In non-biblical terms, what is a Witch?

[finleeport]

For those of us who were raised fundie or fundie-lite, we were taught that witches and witchcraft is often associated with Satanism. From what I read in the bible about witchcraft is mostly from the Witch of Endor, she was suppose to be some sort of necromancer?

 

Anyways, what exactly is a Witch? Some think it is like Morgana Le Fay or Circe or the Wicked Witch of the West. But all the same the word usually means a malicious woman, or an old ugly woman, or commonly the magical woman who practices black magic (or sometimes a good magical woman).

 

Technically, has there ever been a proper definition of the term witch? what was/is a witch in historical non-Abrahamic religions/traditions?

[GatorGutCasserole]

This might sound funny, but in a way... always a person who's different from the rest of the herd. And the herd always wants to get rid of the odd ones. I mean it. It's some sort of an instinct to label the odd one and get rid of it somehow. I think it's pure biology they just give it different names, like 'lunatic', 'wicked' and so on.

[debrand]

I've read that the word, witch should be translated as poisoner but I don't know if that is true.

[celestial]

Nowadays, the most common definition of "witch" outside of Christianity is someone who practices Wicca, a neo-pagan religion that is not synonymous with "devil worship."

[finleeport]

I also wonder if magic/witchcraft (however its called) can also be used for ill-will or malicious intent? or is it just another demeaning stereotype made up by fundies?

[Eliowy]

Morgana Le Fay or Circe are actually sorceresses :) From what i understand the ancient term meant poisoner. Medieval ages it meant a women who used magic given to her by satan. A sorceress is someone who uses spirits to achieve magical ends they may or may not be satanic. I guess the term today is more applicable to the wiccan religion. Its not very nice though. Most wiccans i know prefer to be called pagan or self identify as such.

[anniebgood]

Black Magic = Evil (think the witch in Snow White)

White Magic = For Good.

I was asking my mom about women who seemed to be more in tune with nature and healing when she was growing up. She said she knew of several and they were revered in their little farm town. The women who knew what kind of natural poultices would help healing along, special tea brews and the like. I asked her if she thought they were witches and she said the one she knew best was descended from a family of healing women. If that was a kind of witch then she guessed she was. ( And my Mom's about as Christian as you can get.....liberal leaning Lutheran by marriage)

[finleeport]

Black Magic = Evil (think the witch in Snow White)

White Magic = For Good.

I was asking my mom about women who seemed to be more in tune with nature and healing when she was growing up. She said she knew of several and they were revered in their little farm town. The women who knew what kind of natural poultices would help healing along, special tea brews and the like. I asked her if she thought they were witches and she said the one she knew best was descended from a family of healing women. If that was a kind of witch then she guessed she was. ( And my Mom's about as Christian as you can get.....liberal leaning Lutheran by marriage)

But some Pagan articles I've read about said that magic is neither good nor evil, it is just gray and neutral.

[Guest Anonymous]

But some Pagan articles I've read about said that magic is neither good nor evil, it is just gray and neutral.

Isn't there a saying in the Pagan community about 2 Pagans = 3 opinions? I don't think you're ever going to get a consensus on something like that.

[valsa]

I also wonder if magic/witchcraft (however its called) can also be used for ill-will or malicious intent? or is it just another demeaning stereotype made up by fundies?

Magic/ witchcraft really doesn't exist in the Disney/Charmed/The Craft sense. "Spells" used by modern day witches/pagans are more in line with prayers used by Christians. So, just as a Christian could conceivably pray that God strike someone down, so could a witch put a malicious spell on someone. Although I’ve never known a pagan to put a malicious spell on anyone because, according to their belief system, they risk that ill-will being visited back on them.

Of course, as Lissar pointed out, paganism is very decentralized and there's never going to be anything they all agree about. I'm only speaking of the pagans/ witches I'm familiar with.

[ErinIsSik]

My husband, sister-in law, and I are all Pagan. While the whole 2 Pagans=3 opinions thing is very true, there are certain standards that fall as the very base of our religion. The first thing you learn when you even read about Pagans/Wiccans is the law of 3. Whatever you wish upon some one else is going to come back on you 3 fold, good or bad. This seems to be a truth that all the Pagans I have met believe, so even if some one is what you would consider "bad" or "evil", they will get that much more bad back at them.

[samurai_sarah]

:ugeek: For a truly mind-boggling historical definition, I suggest the "Witches' Hammer" or Malles Maleficarium, written in 1486 by Heinrich Kramer. It was written to counter the idea that witchcraft doesn't exist, and formed the basis of later continental European witch-hunts. Basically, it argues that the devil exists, women have sex with the devil, which allows them to use witchcraft, and that women are insatiable. Then, this "scientific" work describes "actual" cases and how to prosecute.

