography and was treating her poorly. I read Streams in the Desert every morning. It is my favorite devotional. I encourage you to get a copy. I read it today and thought it would be perfect encouragement for you ~ "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me" (Mark 8:34). The cross which my Lord bids me take up and carry may assume different shapes. I may have to content myself with a lowly and narrow sphere, when I feel that I have capacities for much higher work. I may have to go on cultivating year after year, a field which seems to yield me no harvests whatsoever. I may be bidden to cherish kind and loving thoughts about someone who has wronged me--be bidden speak to him tenderly, and take his part against all who oppose him, and crown him with sympathy and succor. I may have to confess my Master amongst those who do not wish to be reminded of Him and His claims. I may be called to "move among my race, and show a glorious morning face," when my heart is breaking. There are many crosses, and every one of them is sore and heavy. None of them is likely to be sought out by me of my own accord. But never is Jesus so near me as when I lift my cross, and lay it submissively on my shoulder, and give it the welcome of a patient and unmurmuring spirit. He draws close, to ripen my wisdom, to deepen my peace, to increase my courage, to augment my power to be of use to others, through the very experience which is so grievous and distressing, and then--as I read on the seal of one of those Scottish Covenanters whom Claverhouse imprisoned on the lonely Bass, with the sea surging and sobbing round--I grow under the load. --Alexander Smellie" Unfortunately, I can't give you citations for the above because they and the rest of the comments relating to this comment were scrubbed from the blog for the following reason, per Ken: Dear Lynn, I hope that you have read the responses to your comments and that you will be seeking help from a set of godly wise counselors. If you have missed some of the discussion I have kept the entire thread and Lori will be happy to email it to you if you provide your email address. I hope that the comments were helpful to you, but your situation needs direct local counseling attention. We are deleting your comments and all that address them because this blog is a teaching blog. Staying on topic is very important to teaching, and Lori wants to insure that those who wish to learn from her will be focusing on the topic of the day, and our New Lives in Christ, not on abuse, although this is an important topic for another day. So again, we have preserved the comments for you and we are available to you by email if you feel we can help, but we really urge you to seek help from your local counselors. I would say this is mandatory, not optional for any women who is being treated so poorly by her husband. Ken doesn't seem to take into consideration that Lynn may not have access to the internet very often, or that she can't risk giving out her email address for fear her husband may read her messages. He doesn't seem to take into consideration how much strength it probably took Lynn to actually make that comment in the first place. It isn't important enough to keep and it's detracting from the topic of the day. I wonder if Jesus would have turned Lynn away because he was not preaching on the topic of her problems that day? Somehow I doubt that he would. Our own poster, Koala, made this heartfelt reply to Lynn which I am sure she will never see, unfortunately, but I hope other women that are in Lynn's position may see it and gain some comfort and strength from it. Something you'd expect to get perhaps a little more from a "wise mentoring blog" than a "snark site." What I would have told Lynn *if it weren't for the fact that I wouldn't dream of giving Lori Alexander (who encourages people to hit their kids with leather belts, and encourages abused wives to "Keep Submitting!") my email address*: Dear Lynn, I am so sorry about the situation you find yourself in. No matter what, do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of thinking that: A) you can save your husband he will change for you C) you deserve this treatment for one reason or another (including the fact that you married him in the first place). Nothing gives him the right to treat you this way, and nothing excuses continuing to allow him to behave this way in front of your children. Let me assure you, they will carry it with them for the rest of their lives. It is your job as their mother to make decisions that are in their best interest. Staying in an abusive marriage is NEVER in the best interest of the children, and greatly increases the likelihood that he will eventually (if he hasn't already) turn his abuse on them. Do not take that chance. If it has already happened, don't allow it to continue for another day. Lori's assertion that children are happier with an abusive father than no father at all is a lie. Ask her what it's based on and you'll quickly see that she won't have an answer for you. I offer this advice to you only because I have been in your children's shoes. My father verbally, physically, and mentally abused my mother. She turned herself upside down trying to change him, help him, please him and nothing ever worked. She left him when I was 5 years old, and I will carry the memory of what I saw during those first years for the rest of my life. It literally shaped who I became. You have no idea how grateful I am that she finally left him. She saved herself, and she saved me. If I could change anything, she would have left him sooner. It might also help you to know that he never got better. He actually got worse, and eventually committed a criminal act that led to a conviction for something so awful I won't even post it here. Had my mom not walked away, she and I could have been the victims in that case. Instead she struggled and made a life for us. I married a wonderful man (almost 14 years ago) and we have 2 beautiful children. Had she stayed with my father, I don't even want to think of how my life might have turned out. She has a great job now (she worked her ass off, and in the end she made it to the top). She is genuinely happy with her life. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you aren't strong enough to do this for yourself, do it for your children. Please don't wait too late to save yourself and your children. You guys should never be afraid in your own home. If you feel God has set you free, then you don't need Lori Alexander to co-sign on it. Be well, and know that the path to freedom is just outside your own front door. You have the keys. The Alexanders also talk about sex. A lot. Particularly about how it's a wife’s duty to give her husband sex. That's why he married her after all (yeah, I wish I was kidding, too).   Poor Ken can't even get away from people trying to make exceptions on this topic either (from the comments in the link above): If the husband wants sex 4 times a week, the wife should willingly have sex 4 times a week, even if she is tired, pregnant, or sick. There are no excuses per Lori: So now that you know not giving your husband frequent sex is sin and you don't want to walk in sin, start making your husband happy. IT ONLY NEEDS TO TAKE TEN MINUTES!!! That is not much of a sacrifice to have a happy husband. Ken feels the same way(emphasis mine): Of course increasing frequency would potentially hurt the situation IF we are talking about intercourse, but not if we are talking about other ways she can help satisfy her husband's needs. That is part of compromise, and it could have been reached much sooner if the wives would followed their own belief in a submissive role in their marriage, but they were functioning under a number of lies taught to them by worldly thinking, especially the lie that even when married they got to choose the frequency of sex... all on their own... because it was their body and their feelings. This comment was recently made on their blog: Marie Lori, I think it's great to encourage people to have sex with their spouses. It's important, but I have a question. What do you do when sex is so painful for you? I have a condition called endometriosis and this makes the act with my spouse very painful. I have had surgery to help remove the scar tissue and they have tried opening me up more, but it still is so painful when we try to have intercourse. I try to put up with the pain and pretend it doesn't hurt, but he can tell and I fear this could be a huge rift for us. I have been told to just deal with it and do it when he wants anyway. However, my husband stops the moment he notices I am in pain. I feel like I am not fulfilling any of my duties to my husband and to god as sex is miserable and we can hardly have any and I am unable to have children either. Have you mentored women in similar situations and what advice did you give them? and the predictable response from Lori? Day after day, year after year, women are told that they must submit and if things are going badly in their marriage they are to submit more. They are told to "win him without words" and give more and more of themselves to the marriage no matter what the problem is. In Ken and Lori Alexander’s world, there is really no such thing as domestic violence or spousal abuse. It’s so uncommon that it’s not even worth mentioning. When it is mentioned in the comments, they stick their fingers in their ears and sing a hearty round of “la la la la I can’t hear you.” By ignoring women in dangerous situations, they do everyone a disservice. By refusing to consider “exceptions” they prove that they are not wise mentors at all. They have no true understanding of the things they espouse and are merely parroting back what they have heard others say. Take away their strict rules and they are utterly lost. So it’s better, for them, if those things stay hidden and nobody questions them. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Do you think that blogs that teach things like the Alexanders have a responsibility to also address the "exceptions" or is it ok for them to leave those followers who are unlucky enough not to be in the majority hanging? Let us know your opinion in the comments here or on the forum

