WBC in the Topeka religious community

[MamaJunebug]

How should the religious communities of Topeka, Kansas, respond to Westboro Baptist Church? For newbies, WBC is the all-law, NO-gospel organization that has gained publicity for itself protesting at the funerals of people tragically killed in the line of military duty, car accidents and now, murder-suicides (the Josh Powell travesty).

 

A basic Bing search for "Topeka churches comment on Westboro" turned up nothing, so I searched for unitarian universalist topeka and found that their local UU church has a creative response to WBC as part of its social justice efforts:

 

http://millionfagmarch.com/

 

As I get time I'm going to keep researching this, would love if others did the same.

 

Here's a question, for the religious and secular among us: What responsibility has a religious or secular society for commenting on WBC or organizations like it? If they should comment / condemn, what form should those comments / condemnations take?

 

I'm srsly curious about what people think, and about how organizations have responded and are responding.

[starfish]

They should denounce them at every opportunity, but I've heard they don't for two reasons: 1) they don't want to invoke their wrath and 2) they are afraid their congregation with equate any denouncement with support for gays.

[Sunnichick31]

It's so sad that no one is denouncing them. I don't think it would do much good though. WBC would just start screaming about how every other church is evil blah blah blah. I do think that even though no one has been condemning them, most people do realize that WBS is bat shit crazy.

[lilwriter85]

I have noticed that none of the religious communities in Topeka have never commented on WBC. But WBC really got slammed by the mayor of Topeka a few years back. The WBC came here to New Mexico to picket at a soldier's funeral and the mayor of Topeka called the mayor of the city that WBC was picketing in. The Topeka mayor said that WBC was an embarrassment to Topeka.

[koolmom]

Suffice to say, I think Topeka's churches might have tried in the past, but were probably slapped with so many lawsuits against them and/or harassments by the WBC, that they all decided the best defense is NO defense and choose to "co-exist" along with the loons.

[Guest Anonymous]

I personally think they should leave them alone. Talking about them or denouncing them in any way will only fuel their fires.

[cerealsara]

I have lived in Topeka for four years (before that I lived in Lawrence, a nearby community) and my husband has lived here all his life. The current church we attend is picketed roughly every other month. The previous church we attended is picketed almost every Sunday. (I think this has more to to with location, as the previous church is at a highly visible intersection).

The general consensus seems to be that we should ignore their protests. You have remember that they have been picketing in Topeka since 1991. For over twenty years, we have dealt with their negativity and scorn. It wears on you. In the early years, churches banded together to denounce WBC's actions. Now, I think we are tired. They have also become so much a part of the landscape of Topeka that many of us don't even look at them any more as we pass them on the street corner.

Interestingly enough, it seems they only picket churches that allow female pastors (with the exception of Catholic Churches which they also picket). If you go to a more fundamentalist church, you are left alone.

They are a part of my community, and they are here to stay. We know they are wrong, but they are very litigious and it is difficult to do anything to stop them. We denounce them from the pulpit and it is understood that they are delusional. Other than that, most Topeka churches are just working to do as much good as possible.

[MamaJunebug]

Cerealsara, thank you for the perspective of one who actually lives there.

I personally also like the ideas of being publically quiet on them to deny them the attention they crave.

I have lived in Topeka for four years (before that I lived in Lawrence, a nearby community) and my husband has lived here all his life. The current church we attend is picketed roughly every other month. The previous church we attended is picketed almost every Sunday. (I think this has more to to with location, as the previous church is at a highly visible intersection).

The general consensus seems to be that we should ignore their protests. You have remember that they have been picketing in Topeka since 1991. For over twenty years, we have dealt with their negativity and scorn. It wears on you. In the early years, churches banded together to denounce WBC's actions. Now, I think we are tired. They have also become so much a part of the landscape of Topeka that many of us don't even look at them any more as we pass them on the street corner.

Interestingly enough, it seems they only picket churches that allow female pastors (with the exception of Catholic Churches which they also picket). If you go to a more fundamentalist church, you are left alone.

They are a part of my community, and they are here to stay. We know they are wrong, but they are very litigious and it is difficult to do anything to stop them. We denounce them from the pulpit and it is understood that they are delusional. Other than that, most Topeka churches are just working to do as much good as possible.

[SoybeanQueen]

I have worked in Topeka before at a business that was the subject of WBC attacks. My parents live there. I agree wholeheartedly with the previous poster. For everyone else, WBC is an occasional news blurb. If you've been around Topeka for long, they're a constant fixture. For decades now. One can only do so much for so long with no change, you know? No one likes them, but attention is exactly what they want, so it's better in the long run not to feed the trolls.

Also, I don't think any rational person considers them to be in any way applicable to the religious community of Topeka. It's like expecting the churches of NYC to crack down on the mentally unstable street "preachers."

[Almost Quiverfull]

I use to live in a small community in between Topeka and Lawrence. My husband worked in Topeka. This was the early 90s when WBC was first beginning their "God Hates Fags" campaign. We only had one car at the time and so a couple of mornings a week I would take my husband to his office and then go work out at the Y or go shopping. Every afternoon when I went back to pick him up Phelps and his gang were at the corner across from the capital building. We attended a fundy lite church right outside of Topeka and WBC was a hot topic. Mainly because Fred Phelps for several years prior to that had been on a hate filled campaign of sending vile faxes and generally attacking everyone who ever tried to stand up to him. One lady in our church worked at some office in Topeka and she said F.P. send a fax to her boss every single day. I can't remember what it was this man did to bring about Phelps' campaign of hate against him. There was another lady in the church who had a nephew who was a judge. When he passed away the WBC gang picketed his funeral. At the time I think most of the people felt Phelps was just a nuisance who gave genuine Christians a bad name.

