Midwestern Bible/Baptist College

[InkyGirl]

I was stalking people I went to high school with on Facebook and found an old friend. She's my age and apparently went to Mid Western Bible College. She doesn't get on much so I can't glean much fundie-wise. She's married and has 2 little boys. I went to the MBC website and didn't get much except KJV ONLY!!!ELEVENTY!11!!

Anyone heard of the place?

[apple1]

It is a tiny (maybe grand total of 35-40 students) Bible college in Pontiac, Michigan. Very very conservative.

It really has always been mostly a seminary intended to train ministers, with a side helping of training missionaries/Christian workers.

It was conservative, but less so, during the many years it was administered by the original founder, now deceased. The original founder was actually a good man, lived what he preached, even if you might disagree with some of his beliefs. (I personally highly respected the original founder). Not sure I can say the same for the current administration. The student body in earlier years, although never large, was probably about 10 times the size of the current student body.

My father is a graduate.

[Brainsample]

Are you sure that it wasn't Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, MO?

That's where i spoke for EMNR (Evangelical Ministries to New Religions) and got into trouble because I named names and called certain doctrines questionable. That Jhan Muscowitz said that I embarrassed the seminary because Phil Johnson, the president of MBTS is on the board of EMNR (the group that invited me to speak). MBTS and other seminaries give the group use of the facilities for free. It wouldn't have been so frustrating for me if I had not offered twice, well in advance of the conference, to drop the names and other potentially sensitive material from the talk. I guess you're free to say whatever you want an an EMNR event, so long as you don't kick over any sacred Baptist cows.

First off, this is not a solicitation for a debate regarding whether or not there is such a thing as sin. I know that there are many people here of different beliefs. And it is not meant as an insult to those who follow Catholicism. I talked at a Baptist college to students and conference attendees regarding accepted beliefs. Traditional Evangelical and Baptist belief systems maintain that there is such a thing as sin. There is also a long history of struggle over whether one needs a priest to give you forgiveness of sins, and Protestants are so named because they protested this and a few other beliefs and practices. This is just a statement of the disturbing belief among a few students that I encountered at Midwest Baptist Theological Seminary (which trains undergrads), a school abbreviated as MBTS in Kansas City.

If it is that school in Kansas City...

The thing that shocked me the most was when I finished, several male students came up to me to ask me how I explained their spiritual responsibility for their wives. I stated, in the most negative terms, that patriarchy implied if not expressly stated that women needed a male intercessor spiritually and had to have a male govern their sanctification. As Protestants, male and female go directly in prayer to the throne of grace and need no intercessor be it "male head" (father or husband) or priest (who at least used to give absolution after meritorious work like saying a "Hail, Mary"). If I recall, I think that I stated that this believe was probably the most widely held belief defining patriarchy under the concept of "male headship." I also stated that the group was not monolithic as a belief, consisting of a wide variety of denominational folks holding a set of common and interrelated beliefs, but largely followed homeschooling. Anyway...

These young male students stated that they would stand before a Holy God to make intercession and to bear their wife's sin. Since I'd so emphatically cast this idea of a husband interceding for a wife as NOT evangelical, they wanted to know just what they would do before the bema seat and/or the great white throne judgment(where mankind is supposed to stand to face God and have all their sins exposed and evaluated -- separate from salvation and long after the rapture and all that stuff). I asked one of these guys (in their 20s) if they also were sinless and hung on their own cross to make intercession for their wife. (How can stinking sinful flesh make another person holy when they also need an intercessor for the same purpose.) They stood there like deer in headlights. I said that they would give an account for how they behaved which may involve making sin easier for their wives or by encouraging others to sin somehow, but their wife alone would have to stand and be accountable for her own sins. I was pretty shocked.