Curious

Curious

 

News: New look and other changes

Welcome   If you aren't one that goes directly to the forum normally, you may have noticed the "main page" here going through various states of transformation recently.  It is still very much a work in progress and will probably continue to change for a little while yet, when my husband suggested the main page looked like "something from the 90's," I decided that change was absolutely in order. So starting today, we are allowing registration on the blog and  comments will be allowed here for  the first 5 days.  After that discussion will be able to continue on the forum.   You do not have to be a member of the forum to comment here, but you do have to register on the blog to comment.   If things go as planned, you will be able to sign in with your various social media accounts so you don't have to have yet another log in, but that is not going live today, most likely. If you are a member of the forum, you need to register on the blog to comment here and you do need to register with your forum name and email address.  If you would like me to register you manually, I am happy to do that.  Send me a PM on the forum or post on the thread covering this topic and I will get you set up. There are probably some glitches as this gets off the ground and I routinely break things, as I always do, but I am excited about some of the things that we will be able to do here that we can't do on the forum very easily (like have a real FAQ! which is still a work in progress).   You will notice that we still have a like button here.   We can actually have a dislike button here as well, but I'm not sure how that will go over so I'm going to wait until there is not so much flux before bringing that option to the table. If you run into anything wonky, please let me know either here or on the forum.    I know the Our Team page needs work.  I switched templates and the lovely addon that made a beautiful "our team" page was part of that template, so I need to get in there and fix that page, but other than that I think the pages are working correctly. I have a real content post planned for later today or tomorrow depending on how many fires I create yet today

Curious

Curious

 