Sorry, I don't know too much about witches in non-Abrahamic cultures, but I always found it interesting how "witches" were treated in Celtic countries, like Ireland, Wales or the Scottish Highlands. Basically, there were very few witch-hunts, during the pan-European witch-craze. In Ireland, for example, historical documents made a distinction between "good" and "bad" magic. Charms and spells for good magic were actually written down by chroniclers, who were clergy. (If you want to read up on it - source: S. Duffy (2005) "Medieval Ireland: An Encyclopedia", Routledge: New York)

In Wales, "magic" wasn't connected to the devil, and could be either good or bad. While in Ireland, bad magic was a criminal matter, in Wales the best way to deal with a curse was to directly address the witch, and ask them to remove the curse. A priest could also reverse the curse. During the European witch-craze (1570- 1670), there were five executions that included Welsh people. Three of those executions took place in England. (See: Brian John (2001) "Witches and Wizards in Pembrookeshire", Greencroft Books)

The Scottish Highlands (not the Lowlands or Borders) reflect a similar picture. Magic was a part of every-day life, and being a "witch" or "charmer" didn't say anything about your moral character. It just meant that you had skills someone else didn't possess. (Can't find my sources for this one, at short notice, but if you're interested, I'll look.) The "Malleus Maleficarium" connected magic to the devil, and equated female sexuality with evil.

Sorry, I'm a history geek. :oops:

[marmalade]

The witch weighs more than a duck?

Sorry, it had to be said. :mrgreen:

[samurai_sarah]

The witch weighs more than a duck?

Sorry, it had to be said. :mrgreen:

You owe me a new keyboard. :D Thanks for reminding me of that!

[emmyfair]

The Wiccan Rede might be a good place to start, if you want to understand modern Wicca.

http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htm

[kunoichi66]

The Wiccan Rede might be a good place to start, if you want to understand modern Wicca.

http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htm

But just remember, and with apologies to ErinisSik, not all pagans believe in the rule of three.

I've read that the word, witch should be translated as poisoner but I don't know if that is true.

The one I've heard is that the word in the bible was originally 'poisoner', but that the people behind the inquisition changed it to 'witch' in order to give their mass murder biblical credence.

[ErinIsSik]

But just remember, and with apologies to ErinisSik, not all pagans believe in the rule of three.

The one I've heard is that the word in the bible was originally 'poisoner', but that the people behind the inquisition changed it to 'witch' in order to give their mass murder biblical credence.

No apologies needed, I know that not everyone holds the same things true.

[Alecto]

Not everyone who identifies as a witch or even practices witchcraft is Wiccan. There are people who practice witchcraft as a craft with very little religious meaning.

[ADoyle90815]

The witch weighs more than a duck?

Sorry, it had to be said. :mrgreen:

I have to admit I was also thinking of that.

[kunoichi66]

I'm glad not to have offended you, ErinisSik.

[Cran]

Not everyone who identifies as a witch or even practices witchcraft is Wiccan. There are people who practice witchcraft as a craft with very little religious meaning.

QFT.

I practice in this way, because I believe in the power of ritual, not in the power of any being/power behind it. Not pagan at all.

And I HAVE done rituals with the strongest intent to do harm. This would certainly classify as "black magic", but this black/white/grey stuff has no meaning to me because I believe good and bad to be no moral terms, but constructs of society, about whom I do not care.

But I wouldn't classify myself as a "witch", I don't know why, exactly, perhaps because there is a lot of baggage coming with that term, as said above, or perhaps because I think a witch has usually a more or less firm set of beliefs and is not erratic like me, and aligned with nature and all that, which I am not.

[celestial]

Hmm, thanks FJers, I learn something new every day here!

[simplysweet]

ME! No really, I am a practicing Pagan. What do you want to know?

[bea]

Oh, hey, I'm a witch who practices both Catholicism-based folk magick and Western Traditional ceremonial magick as well and am not even a LITTLE Pagan (well, maybe a tiny bit).

Ask two two witches, get nine answers. ;)

[muffynbear]

There are different types of witches, just like there different types of Christians or Jews for example. I'm from Massachusetts and we have a large population of witches. In the simplest of terms, a witch is someone who (usually) practices magick and is very in-tune with Mother Earth. They may do certain rituals that are Earth-based. I really don't want to stereotype all witches and say that they all believe in the same practices because they don't. Some witches may do spells which are like prayers. Many witches you see are often wearing black robes because black attracts the light. Some witches do read tarot cards, palms, or have psychic powers. They sometimes communicate with spirits or familiars. Practicing herbal and folk medicine is common. It is a very Earth-based religion with no association with the Devil. They do abide by the three-fold law. In other words, if you send out negative energy, you will receive it back x3.

I'm not a witch but I do some spells/rituals and I do tarot reading and palm reading.

This is the Official Witch of Salem, Laurie Cabot: http://www.lauriecabotdotcom/

I've met her once when I was in Salem. She's written quite a few books.

Also check out:http://www.salemtarot.com/witchfaq.html