If you friend does go to school in Kansas City, there is at least some number of male students who were indoctrinated somewhere that they govern the ongoing salvation process (that word in Greek that talks about getting saved is a multi-tense word so it is an ongoing process) and the sanctification process -- a misogynous doctrine developed from a misinterpretation of Ephesians 5:25-27 about how husbands should love their wives. Paul says for men to love their wives as Christ loves the church which involves washing with the Word of God and dying, but then it goes on to say what this looks like for mortal men and their wives. The man is supposed to care for his wife as if his wife was a part of his own body. You wouldn't beat your arm, cut it off, not share your blood supply (human needs) with it, etc.. So make sure you don't deprive your wife of the same care with which you care for yourself. But for men looking to lord it over women, they misinterpret that verse to mean that it is the husband that does the saving of the soul of their wife.

I was deeply troubled, and I shared this with a reporter, and it ended up in Ethics Daily. Those young guys learned that weirdo doctrine somewhere (sounds like Doug Phillips and Phil Lancaster). My semi-rhetorical question about it out of my utter shock that a Baptist would believe such a thing was whether these kids learned this junk at the Baptist college. ??? Did their mothers teach them this stuff? Pastors at home? Or did the school teach this stuff? This is not a traditional, evangelical belief and is definitely not a Baptist one. But I guess that it is now.

Anyway, hope your friend is not going to MBTS where you likely get a fine education, but there is a strongly patriarchal contingent. And I get the impression that they are not Calvinists, because Voddie once claimed on his blog that his enemies at MBTS ordered me to do that lecture because they hated his book because it was Calvinist.

[sparrow]

If you want to see a college that's even creepier, check out Hyles-Anderson. They have classes in Christian Ladies' Attitude and Appearance and you can major in being a Missionary's wife. Skirts are mandated. And I saw an interview with a H/A dropout who claimed that she got in trouble for things like being caught outside her dorm with wet hair.

[apple1]

@ brainsample-

No, I was talking about a different Midwestern BC. Sorry for the confusion.

[misslady]

If you want to see a college that's even creepier, check out Hyles-Anderson. They have classes in Christian Ladies' Attitude and Appearance and you can major in being a Missionary's wife. Skirts are mandated. And I saw an interview with a H/A dropout who claimed that she got in trouble for things like being caught outside her dorm with wet hair.

OK, I looked it up. For serious, you can take Crockpot Cooking. They have 4 sections of an English course called "Spelling". Other course offerings include "Sewing Children's Clothes", "Let's Go Soul-Winning", "Countries Without Christ I" (I guess II is in the spring?) and "Lady Bus Worker", whatever that is. Wow.

[1004srs]

Baptist Bible COllege in SPringfield, MO has degrees that only men can take and the same for women's degrees.

[jaelh]

OK, I looked it up. For serious, you can take Crockpot Cooking. They have 4 sections of an English course called "Spelling". Other course offerings include "Sewing Children's Clothes", "Let's Go Soul-Winning", "Countries Without Christ I" (I guess II is in the spring?) and "Lady Bus Worker", whatever that is. Wow.

if you look at the teachers profiles:

hylesanderson.edu/files/2010_2011_catalog.pdf

Many of them seem to have bus-driving/bus-captaining/bus-worker/bus-ministry experience.

Whatever that is, indeed.

[Jinger_Cat]

Can someone please explain: What IS a bus ministry?

I see references to them all the time, but I don't get it....

[Kaylee]

The bus ministry is big in certain strains of IFB-dom. They take buses and drive around to "underprivileged" neighborhoods to pick up kids and bring them to church. It is a central "ministry" at Hyles-Anderson, and fulfills the requirement to go "soul-winning". In theory, the purpose is to give people who wouldn't have a chance to go to church or get saved that opportunity by providing transportation, in practice it seems like the real reason is so they can brag about the numbers - church attendance, baptism, people repeating a prayer and claiming to have gotten saved. If you're not a bus worker, or not as crazy committed to it as some of the others, they make you feel like shit, and you can get demerits for not doing it enough.