August 17-29, 2013 ~ #14 ~ Sarcasm WInner

  Congratulations AtroposHeart   AtroposHeart's post nominated by kpmom http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=611248#p611248 Despite being an atheist I have made it a goal to read the entire Bible, for a variety of reasons. However, today in first Samuel I came across the story of Abigail and David. Now, fundies are always going on about wifely submissiveness and other bullshit, but in the story of Abigail is about a woman who DEFIES her husband and is REWARDED for it. Now, here is the story, Abigail is married to a rich asshole and he offends David and afraid David might make war on them, she goes out and makes peace with David. The text makes it clear that she went behind her husband's back to do this. Anyway she goes back to her husband, who is drunk and waits till morning when he is somber and when he hears the story he faints. Ten days later God strikes him dead. Then David takes Abigail as his wife and she becomes a QUEEN. I have a question fundies if submissive is so important; when why is their a Bible story where a woman is rewarded for disobeying her husband and becomes a queen!

Curious

Curious

 

August 17-29, 2013 ~ #14 ~ Sincerity Winner

  Congratulations 180 degrees   180 degrees' post nominated by mice http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=612018#p612018   I work in a shelter for women leaving violent relationships. In fact, I'm sitting in the office of the shelter typing this. I support women in the same situation as Noni Alabaster every day. It doesn't sound like it's stopped him though. Get out. You don't need friends and money shouldn't stop you. There are people and organizations who will support you and give you a helping hand. Get out. I know it was written with the best of intention and concern (and a lot of people do it) but telling a woman what she does and doesn't need or what should and shouldn't stop her from leaving isn't helpful. Instructing her to 'get out' is too simple. It actually may be harmful in that it will discourage her from reaching out again or further shame her because she may hear it as she should do what you say and just isn't strong enough etc... Abused women don't need people, however well meaning, telling then what do to. The abusers have that more than covered. They need to be supported until they are strong enough to determine a course of action. Some women never leave, some leave and go back, a lot leave and go back a few times before they leave for good. All of them need support to become self-determined people. Noni's concerns about not having money or friends are valid ones. Although we do advise women who are in immediate danger to leave if they can, it's good to think it through and have a supports in place. When women first contact us (before they have left) we encourage them to devise a safety plan. Having a plan greatly increases the odds of success. Here's an example of one: http://womenshealth.gov/violence-against-women/get-help-for-violence/safety-planning-for-abusive-situations.cfm I'm in Canada. I don't know how your laws and procedures around domestic violence work but other women have provided good links. Noni Alabaster, please PM me if you ever need someone just to vent to or listen or to bounce ideas off of. You can contact women's organizations even if you don't plan to leave, just for support to get through your day. They will have all the local, specific knowledge that can help you. Apologies for just de-lurking and writing on such a serious topic out of the blue but this one is really close to home for me. Also, apologies for horrible grammer etc... It's nearing midnight and my brain is tired.

Curious

Curious

 

