Opus dei

[BloodyIbiza]

Does anyone have experiences/background with Opus Dei? Anyone " watches" any O.D. families? Blogs? Or, is O.D. just not on the fundie radar in North America?

[Buzzard]

Short of Mel Gibson I dont pay much attention to them. I know that Santorum has a mild affiliation (If theres such a thing).

[lizzy]

Short of Mel Gibson I dont pay much attention to them. I know that Santorum has a mild affiliation (If theres such a thing).

Mel Gibson is not Opus Dei

[Lillybee]

Justices Roberts, Thomas and Scalito are supposedly connected. http://www.mgr.org/OpusDeiInUSGovernment.html

[Buzzard]

Mel Gibson is not Opus Dei

I thought he was right before the passion of the christ. Then he went off on a drinking binge and got divorced etc. Off to google...

[Buzzard]

So confused now...

http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=7593

They say gibso, Scalia and thomas arent members...

[lizzy]

For those who are not aware, there are different levels of affiliation with Opus Dei.

Cooperators: These are laymen that perform low level service for the organization such as praying, charitable contribution, etc. There are no requirements for somebody to be a cooperator.

Supernumeraries: These are married men and women that devote a portion of their day to the Rule of Life of Opus Dei. This includes certain prayers, sponsored church meetings and retreats, and financial contribution. Probably the most notorious Opus Dei supernumerary was the spy, Robert Hanssen.

Numerary assistants: These are celibate female members of the organization. They adhere to a rigid rule of life and do not have jobs or live outside of Opus Dei centers. They do the cooking and cleaning around the centers.

Numeraries: These are male (rarely female) celibate lay members of the organization. They also adhere to a rigid rule of life and perform the day to day jobs of Opus Dei centers such as accounting, adminstration, etc. Those who do work outside the center will donate the bulk of their outside income to the organization.

Priests: These are men, ordained to the priesthood who fall under the jurisdiction of Opus Dei instead of the local bishop.

I believe Scalia is at most a cooperator. He attends one of their parishes outside of DC. He is known to be a more conservative catholic and Opus Dei parishes and schools tend to be on the more traditional, conservative side.

[Kishiria]

Mel Gibson is not Opus Dei. OD is only open to pope-loyal Catholics and was founded as a "personal prelature" of John Paul II, whatever that means. Mel Gibson and his family were schismatics; Mel built his own church, Holy Family, so that they could be the Catholic equivalent of FLDS.

This all ended with his drunkeness, adultery and divorce.

I've known one deacon in Montreal who was the spokesman for OD in Quebec for a while. When I met him he'd left the organization and refused to talk about it.

[lizzy]

I thought he was right before the passion of the christ. Then he went off on a drinking binge and got divorced etc. Off to google...

Mel is what is termed a traditionalist Catholic. He attends only the traditional Latin Mass. There are different flavors of traditionalist catholic (I am one for example...I attend only the Latin Mass, but I am not as far right as he his.) He was raised by his father who is what is termed a sedevacantist. A sedevacantist believes that the popes after Pius XII were manifest heretics and therefore were not true popes. Thought Mel has not publicly professed this belief, it is a reasonable conclusion that he harbors similar beliefs. He erected a private chapel in Malibu and has had independent priests come and say the Latin Mass there. This is absolutely against church law, btw, as the local bishop has the only authority to erect churches and assign priests. Then there is the issue of Mel's annulment. According to church law, in order for Mel to have married his russian mistress, he would have had to have is first marriage annulled. Normally this is done through the local bishop, but if I remember correctly, he had his father arrange it. In other words, it is worthless and in the eyes of the Catholic church he claims to profess, he is an adulterer.

[Cran]

I had spiritual direction from a member of the OD for some time and attended their meetings. Wasn't impressed at all, seemed to be intended for people with not-so-good catechesis and rather simple minds.

I was especially surprised because they have an air of catering to the "elite", whatever that is, but I only got to see talks for the supernumeraries, and only for the women (gender separation once again).

[emmyfair]

I posted about this topic a while back - the thread has the same name. If you use the search option, you can read about my experience.

[StacyW]

Sorry, no personal experience, but FBI agent and spy Robert Hanssen was a member, and was creepily played by Chris Cooper in Breach (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401997/). He's in prison for life, but his daughter Susan (http://www.udallas.edu/viewfeatured/499 ... fellowship is a highly-regarded professor and is supposedly also a member.

[Lillybee]

Rick Santorum may have OP connections too.