And yeah, some of the rules are crazy. You can get in trouble for wet hair, socks in stead of hose (one I was constantly getting written up for), and attitude which seemed to be anything. Should have known though, the application itself is very short on academic question and includes things like asking if you have ever drank, smoker, danced, or gone to a movie, and how long it's been since you've done all those, as well as several questions on your salvation, church, Christian experience, etc, and the one essay question is about your personal testimony, plans, etc. They call your pastor to check up on you and see if you go "soul winning", dress modestly, watch movies or tv, etc. It is also unaccredited so, even if you get a degree, it is useless for employment outside of certain fundie circles and for transfers to a normal college.

I spent close to 3 semesters working toward an A.S. in Marriage & Motherhood, and nothing transferred when we moved and I enrolled in one of those evul state colleges. Actually, most of the homemaking courses were useful, except for some of the things taught about childrearing. The academics, at least for that track, left a lot to be desired, and the few Bible and theology type courses I took were very shallow. As crazy as some of the rules, and many of the people, at HA were, there were several teachers and many students who really did want to help people and seemed to believe they were doing the right thing so I feel sort of bad about criticizing the school as a whole even though there are some major flaws.

[justlurking]

I really can't believe anyone seriously put into print the things that are in that Hyles Anderson catalog. For instance, here are some of the "ministries" which HA students can become involved in:

-Soul-winning visitation (sounds like something the devil would do before challenging you to a fiddle contest)

-Work with the Educable slow (seriously?! You'd think a college handbook would be a little more professional and use the technical term for "slow" in its catalog)

-Truck Stop Ministry (won't the students be defrauded by the naked lady figures on the trucker's mud flaps?)

-Sailor Ministry (how many sailors can one find in a mid-western state like Indiana?)

-Responsibility USA (what the hell is this?)

-Phoster Club (say what?!)

[Brainsample]

I live a few miles away from this place. I guess they started out in Pontiac, but they moved out of the crack house district and up into the nice burbs, a few tenths of a mile north of the big Great Lakes Crossings outlet mall. (You don't want to be in Pontiac -- any further east of Telegraph Road or much further west of Opdyke Road-- after the sun goes down. Not unless you're buying heroin or something, or you work at the hospital downtown.)

The school is on the campus of an IFB church and is a ministry of that church. I was "Director of Research and Development" of one of these kinds of schools that grant religious degrees only. They apparently have a small dorm, offering prices for full time students. I wonder if they pay the staff or if it is all retirees and stuff or assistant pastors teaching there? The college that I worked with didn't pay anyone but the registrar, hired gun teachers, and the president. It was all ministry, and people pledged monthly donations to help support the hired staff. It was a nice thing to be a part of for the time before we realized how cultic the doctrine was. It's nice if there are preachers that never were able to go to school but could go back and get training, or for lay people who just wanted to do more serious Bible Study.

This school has to be a pretty small operation, but it looks like they have instructors enough to keep a student busy. I wonder if they share staff with a Christian School, too? One of the classes on the schedule was "Bells" for the music teacher. I don't know that I'd want a 3 credit course in "Bells" on my transcript!!! They may allow overlap with their private Christian high school or may share instructors. That's what I'd do.

The church's site is here:

shalombaptistchurch.com/

[Kaylee]

-Responsibility USA (what the hell is this?)

-Phoster Club (say what?!)

Responsibility USA is sort of a teen mentoring (funny, I just typed monitoring instead of mentoring, Freudian slip much?) thing. Think "big brothers, big sisters" if run by fundies.

Phoster Club is a group/class to teach church ladies to be "soulwinners" or to witness as most people call it. I think the course materials are published and sold by HAC, but not 100% sure. A bunch of women get together for classes in things like "witnessing to other religions" or other things that may come up and then go around knocking on people's doors or passing out tracts at the mall or on the street to try to convert people or invite them to church. Some IFB churches have the program as well, we did for a little while, but I was the only one involved other than relatives of the pastor, Sunday school teachers, and the wife of an evangelist who was home for a whil (what can I say, I drank a lot of the Kool-Aid).

[misslady]

One of the classes on the schedule was "Bells" for the music teacher. I don't know that I'd want a 3 credit course in "Bells" on my transcript!!!