April 27-August 16, 2013 ~ #13 ~ Sincerity Winner

  Congratulations Oddeverything   Oddeverything's post nominated by gilora http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=583153#p583153   Here's the list of the things that raised my suspicions about Razing Ruth. Before I begin, here are some links that hopefully will help those who have had difficulty navigating TWoP (which is hard - their search function is a mess and you have to be a member there to have access to that mess). These links are to my own Flickr account, and, interestingly, by using my own Flickr account, I am outing myself, which I have no problem with. I run two sites that cause controversy from time to time and I do it under my real name, so who cares if everyone now knows who I am. And I also I see no reason to break these links. (redacted broken link) - The bottom comment shows where ofduggar links to razingruth.com and essentially outs herself as the person behind that identity. She claims razingruth is her blog. This comment shows definitively that ofduggar is the person behind Razing Ruth. (redacted broken link) - This is the comment wherein Ruth reveals she had a baby of her own. (redacted broken link) (redacted broken link) These are two very long screenshots that I just took of some of Ruth's comments in the event that anyone wants to read them and to save them in the event that they get deleted. Here are some of the red flags for me: 1) The job in Chicago. I am friends with people who have MLIS degrees, meaning they have a Master's Degree in Library and Information Sciences, and they cannot find work. My own husband quit this program at UT because the job market, back in 1998, was cut throat and it has not gotten any better. I find it very hard to believe anyone can be offered a job today in any professional field without a face to face interview. I find it all the more unbelievable that anyone hired to be a research librarian would be hired without a face to face interview because such a person will work directly with professors, scientists and other highly specialized professionals. Those people will want to know who they are working with before that person is hired. By way example, my husband was a library intern at a microchip research consortium. People were flown in from all over the country for interviews for jobs. And no one with a Bachelor's degree is getting that job, no matter how junior the position. Ruth has a Bachelor's degree, little experience, no connections and she was offered a job across the country, sight unseen, over the dozens of MLIS candidates with experience and references that such a job would attract? That makes zero sense and reads like a lie. 2) The baby. The second Flickr link above describes an entry wherein Ruth says in unambiguous verbiage that she was pregnant with a baby that she gave birth to. This is information she felt okay enough about sharing in a community wherein she had directed people to her blog. It's not like it was information she felt she needed to hide for her personal safety as Razing Ruth. Yet no where in any of her discussions as Razing Ruth in her blog or on NLQ does she ever mention having a baby, losing a baby, adopting out her baby, etc. Some may think that discussing a baby could have revealed her identity, but she openly discussed her sister who got pregnant, adopted the baby to a family of lesbians, went back home to and married a widower. That is a lot of detail and fear of too much detail cannot be a reason why Ruth would hide having her own child. I do not think that if Ruth exists in any real form wherein she has a child. I think that comment was part of a person trying on an identity and seeing how it floated to others and then forgetting about it when the persona was later refined. 3) Her identity. I can understand that she wants privacy and if she is who she says she is, she wants that privacy because she wants to one day have access to her brothers and sisters. But at this point, her family is aware of the blog. She is not hiding from them. She is hiding from us. Which is her right. And if anyone knows her identity, I do hope it is not revealed here. That is not what this is about. But this is problematic. The ATI/Gothardite community is not so large that no one would know who this family is. Despite all the voluminous detail out there about her family - college educated mother, sister left pregnant and disgraced and returned and married a widower, connections to the Duggars, one daughter fled and never came back, patriarch recently died - and no one knows who her family is? And they had no obituary because of Ruth's blog? The blog where she has never mentioned any of them by real name and protects their identity? None of this makes sense and I posit that is because the family does not exist, or at least it does not exist in the form Ruth has presented. We know too many people who are refugees from that community and none of them have any idea who Ruth is? That seems odd. 4) The pregnant sister. It was about here that I began to doubt Ruth, having defended her myself in the past. Ruth's sister gets pregnant and leaves and places the baby in a lesbian family. Okay. That could happen, however unlikely it sounds. But let's think about the details. Her sister got pregnant at an ATI conference? Does this have the ring of truth to anyone that a patriarch so involved in his daughters' sexual natures that he charted periods and lost his mind when Ruth started menstruating because he was sure the blood on her bed meant she had been fornicating, would really permit his daughter that much freedom away from him at a conference? Especially since one daughter had already left? Wouldn't everyone else there at the ATI conference have noticed that a betrothed couple had stolen away for time together? The entire story of how her sister got pregnant has nary a single ring of truth to it. AND if Ruth indeed had a baby of her own, then that means her father, the intrusive lunatic she described in such depth, let two daughters get pregnant on his patriarchical watch. Unless Ruth got pregnant after she ran away, which of course is a whole other set of questions. 5) The trials of Job. I know people have hard lives and at times have very dramatic lives. I myself have gone through such a time. But I have never met someone who has had as many problems as Ruth. She never stumbles but breaks a leg. She gets a job as a caretaker on some land so she can live there free in her trailer but gets called a thief, is run off the property and sold the trailer for pennies on the dollar. Her fiance is a sad little mama's boy. She gets stiffed all the time at her restaurant job. She can't get to her new job. She has no clothes for her new job. She needs help and can't ever get it. People stalk her in real life. She's been in the hospital more than my terminally ill mother. That's just off the top of my head. 5a) The number of problems she has allows Ruth to collect a lot of money via tip jars or actual fundraising. Because Ruth is so beloved to so many people, when she falls on hard times, often people suggest she put up a PayPal link, and that gives Ruth plausible deniability because she can say that she didn't suggest it - others did and she just listened to them. But there have been plenty of times Ruth has actively solicited money. I counted five specific times when I stopped counting but it would be interesting to see the number of times Ruth has sought money in total. 6) She follows a script that is familiar to anyone who has read Marc Feldman or read blogs like Warrior Eli. She has a past wherein she cannot reveal who she really is. When people question her, she becomes ill or she has an outrageous event happen that distracts from the questioning. When many people asked about her hospitalization, very soon after Ruth posted a story about a woman who came to her work, a woman who made her cry, and that claim caused arguments here and for people to circle the wagons around poor beleaguered Ruth. But that story fits the pattern of every other person who has used this tactic. So the library has a sign-in system and this woman refused to use it and leave proof of her identity? Check. Ruth, who has guarded her name closely, so closely no one really knows who she is, willingly let an aggressive stranger see her drivers license? Check. She was so emotionally devastated she cried? Check. She wrote a long wall of text entry that caused people to shout "YOU GO GIRL!" and effectively ending the conversation about her strange hospitalization story? Check. 7) Her facts are odd. Between all of the places she has posted online, she has made claims variously that she lived in Arkansas in Duggar country in the 70s and 80s, but then later claimed she was born in 1984. She claimed she attended CSU on her now deleted Facebook page but that college offers no LIS degree. There are more but unfortunately information I needed has been deleted and Ruth installed a robots.txt file that prevents certain entries from being indexed on Wayback and Google. Interesting... (ETA: Ruth may not have a degree in LIS, which would eliminate this as a factual inconsistency but does raise even more questions as to how it is a person without even an LIS degree could get a job that people with MLIS degrees would kill to have.) Anyway, these are the holes and problems I have found in the Razing Ruth story. These are things I investigated myself so if anyone wants me to add a similar problem to this list, let me know and I will look into it and add it, too. I need to repeat these things again: I do not want to see Ruth or whomever is behind this come to any harm. I simply want the people on this site to know what there are many problems with the Razing Ruth narrative even though she has a lot of credibility because of her participation on this site and the love many here have for her. I do not want to cause FJ any liability so if anything here crosses a line, I apologize but I have endeavored to make sure that anything I say here is something that I label my opinion or have textual information to back it up.