FYI in case you haven't read it, there's an expose' of Fred online. His two oldest sons, Mark and Nathan (escapees from the Phelps compound) were interviewed extensively. It's very long, but well worth the read. Google Fred Phelps expose'. I'm pretty sure it's still available. Nathan is now an advocate for gays and for people escaping extreme fundy backgrounds. At the time of the interview he was active in a church, but now says he has lost his faith and is an atheist.

[1004srs]

THey are just a nuisance. Everyone ignores them. They have the tendancy to be litigious anytime anyone stands up against them. Most churches had rather use their resources to help others than in lawsuits against a family of lawyers.

If you hire the Phelps Law Firm to represent you for anything, btw, you are looked down on.

They protest in front of my church every so often. Singing hateful songs and holding signs. We ignore them unless they trespass, then the police are called.

When The Magic Schoolbus was performing in Lawrence at the Leid Center a few years ago, they had volunteers exscort us in so that WBC wouldn't bother us.

[fakepigtails73]

Yeah a lot of them Phelps are lawyers...

hence why they bring lawsuits to all that cross them. The costs for them are minimal.

[teddybear]

I can remember back when the Phelps first started their protesting, a little over 20 years ago. Back then it was just the queers they protested, especially the dead ones they assumed had died from AIDS. The local churches did respond a little bit, which was why Fred and Co. started to protest many local churches, especially St. David's Episcopal, as the priest there at the time made a big fuss about them. They also hit First Methodist, a couple of Lutheran churches and one Catholic parish if I remember correctly. But churches quickly learned that to say anything about them, got you targeted for protesting, so most of them didn't say anything. Also, in time, people learned that the best way to handle the Phelps was just to ignore them. I still think that if everyone did that, they would go away. They feed on attention and notoriety. And, like noted above, they love to sue. That is how they make their money and why Fred got disbarred, from filing frivolous suits and making money off people settling instead of allowing things to go to court.

Although they did do one thing. Their protesting did change some minds where gay issues are concerned. A friend of mine was organist at a Topeka Presbyterian church when the Phelps started their protests. He recounted how the pastor not been outspoken against gay rights until the Phelps started up, but seeing their hatred and being so disgusted by it, it forced him to reconsider his own homophobic thoughts. He even had the balls to speak from the pulpit about it! And I have heard of others commenting about pretty much the same thing. The Phelps put a face on hatred and people see it and it makes them think.

Speaking of Phelps, I saw them this afternoon when I was out grocery shopping. First time I've seen them in ages. They were protesting in their first and favorite spot, the corner of 10th and Gage, on the corner of Gage Park. They are just as disgusting and freakish as ever! Unfortunately, they put Topeka on the map for folks all around the world. Sigh... I wish they would just go away.

[Juliakitty]

FYI in case you haven't read it, there's an expose' of Fred online. His two oldest sons, Mark and Nathan (escapees from the Phelps compound) were interviewed extensively. It's very long, but well worth the read. Google Fred Phelps expose'. I'm pretty sure it's still available. Nathan is now an advocate for gays and for people escaping extreme fundy backgrounds. At the time of the interview he was active in a church, but now says he has lost his faith and is an atheist.

They aren't his two oldest--Mark is the second-oldest and Nate is younger than he is--but it's called Addicted to Hate and it's very, very, very informative.

[Almost Quiverfull]

They aren't his two oldest--Mark is the second-oldest and Nate is younger than he is--but it's called Addicted to Hate and it's very, very, very informative.

Oh yeah, you're right - my bad. I was typing mindlessly and now that you mention it I knew that Mark and Nate were not the 2 oldest. Anyway, you're right. The article is extremely informative and really helps you see into the mind of Phelps. My heart aches for those 13 children who grew up in that home. Mark tells of a time when he wanted his hair to grow a little because the style for boys was long hair. His father shaved his head. When he went to school he kept his cap on and his teacher told him to take it off. When she saw his shaved head she very quietly said, "On second thought you can keep your cap on." The school officials had questioned the boys because of bruises and were ready to investigate Fred for child abuse. However, he had a reputation for being litigious and the school backed down. How sad!

Right before we moved away from the Topeka area I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Phuck Phred." Very good sentiments if you ask me.

[Elle]

I think they are abusing religious freedom and the first amendment. Freedom of speech should not be protected when it is being used to intentionally hurt people. I couldn't talk to my daughter like they're allowed to scream at people. If I said things half as bad to her, I'd be deemed emotionally abusive and would lose custody.

[SoybeanQueen]

We used to get the weird faxes! I was working at a floral industry magazine at the time. I suppose they thought "florists are gay" or something? Like most of what they say, the faxes rarely made sense. Lots of crudely drawn cartoons that were supposed to be local politicians or community workers. I remember one accused the sheriff of wearing women's underwear. Not sure why we needed to know that, but OK.

They were at my college graduation. I also was on a plane with Shirley and some of the other nutters once, from KC to NYC. They were pretty busy at baggage claim, picking up their giant sign holders. Too bad the airline didn't lose those.

My closest connection, though, is that I knew one of the Phelps grandsons when I was in college. He was a grad student at the same college. I met him first in an IRC chat room, and he sent me a message that said "does your mother know you're a pervert?" I told him I was not a pervert, tyvm, but I had friends who were, and I was online looking for them. Then he asked me what I thought of Fred. I told him. With brutal honesty. He responded, "that isn't very nice. That's my grandfather." We met up to chat a few times. I was fascinated by the ease with which he could go from normal-sounding to spouting the hatred the family is known for. He was totally brainwashed into it. He came to my sorority house once and fixed my computer. This was the one who used his computer skills to create the God Hates... website. He would email me Bible verses, twisted around to mean what he wanted them to, and expressed deep concern for me because I went to bars occasionally.