[Brainsample]

I've done a teensy bit of work with some people that exited the SSPX movement which is somewhat similar. They have groups that are alive and well in the US, and there are very remarkable similarities to the whole patriarchy fundie thing on the Protestant side. One of the leaders in the bunch in Europe teaches something called Perennialism. Very similar to the QF movement and focused on piety. Beautiful, deep, well-educated people, but it's just like leaving life long Gothardism. The family stays in and to remain in contact, you have to put up with lots of triggers, especially early on. Then there's the depression, especially when you are young parent. You should be enjoying the fatigue caused purely by your kiddos' sleeplesss nights while teething and crouping and stuff, not grieving the loss of your passion and love of your religion. But there is no real ideal, is there.

Anyway, I'm assuming that the SSPX is quite similar to Opus Dei in many ways.

[lizzy]

I've done a teensy bit of work with some people that exited the SSPX movement which is somewhat similar. They have groups that are alive and well in the US, and there are very remarkable similarities to the whole patriarchy fundie thing on the Protestant side. One of the leaders in the bunch in Europe teaches something called Perennialism. Very similar to the QF movement and focused on piety. Beautiful, deep, well-educated people, but it's just like leaving life long Gothardism. The family stays in and to remain in contact, you have to put up with lots of triggers, especially early on. Then there's the depression, especially when you are young parent. You should be enjoying the fatigue caused purely by your kiddos' sleeplesss nights while teething and crouping and stuff, not grieving the loss of your passion and love of your religion. But there is no real ideal, is there.

Anyway, I'm assuming that the SSPX is quite similar to Opus Dei in many ways.

Culturally, yes, they are very similar. But if you ask most SSPX loyalists they will call Opus Dei a bunch of modernists!

[shangrila]

I have heard of them. Isn't it a secret society?

[Doomed Harlottt]

The only thing I really know about them is that they were extremely powerful in Franco's Spain. To be anyone in Franco's government, you had to be in the Opus Dei.

Wikipedia says that it became a personal prelature of John Paul II but it wasn't "founded" as such, as it first came into existence in the 1920s.

[lizzy]

The only thing I really know about them is that they were extremely powerful in Franco's Spain. To be anyone in Franco's government, you had to be in the Opus Dei.

Wikipedia says that it became a personal prelature of John Paul II but it wasn't "founded" as such, as it first came into existence in the 1920s.

All the personal prelature does is it gives them permission to operate outside the diocesan structure of the church. For example, if they want to start a church or a school, they do not need permission from the local bishop to do so. They have their own bishop, based out of Rome, I believe.

[Cran]

I have heard of them. Isn't it a secret society?

Not exactly. They give themselves a secretive air, because the closer members are often not allowed to speak about certain practices in the houses, and members are often estranged from their families, but they are a personal prelature of the Catholic church and have therefore statutes you can look at, for all it is worth, and are not exactly secret per se. You can visit their houses, members might identify themselves as members if they wish to do so and so on.

Although they are not in great favour with me personally, I take pity on them because Dan Brown made of them what he did.

On big difference to the SSPX is certainly that they put no special importance on celebrating the old mass, but are certainly conservative in their views.

[shangrila]

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I have been curious about them for a while.

[Eliowy]

If anyone ever has questions about Opus Dei i have worked for them as a maid for the past two years and would be happy to share info :D

[Cran]

Have you worked strictly as a hired maid, or have you been an “auxiliary numerary''?

If so, are you familiar with the book and allegations of Maria del Carmen Tapia, and what do you think of it?

[Eliowy]

I worked as a hired maid. They have a summer work program where they have high school students come and learn how to be "housekeepers" preparation for being a wife and mother i suppose. The first summer i only worked for 1 month (test period if they liked you, you could stay longer) And was sent home. Last summer i worked three months as a live in maid at the retreat center in MA. It was hard. The day started at 5am with Mass at 6am. Breakfast at 7:30am and an endless set of chores from then until 8pm or whenever we finished in the kitchen. I did read that book. i think that while some of it may be true not all of it applies to everyone in the group. I was paid a fare wage (the only reason i even signed up was because it'd be a full time job) and although i could not contact my parents and had no internet i managed ok with my cell phone (They didn't know) I guess my thoughts were the people at the center were sincere. Not hypocrites. I know them when i see them (we have allot at our church) So the honest efforts they did to please God was not annoying. The food was the best part of the deal. Delicious mexican/spanish food! Tres Leche cake made by margarita was the best! The rooms were small. Three other girls were there when i was there. There were about 5 other Numeraries that lived there. We could not talk to them or the priests (could not even be in the same room) And about 15 assistant numeraries. Any other info you'd like to know? :D

[meda]

Why couldn't you speak to the priests or nummy watsits? What if you had a medical emergency or your family had an emergency? Would you have been allowed contact?

[debrand]

Why couldn't you speak to your parents? Did you have to be religious to be a maid or could they have hired an atheist to work for them?