Curious

Curious

 

April 27-August 16, 2013 ~ #13 ~ Sarcasm Winner

    Congratulations So Says I   So Says I's post nominated by nonymouse http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=547256#p547256   So Says I wrote:   thoughtful wrote: If you like Mist of the Devil's Junk, you'll love Satan's Ball Sweat by Designer Imposters. She'll never know the difference!  

Curious

Curious

 

April 20-26, 2013 ~ #12 ~ Sarcasm Winner

  Congratulations Jennifer Juniper   Jennifer Juniper's post nominated by mice: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=541960#p541960 Pixie1000 wrote: I did not intend to be condesending. I would like my profile removed, moderators, please. Thanks. I find that everyone tends to have the sharp nails out... there is too much ugliness in the real world to deal with it on a forum. Thanks again, everyone!

Curious

Curious

 

April 20-26, 2013 ~ #12 ~ Sincerity Winner

  Congratulations Jezebel   Jezebel's post nominated by Malice Alice and bethella: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=539642#p539642   I keep coming over here for more of stillgayGreg's and Dede's antics, and skim over other posts. But boy, this girl's a real piece of work. From her last post on the Close Encounters thread: Over the past couple months, I've been healing over a dispute I had with a fundie girl. We met through blogging and I was raised as a VF lovin', SAHD type of thing. I started rejecting that though in the later part of my high school years and my family studied on the fundie junk and stupidity that we had allowed in our home. We became pretty close, calling each other besties, texting, Skyping often, etc. We met in person a couple times. It went on for a couple years. I wasn't exactly honest about some of the things I said about myself. When it came out, I apologized, but I got silence.In other words, here she was, thinking that you were such a great friend--and you were lying to her the entire time. "I wasn't exactly honest about some of the things I said about myself" is just a weaselly way of saying, "I lied to her." Period. You led her to believe you were someone you were not. You carried on the friendship under false pretenses. And she only learned the truth "when it came out"--in other words, you didn't voluntarily confess the lies, apologize, and beg her forgiveness. You didn't repent on your own; you just kept lying until you got caught. By using a weasel-phrase instead of plainly stating the truth--that you lied to her--you're trying to minimize your wrongdoing. And by starting in right off the bat by saying that this dispute is something you've "been healing over," and then going on to tell a story of how mean, spiteful, unfair and irrational this girl is toward you? Oh, please. I told them I was sorry and asked for forgiveness. I'm still completely ignored today. I've tried emailing just to keep up and whatever, and apparently, I'm a polluting influence. Here's a clue: she doesn't owe you forgiveness just because you want it. You lied to her. If she's so hurt by your dishonesty and betrayal that she chooses to ignore you, that is her right. And if she decides that a known liar is a "polluting influence," and should be cut out of her life, I'd say that's a reasonable choice. I've tried to keep emailing her and keeping in touch, but apparently since I stepped on her toes and hurt her, I'm second pickings. You lied to her.  You're not second pickings; you're a self-justifying asshole who thinks she's still entitled to friendship with the very person she has hurt. Plus, I liked her brother at the time and finding that out through it all probably made them feel like I was defrauding. Keep making excuses if it helps you feel better, but the fact remains-- you lied to her. [snipped a bunch of teen-girl gossipy shit nobody cares about. Also, the girl's blog link. Because if she won't accept your lying self back, you can at least set the Free Jinger snark brigade loose on her, right?] She has taken the past 6 months to go hemming and hawing on there and pinterest about "when people hurt me, I can love them" and all that. When you see "some people" on there it's more likely me she's talking about- I know she doesn't get out much at all and nobody in her area would hurt her, honestly. It's a good thing nobody in her area would hurt her. But you are just unable to grasp how much you hurt her. I mean, I'm flabbergasted at how callous and self-absorbed, and how utterly lacking in remorse or compassion, you are. When i tried to enter a giveaway of some really cool stuff she was handing out, she deleted my entries. YOU LIED TO HER. YOU BETRAYED THE FRIENDSHIP SHE THOUGHT YOU HAD. YOU BROKE HER HEART. And you're going to try to get free "cool stuff" she's giving away? Can you even begin to get this through your head, or are you that much of an empathy-deficient, self-serving narcissist? So I told my pinterest following in the pin about the giveaway she didn't let me enter. Truth. Cold, hard, truth. Funny how you didn't also tell the cold, hard truth about the fact that you lied to her about yourself. Then she started pinning about slander and libel! She acts like I don't exist. Shuns. So I let the truth out about how she treats me. But the truth about you is so much worse. You're a liar. Not only that, you're a liar who feels she should be allowed to get away with it in exchange for what was, no doubt, a handful of lame excuses and a non-apology. You honestly believe the person you hurt owes you something. You're a pretty fucking awful human being, in other words. I'd shun you, too. You can talk about the Bible, and salvation, and faith, and everything else that lets you sound like a "good Christian," but you've shown a pretty appalling lack of empathy, understanding, and compassion when it comes to your fellow human beings. You've shown yourself to be mean, petty, self-centered, and rude. You may call yourself a Christian, but you're not even remotely Christlike. And I don't think this is simply because you're 19 and immature--I've known plenty of teenagers and young adults who were genuinely big-hearted, kind, loving people. She is all about "moving on" and "letting go" but she still stalks my online stuff ALL THE TIME. And yet you're still stalking her online stuff despite the fact she wants nothing to do with you. Pot, kettle, black. And you obviously have wanted her back as a friend (because I suspect you don't have any other real friends, given your personality). So you've kept stalking her through emails that went unanswered, and entering giveaways on her Pinterest account despite the fact she didn't want anything more to do with you. And after all your failed attempts to get her to give you what you want, you're here, telling us about how she can't let go and how she engages in passive-aggressive shit-talking about you? And telling us you're not really a fundie, but she is, so here's her blog link? She is well rid of your creepy, heartless, narcissistic self, IMHO.