Hey, handbells can be surprisingly difficult . . . I play the bass bells 'cause I can't get the hang of playing 6 of the bitty ones at a time. Not entirely useless for a music minister, regardless of accreditation. :)

[LIzzieB]

LOL - I am into handbells big time... I run an adult ensemble, teach three kids' ensembles and have travelled the world with it. It's an incredibly difficult instrument to master but very rewarding. That said, most people only experience the bell ensemble at their church which could be of variable quality...

A total tangent but had to get in and defend my instrument! :)

[synchroswimr]

I love handbells!

[Brainsample]

I know how tough bells can be and have played them. It just stood out on the day schedule. All of the bell choirs I know of or have been in trained in the evening, and "Bells" didn't exactly fit in with the other listings on the schedule. It just seemed odd, and I don't think it's something typically listed on someone's transcript.

[emmiedahl]

We have two different bus ministries that come to my apartment building because we are THAT underprivileged. Two different churches are fighting for our heathen souls! OMG!

Anyway, they pick up the kids Sunday morning and three hours later they come back. The ones that go to the IFB church come back telling everyone that they are going to Hell, and the ones that go to the upper-middle-class evangelical church come back with prizes. My kids go to neither (of course) but I am always kinda surprised that anyone goes to the IFB one. Obviously the parents don't care or they would take the kids to church themselves--or ride the bus with them to church, I'm sure it's allowed although I have never seen it happen. And if I were a kid, Barbies would trump fire-and-brimstone any day.

[Childless]

Huh? How can H/A legally pick up minors and truck them off to church? Don't they have to get their legal guardians' permission in order to do that? If they picked up my kid without my ok, I'd have them charged with kidnapping.

[TheJewAmongUs]

Re: Hyles-Anderson

On the activities page they don't actually list a single activity, and there are no pictures. My Spidey sense started tingling. Here's a quote describing the "activities"

“Hyles-Anderson College provides a wide variety of activities. They are always exciting and diverse.â€

I looked up the girl who made the quote and found this: http://hylesanderson . edu/heather-tefft/

The things that jumped out at me were:

1. Listing your Pastor?

2. Your ministry is "Bus Route"?

3. Plans after school are, "Get married:) and follow my husband where ever God leads him."

Edit:

After checking out their available ministries I am shaking my head.

Deaf - There's a joke there, I'll leave it alone...

Phoster club - Mmm, Pho. Lunch tomorrow!

Sailor - Can girls do this one?

Street preaching - I see people shouting about religion on the street here. I also see the cops come by and check to see if they're taking their meds.

Truck stop - If I saw this I would be so tempted to comment about truck stop prostitution and "yer doin' it wrong."

[clarinetpower]

Yeah, but notice how many times she mentioned "dating". Jezebel!!!

[julie]

If you want to see a college that's even creepier, check out Hyles-Anderson. They have classes in Christian Ladies' Attitude and Appearance and you can major in being a Missionary's wife. Skirts are mandated. And I saw an interview with a H/A dropout who claimed that she got in trouble for things like being caught outside her dorm with wet hair.

AHHHH, they are so creepy. I was so creeped out (er intrigued) by their website, I pretended to be interested so that I could get a catalog. I'm pretty sure the admissions dude knew what I was doing when I couldn't even answer the "what church do you attend" question. I blogged about it: http://julieandthesilvermans.blogspot.c ... erics.html

and

http://julieandthesilvermans.blogspot.c ... uiter.html

:lol:

[TheJewAmongUs]

AHHHH, they are so creepy. I was so creeped out (er intrigued) by their website, I pretended to be interested so that I could get a catalog. I'm pretty sure the admissions dude knew what I was doing when I couldn't even answer the "what church do you attend" question. I blogged about it: http://julieandthesilvermans.blogspot.c ... erics.html

and

http://julieandthesilvermans.blogspot.c ... uiter.html

:lol:

I was wondering what kind of approval process I'd have to go through if I ordered a yearbook.

[nolongerIFBx]

-Sailor Ministry (how many sailors can one find in a mid-western state like Indiana?)

The sailor ministry is at Great Lakes Naval Base in IL. Crown Point, IN is not far from the IN/IL border.