Curious

Curious

 

April 13-19, 2013 ~ #11 ~ Sincerity Winner

  Congratulations Samurai_Sarah   Samurai_Sarah's post nominated by notacleverpony: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=536271#p536271 Oh, fantastic! A patronizing statement about why I left! I'll be back in church as soon as I've confessed, which will take a while. If I do it in instalments, I'll be able to make it back in June. Some poor priest might also need counselling afterwards- I haven't been in twenty years-, but hey, Abigail would be so proud of me, right? And now everything will be better. Only, the absolute last straw for me, which drove me from lukewarm cafeteria Catholic to leaving, was that sometimes the RCC does precisely what it preaches. It is doctrinally sound to excommunicate the mother of a 9 year old pregnant rape victim for procuring a life-saving abortion. It is also doctrinally sound to excommunicate the doctor who performed the surgery. That doesn't make it any less of an asshole move. Especially, when taken together with the child-abuse within the RCC that they forgave themselves for, for decades. If it was confessed, it was doctrinally sound, but again, that doesn't make it right. So, forget about me coming back to church, and giving that lot my money again. I understand why people stay. I understand the heartfelt belief. I also understand how someone can disagree, but stay. But the Vatican saying that oh, we've been a bit naughty, which is why people leave, is too simplistic and frankly, outright insulting. I have lots of reasons, but if I had to absolutely pick only one I'd say it's that the Vatican (not your average Catholic) is so far removed from its people, and so far up its own arse that it doesn't understand the meaning of the word "compassion" any longer, while getting lost in a jungle of dogma and doctrine. Thanks, but no, thanks. /end rant P.S.: Apparently I do have stronger feelings about a church I grew up in, and once loved, than I thought.

Curious

Curious

 

April 6-12, 2013 ~ #10 ~ Sarcasm Winner

  Congratulations Jinger Jar   Jinger Jar's post nominated by mice http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=532965#p532965 Jinger Jar wrote: Some upcoming threads on Abigail's Alcove: Seven People in a Pup Tent, and We Love It! Who Needs Electricity? Kerosene Lamps Make Me Holier than You! I Never Felt More Catholic than the Day the City Turned Off My Water Who Wants My Roth IRA? Dispatches from the Stream Where I Pound Laundry on Rocks Tiny Toes in the Snow. My Kids are Discalced, Too Holy Smoke! We're Burning Furniture to Stay Warm Naked Unto the Lord: I Freecycled All My Clothing Dumpster Diving for Seven, I'll Show You How

Curious

Curious

 

April 6-12, 2013 ~ #10 ~ Sincerity Winner

  Congratulations rward   rward's post nominated by NovemberRain http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=532339#p532339 rward said; We went through a very hard few years after my husband developed MS and couldn't work. Prior to that, I knew people were poor in America, I just didn't know what it felt like. (i.e., I didn't say asshattish things like Lori, et al., but I definitely didn't know poverty.) I really wish we could force all these people to live for 6 months like I did for 3 years. Make them live on the money we had, make them skip meals and pretend not to be hungry so your husband doesn't feel bad. Make them survive for days on the saltines in the break room. Make them steal toilet paper from work because you can't afford to buy it. Make them turn off the heat and drip the pipes so they don't freeze and take cold showers in a freezing house every morning for an entire winter. Make them learn how to juggle bills based on who will you cut off your service when. Make them county every penny because that's the difference between paying the mortgage and buying deoderant instead of just paying the mortgage. Make them walk in the rain on a 42F day because $1.25 for the bus is too much. Make them wear broken down shoes that hurt because even Walmart shoes cost too much. Make them wear worn out, saggy bras, pilled and thin sweaters, socks with holes and pants that don't fit. When Lori's done all of that, she is welcome to tell me all about poverty in America.

Curious

Curious

 

March 30-April 5, 2013 ~ #9 ~ Sarcasm Winner

  Congratulations samurai_sarah and vex   This week we had a tie in the sarcasm category. samrurai_sarah's post was nominated by notacleverpony: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=525857#p525857     OkToBeTakei wrote:Yup she is absolutely correct. EVERY single male all over the world who went to public school is addicted to porn. All of them. There are no exceptions. (snip) samurai_sarah wrote: ITA. I noticed that too. On my first day of primary school, in Germany, you get an oversized cone of paper filled with goodies and would you believe it - it resembled a phallus. The relentless assault of pornographic images and movies continued, especially during biology, physics and PE lessons. I basically had to watch my class-mates salivating over learning about osmosis. The grunts from the back benches, while we learned about gravity were unbearable. And those defrauding legs, while I was trying to evade getting lobotomized by a field hockey-stick were...ugh. Not to mention the hockey-sticks. So addicted were all the guys to porn, that we all only started dating at around 16. And we all went straight into holding hands. How disgusting is that? Can you even begin to imagine how traumatizing that was? Sisters, I could tell you more about the horrors of secular schooling, but I fear that if I spend one more moment, dwelling on such erotic subjects as Boyle's gas equation, or the hot, heated passion of learning French declinations, I too may be lost forever. Safe-guard your children! Protect them from grammar and proper spelling! It will only lead to nudity and an open mind! And beware field hockey, although the accidental lobotomy might sound handy now, beware!     vex's post was nominated by SunnySideUp and Violet http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=529517#p529517 Vex wrote: Personally, I pronounce Zsuzsanna 'hateful bitch'.

Curious

Curious

 

#9 March 30-April 5, 2013 ~ Sincerity Winner ~ feministing

Congratulations feministing   feministing's post was nominated by Chibi Author http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=529402#p529402   Imma be honest here. I do NOT approve of how "fundie" visitors to this site were previously treated. I do not like how Suze and Candice Keller were treated, for example - we caused them to flounce due to our horrible attitudes - FJers insulted their decisions, rudely spewed venom at their family, and made them feel like crap for having diplomatic approaches to the situation. If I were a fundie on FJ, you better believe what I would see here would absolutely bolster what I'd been fed about the outside world being evil. While there are many examples of compassion on this website, some people are absolutely ruthless to fundie visitors (although it is a minority, it is a substantial one). Gently and rationally discussing our perspective once we make the fundie feel welcome and comfortable would be a better approach that would make them feel more amenable to coming here and maybe - when they see that the godless can be kind - they might question their ways. To get what we want we must kill them with kindness - that is what my mother always told me. Even though they may disagree with our beliefs, they still deserve to be treated with respect - ESPECIALLY since they are of the more reasonable fundies. I am an agnostic from a very religious family, and as dangerous as I believe my family's beliefs to be, if anyone trash talked them at me, in my presence, in a rude, condescending, and self-righteous tone, I will be pissed at them and probably flounce. Why? Because like the Kellers, although I disagree with my family, i still love them. There is a way to tread lightly - to address certain issues without appearing abrasive and rude. Moreover, growing up in a large family, I learned that if I want to get dirt on someone, I have to play it safe, appear as open and as non-judgmental as possible, so that they can feel comfortable sharing dirt with me. As annoying as Reed may be, he is useful and can be a boon to FJ. He can provide us interesting information that can satisfy our curiosity and perhaps address the myths/realities/suspicions about the Duggars from the perspective of someone who is not out to kiss the ground they walk on. There are many threads on this forum intended for ruthless snarking. However, if we organize a Q&A with a fundie/fundie-relative on a thread, the thread should be at the very least POLITE. We don't want to bite the hand that feeds us. Reason for editing: Brainriffles.

Curious

Curious

 

Week 8 March 23-29, 2013 ~ Sarcasm Winner ~ Buzzard

[caption id=attachment_122" align="aligncenter" width="300] Post of the Week ~ Sarcasm Winner ~ #8[/caption]   Congratulations Buzzard Buzzard's post nominated by StacyW http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=495195#p495195

Curious

Curious

 

Week 8 March 23-29, 2013 ~ Sincerity Winner ~ Gil

[caption id=attachment_1869" align="aligncenter" width="300] Post of the Week - Sincerity Winner - Week 8[/caption] Congratulations Gil Gil's post nominated by patsy http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=525780#p525780   because evangelical Christian youth constitute nearly half of all homeless youth in this country because evangelical Christian youth frequently drop out of school to avoid mistreatment at the hands of their peers because evangelical Christian youth have an average GPA a full letter grade below their peers, with this trend being more common for those who are regularly harassed for being evangelical Christians because evangelical Christians are frequently denied housing and employment for being evangelical Christians because evangelical Christians are often subject to corrective rape in order to change their religious faith because evangelical Christians often see suicide as the only way out of their persecution Cry me a goddamn river.

Curious

Curious

 

Week 7 March 16-22, 2013 Sincerity Winner ~ Dinaberries

Congratulations Dinaberries dinaberries's post nominated by B5SnowDog, Gertie and GiggleofGirls Doggie said: I am saying I doubt they will repeat it as it did not get them off. they did it for the lark of it not because they wanted an orgasm. I am not condoning what they did was ok I am saying that I doubt they will repeat it as it was more of a thrill then a sexual satisfaction thing. Dinaberries said: Doggie, you are a fucking idiot and I am going to venture to call you a rape apologist. I'm not surprised after spending years reading your sexist posts, not saying anything because I was afraid to since you generally are let off easy here. But I don't care anymore. Even if people swoop in to defend you and I get my hand slapped, I don't care. I need to say this. People like you are the problem, the reason why we live in a rape culture. I get that you're a product of it too, but you obviously don't care to change. A young girl was violated and had her life forever changed. She will bear the burden of living with her trauma for the rest of her life. She was violated, urinated on, mocked, treated as if she had no worth, has received death threats, had her character dragged through the mud by adults and former friends, had her name released by the media, and has had to put up with journalists and regular people like you downplaying what happened to her and openly expressing pity for HER RAPISTS. And you say that they "just" put their fingers in her, like it ain't no thang. She may never be able to trust another human being again or be able to function. Whatever her dreams were, she may never be able to achieve them because if what happened to her that night, and what she has had to go through in the aftermath. I believe wholeheartedly that these boys will offend again. I hope that they don't, but I believe they will. When you get to the age of 16 and you have so little empathy that you will treat another being, especially one in a vulnerable state, in such a way, I believe there is no hope for you to change. I think they are sociopaths. They have absolutely no remorse for what they did to this girl. All of their tears are for themselves. Even the apology wasn't saying sorry for raping her, but for posting evidence of it online. They are only sorry they got caught. They will do it again if they can get away with it. And sadly, I fear they will be able to get away with it next time. All they learned from this is how to avoid getting caught. I find it extremely disturbing that you think that since they didn't "get off" (and believe me, they got off in a power trip sort of way), that you doubt they will offend again, as if rape is about sexual satisfaction and not about the feeling of power a rapist gets when they violate someone who is more vulnerable than they are. This wasn't about sex. This was about degrading this young woman. Again, if you (general you) are the kind of person who thinks its fun on a "lark" and gets a "thrill" out of violating another living being in that way, and then feel no guilt and go on to mock your victim publicly, you're probably a sociopath who will strike again. Why do I have to explain all of this to a middle aged man who is the father of a young girl?  Oh right, because we live in a patriarchal rape culture where men have the privilege of not having to think about these things. It's a shame that somewhere between posting links to articles about "slutty" 16 year old girls and making sexual comments to female posters, that you haven't been able to soak up any of the feminist thought. Oh, and rape isn't sex. Rape is rape.

Curious

Curious



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